The thing is, if we pass on a receiver at #25, we may not be able to get a high graded WR prospect in round 2, even at #44. Assume that Michael Crabtree and Jeremy Maclin are taken before #25. That leaves 5 guys who are ranked in the first tier of receivers: Darrius Heyward-Bey, Percy Harvin, Kenny Britt, Hakeem Nicks, and Brian Robiskie. Now, of these 5, I think we'd consider them all except Harvin. Harvin has an injury history, character concerns, and is too similar in his style of play to Ted Ginn. But, anyway, let's leave Harvin in the picture for now. And now let's look at the teams drafting between #25 and #44, and how many of them need a WR.

#26 Ravens- Derrick Mason is 35 and a free agent after this season.
#27 Colts- They have Wayne and Gonzalez, but need to replace Harrison.
#28 Eagles- They always need WR help.
#29 Giants- They need to replace Burress.
#30 Titans- They have a majorneed for a true #1 WR.
#32 Steelers- Not likely as they do have Limas Sweed to replace Washington, but Hines Ward is not getting any younger.
#35 Rams- Need to replace Torry Holt.
#36 Browns- With having traded Winslow and maybe trading Edwards, they need to add weapons to their passing game.
#38 Bengals- Need to replace TJ, and Ocho Cinco is getting old.
#39 Jaguars- Desperate need for multiple WR.
#40 Raiders- A big time need for them, and Al Davis loves speed.
#43 49ers- When the ancient Isaac Bruce leads your team catches, you have a need for a #1 WR.

That's 12 teams that have a need at WR. Now, one or two of those weaker teams could address the position in round 1 with Maclin or Crabtree. That leaves 10 or 11 teams between #25 and #44 that could be picking from at most 5 top WR candidates. If the run on WR starts late in round 1, we could easily be sitting there at #44 with no top WR prospects left on the board. The best case scenario would be that Brian Robiskie would last until #44, and even then, he's considered to have the least upside of the group and may never be better than a #2 WR. As much as Parcells may not want to take WR in round 1, we may not have much choice. There are plenty of good OLB candidates, and we'll be able to get one in round 2. The CB position in this draft is very weak, with all of the prospects having question marks. For that reason, it may be a reach to take any of them in round 1. Even at #56, we'll be able to get one of the better CB in this particular draft, because there simply isn't that much difference among them. Just because of suplly and demand, I can see us almost having to take a WR in round 1.

I agree that there will be a run on WR's in the first round. I project 7 to go in the top 40 picks.

In defense of Harvin....the "character concerns" stem from drug test rumors, not fact. No reports have been released. His work ethic and off field issues are not a problem to the best of my knowledge. I don't know of any off field problems.

But, he is not even close to Tedd Ginn with on field abilities. The only comparisons are that they are both fast and could have been compared in size a few years ago. Ted Ginn is 180 lbs and Harvin is now 205. That's 25 pounds difference. Harvin has ridiculous yac ability...Ginn, not so much. Harvin can take a short pass and take it the distance where Ginn needs the deep ball to make a long score. Harvin would be a great compliment to Pennington and Ginn IMO. Harvin compares more to Steve Smith than Ted Ginn.

Harvins injury problems....He was playing as a running back most of the time so injuries are to be expected. He has no major injuries. A high ankle sparin and a hairline fracture are the only ones of note and he passed the combine prod and poke test.

I have little concern about drafting Harvin but I would have reservations about a player like Vontae Davis, who's work ethic and maturity is in question.

Sean Smith and Darius Butler seem like the two most intriguing prospects at CB for the Dolphins. Butler was burned big time by Kenny Britt so who is more valuable at #25? The player who burned or got burned? I say Kenny Britt.

My draft value board for WR's is as follows....

worthy of pick 1-10

1 Michael Crabtree
2 Jermey Macklin
-----------------------------
pick 11-20
3 Percy Harvin
-----------------------------
pick 21-25
4a Kenny Britt
4b Hakeem Nicks
------------------------------
pick 26-32
5 Brian Robiskie

I would take a pass on Heyward-Bey. Too much of a boom or bust player.

My ideal first two picks would be

1 Britt/Nicks
2 Sean Smith/Butler

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

> NFL.com four fools all choose WR for 1st round.
> Mostly Britt. They're convinced, I'm not quite
> yet:...


It's as if these experts forget everything they know about Parcells. He lothes to take a receiver that high...it is well documented.

Our draft board is set positionally (horizontal). If we have players with an equal rank...we will select the player that can pressure the QB or hit someone in the mouth. This regime will not overpay for a skill player. They even waited patiently to select Henne in the bottom of the second round last year when they knew he could have gone alot higher.

I believe that this draft will still tilt heavily toward foundational players.

I think we are more likely to draft a receiver in the 5th round than in the 1st.

Johnny Knox WR 6-0, 185 Abilene Christian

Whats wrong with Ginn and Bess? I think we need to get a starter in the first round. Bess has proven himself as a solid starter. We loss a key corner and we were already weak at the Linebacker position.

Jim B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > NFL.com four fools all choose WR for 1st round.
>
> > Mostly Britt. They're convinced, I'm not quite
> > yet:...
>
>
> It's as if these experts forget everything they
> know about Parcells. He lothes to take a receiver
> that high...it is well documented.
>
> Our draft board is set positionally (horizontal).
> If we have players with an equal rank...we will
> select the player that can pressure the QB or hit
> someone in the mouth. This regime will not
> overpay for a skill player. They even waited
> patiently to select Henne in the bottom of the
> second round last year when they knew he could
> have gone alot higher.
>
> I believe that this draft will still tilt heavily
> toward foundational players.
>
> I think we are more likely to draft a receiver in
> the 5th round than in the 1st.
>
> Johnny Knox WR 6-0, 185 Abilene
> Christian


Well said. Jim B. I hope you are right.

Pat Kirwin...not a GM with Parcels, he was defensive assistant coach then dirrector of player administration where he negotiated contracts and managed the team's salary cap but I'm sure he knows BP well enough.

I don't think BP is set against taking a WR. It just depends on the WR and where he is picking.

He did not want Terry Glenn and contrary to popular believe he did not draft Keyshawn Johnson. I doubt he would ever take a receiver with pick 1 (KJ) or 7 (TG) but #25 is a whole different story. If the value is there and not at other positions, he will let Ireland take a WR.

it will be interesting to see who is available and who falls to us. 12 days left and we will find out!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I think we are more likely to draft a receiver in the 5th round than in the 1st.

Johnny Knox WR 6-0, 185 Abilene Christian


-------------JIM B------------ nice pick, from my mock right?

this is why i know we will be trading to aquire boldin, to adress our wr issue.

DaytonaDolfan13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think we are more likely to draft a receiver in
> the 5th round than in the 1st.
>
> Johnny Knox WR 6-0, 185 Abilene Christian
>
>
> -------------JIM B------------ nice pick, from my
> mock right?


We've shown an awful lot of interest in Knox. First we sent Karl Dorrell to work him out on campus, and then we brought him to Davie for a workout. But, he certainly doesn't profile as the physical WR we really need. I could actually see him being the 2nd WR we take in this draft. It would serve notice to Ted Ginn that he needs to step up. And there is no guarantee that Camarillo will be effective. He may not be able to start the season, and any loss of speed, quickness, or cutting ability could be disastrous for Camarillo. He doesn't have great physical gifts to start with, and as it was, he got very little separation from DBs. I know the staff likes Camarillo for his toughness and his heart, but this is a business. They won't hesitate to cut Camarillo or London if they are not among the 5 best WR on the roster. I also wonder if a trade of Ginn is a possibility. He has been a huge disappointment in the return game. He was hurt by penalties as a rookie, but last year he hurt himself by not being aggressive on kick returns.

Knox is moving up the draft boards. With the lack of talent at WR in this draft, he's got a good chance of going in round 4, or possibly even sneaking into late round 3.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ted Ginn is 180 lbs and
> Harvin is now 205. That's 25 pounds difference.

Harvin weighed 192 at the combine.

lol man the big tuna so good even got you guys thinking wr first round lol, is not going to happen. stop i please youll just be letting yourself down, we will be going defense first two picks which i hope we do, any fast person can become a decent wide out, and with our style of offense, a true wideout can wait. we need a much more agressive defense.I.E PITSBURG!!!!

We wont be trading for Anquan. When you go into the draft, you have to look at reality not just what could happen. As of right now we dont have Anquan Boldin so we have to prepare for the draft the same way. We may take a receiver. It wont be in the first round. We defintiely need to go defense. Our D-line, Linebacker and Secondary corps could use a starter.

RAMSES BARDEN = sleeper sleeping shhhhhhhh

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ted Ginn is 180 lbs and
> > Harvin is now 205. That's 25 pounds difference.
>
>
> Harvin weighed 192 at the combine.

He lost 13 lbs so he could run the 40. He said he played last year at 205 and plans to get back up to that weight.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

It seems the histroy of Parcells, 1st RD WR picks are pretty good, whether he wanted to do make them or not, Mark Ingrahm (Giants) and Terry Glenn (Cheatriots). His second Rd WR picks have been primarily bust, and guys you would not recognized if I mentioned. His third and fourth Rd picks are better agin with guys like Lavenes Coles. So based on History, if Parcells doesn't use a 1 st Rd on reciever, pray he doesn't use one in the second, becasue that is where his most bust WR picks were at the 2nd Rd. And hope he picks a gem or 2 around the third to sixth. This is all based on history obviously not specific to this draft or is it? WIth a late twenties picks he took Mark Ingrahm for the Giants, so if they do justify pick 25 a WR odds are, he will make it to the probowl. 2nd rd odds go back way back up he will be a bust and then 3 and 4 peak out again as solid players and then some hit and miss in the later rds. What do you choose? Its an odds game? IMO pick 25 or wait until 3rd or 4th to make a stab at WR.

It is such a tough call. An impact WR would really open things up for Ricky, Patrick and Ronnie, not to mention Ted Ginn.

On the other hand, we REALLY need help at CB. We face...

Brady and Moss twice a year
T.O. and Lee Evans twice a year
Matt Ryan & Roddy White
Peyton Manning and Reggie Wayne
Drew Brees and Co.
Andre Johnson AGAIN
and Ben Rothlisberger, Hines Ward and Santonio Holmes

That's 9 games right there. We have to get a CB but also need more pass rush.

It all comes down to value at 25. I think there is more at WR.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

all this thread proves is we need to TRADE DOWN. There are 5-10 players we would consider at 25, and no one is better than the other. Trade down 5-10 spots for another 3d or a 4th and 6th--I am sure someone will want to with us to get someone at 25 they really want (freeman, maybe oher if he falls or someone like that).

I think it's clear that CB is a major need. But, this is a terrible draft for corners. If we take a corner in round 1, we'll be reaching for one. Other than Malcolm Kelly, no corner carries a true first round grade. Davis would on talent, but his attitude and lack of dominance pushes him down to round 2. Butler has great speed and good feet, but is less than ideal size and played against inferior competition. And when he played against Kenny Britt, he struggled. All of the other top corners have questions about their speed or size. We'll be better off with a Sherrod Martin late in round 2 or in round 3. The first choice will come down to WR or OLB.