crowder you are one of the most positive fans on here, so if they've got you turning negative, you know the team has really screwed up!!

Phinjim Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys seem to get too personal to me about
> this. Its a business, not really room for
> embarassment.
>
> 1. Ross is a show person, but he had enough sense
> to get Philbin, and that's gonna work out fine.
>
> 2. Manning has the right to choose anywhere he
> wants to live. I'd say the Miami Media circus
> didn't help much ... chasing him around in
> helicoptors (whew). Likely a turnoff, but even
> that is something out of the Front Office
> control.
>
> 3. All the hype just had it wrong, in terms of
> what was improtant to Manning. What the heck,
> move on without acting like a scalded dog. Not
> the end of the world, and may end up being much
> smarter for the long term, cap wise and youth
> wise.
>
> 4. BTW I like what Ireland is doing with the rest
> of the team FAs, we've gotten better in a lot of
> areas while all this drama has played out.
>
> 5. Keep in mind that a new offensive scheme may do
> a whole lot for this offense, that Sparano never
> had the mindset to consider. Whether we get Flynn
> of not ... its gonna be alright! Even matt Moore
> will be better in this scheme.
>
> - I expect we do get himn, biut hope its for a
> decent price.


FINALLY!!

A voice of reason in a sea of chaos and insanity.

Thanks Jim. You have restored my faith in this board and in Dolphin fans once again.

At this point the negativity surrounding this franchise is like watching your favorite turd go down the toilet and there’s nothing you can do because the flush already happened. So if you want to know WHY anyone would avoid this franchise I’d start right there because the years of underperforming and failing have taken a huge toll on the fan base.

People want a winner and that’s just the bottom line. My concern is that we bring in a guy like Philbin who I believe could be an excellent architect but will he be given a fair chance to implement his plan? If not, then the flushing sound will just keep getting louder and louder…

BNF.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > when all is said and done I am glad we didn't
> get
> > manning. he was not what we needed, which is a
> > long term solution at the QB position. I'd
> rather
> > build for the future than go all in on a run
> now,
> > which likely wouldn't have panned out anyway.
> > After all of these crappy years, I want to
> follow
> > a team that can compete year in year out. If we
> > sign Flynn and he turns out to be a very good
> QB,
> > it's better than signing Manning for 2 years of
> > good play.
>
>
> I hear ya Berk, but then we shouldnt have chased
> him....

Yo got to kick the tires on every viable option when you don't have a franchise QB and you are looking for one. To do less than that is not doing your job.


> WHile we were chasing him the Redskins
> jumped up and got RG3... And we public lose out to
> another team again... THat type of thing is
> bad....

Only for some dolphin fans.

Going after Manning and NOT trading for RG3 are in no way connected.

The idea that we couldn't be in on both at the same time (as we were) or that one kept us from getting the other is an epic stretch.

We got out bid for RG3...plain and simple. Or are you suggesting that had Ireland not not been working on setting up a meeting with Manning that he would have remembered to pick up the phone and offer the Rams FOUR first round selections to secure the #2 pick???

Berk, I just have seen a pattern of management falling short since Ireland and Ross tookover.... Wayne wasnt perfect, but if Wayne wanted somebody as far as personel, he got him...... Still does, really....... These guys are in one of these time warps, where they believe there own bullshit and commend each others accomplishments, while the ship is sinking around them.... Ross and Ireland remind me of that Italian Capt, that ran his ship aground, while on the phone with another Captain, shwoing off to him... Then said the reason he had to abandon ship before others, was him and the top officers fell into the lifeboat as the ship listed and was forced to evacuate instead of taking responsbility for the mess....excuses excuses excuses....
maybe philbin is some genius and will bail them out, and Flynn, is the next coming of Joe Montana.......but if so why make him one of the last choices.....only blind luck will save us now...lol

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Only for some dolphin fans.
>
> Going after Manning and NOT trading for RG3 are in
> no way connected.
>
> The idea that we couldn't be in on both at the
> same time (as we were) or that one kept us from
> getting the other is an epic stretch.
>
> We got out bid for RG3...plain and simple. Or
> are you suggesting that had Ireland not not been
> working on setting up a meeting with Manning that
> he would have remembered to pick up the phone and
> offer the Rams FOUR first round selections to
> secure the #2 pick???


Nope I am suggesting that the Redskins pulled the trigger faster then us, while we were still enamored as one of the front runners for Manning... Ross wasnt going to let Ireland pull the trigger on RG3 until he knew he was out of the Manning sweepstakes... Redskins took advantage of that fact, and pounced on the rams deal before we were willing to committ... they knew what they were doing... If RG3 and or the rams pick were still available, there would be more suitors offering alot, including us, IMO..

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Only for some dolphin fans.
> >
> > Going after Manning and NOT trading for RG3 are
> in
> > no way connected.
> >
> > The idea that we couldn't be in on both at the
> > same time (as we were) or that one kept us from
> > getting the other is an epic stretch.
> >
> > We got out bid for RG3...plain and simple. Or
> > are you suggesting that had Ireland not not
> been
> > working on setting up a meeting with Manning
> that
> > he would have remembered to pick up the phone
> and
> > offer the Rams FOUR first round selections to
> > secure the #2 pick???
>
>
> Nope I am suggesting that the Redskins pulled the
> trigger faster then us, while we were still
> enamored as one of the front runners for
> Manning...

That implies that we were willing to offer more that the Redskins and that we were too slow to do it.

There is no way under the sun that we were giving up 4 1st round picks to beat their offer, assuming that is where the bidding ended.



> Ross wasnt going to let Ireland pull
> the trigger on RG3 until he knew he was out of the
> Manning sweepstakes...

Possible.

But that's the breaks. You rank your options and the prices you are willing to pay and you play your hand.

Even so, all reports are that we were in on RG3 right up till the bidding when through the roof.

THE Truth is most likely somewhere in the middle....that we would have gone after RG3 at a reasonable price, but were more than happy to let that option go with Manning and Flynn still in play.


> Redskins took advantage of
> that fact, and pounced on the rams deal before we
> were willing to committ... they knew what they
> were doing... If RG3 and or the rams pick were
> still available, there would be more suitors
> offering alot, including us, IMO..


So you are suggesting we'd have beaten their offer of 3 firsts and 1 second had we had more time to think about it or had been more desperate.

I disagree. I don't see any way in hell that Ireland trades 4 First round picks (or more) to move up for RG3.

When others teams are willing to do stupid shit in order to get their way there's not much you can do about it.

3 #1's + a #2 for one college prospect is just dumb IMO.

Basing your future on a 36 year old QB coming off 4 neck procedures after missing an entire season is Russian roulette IMO. If other teams are willing to give Peyton the franshise and set him up as OC QB and chief talent scout for the O then move on...

And last, if (???) we're determined Flynn is worth x amount of dallars based on his KNOWN skill set and someone else is willing to pay way more for his services then move on.

Acting otherwise on any of the 3 above is (a) desperation and (b) a sure fire way to drive the franchise further into the ground.

My opinion. Of course.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When others teams are willing to do stupid shit in
> order to get their way there's not much you can do
> about it.
>
> 3 #1's + a #2 for one college prospect is just
> dumb IMO.
>
> Basing your future on a 36 year old QB coming off
> 4 neck procedures after missing an entire season
> is Russian roulette IMO. If other teams are
> willing to give Peyton the franshise and set him
> up as OC QB and chief talent scout for the O then
> move on...
>
> And last, if (???) we're determined Flynn is worth
> x amount of dallars based on his KNOWN skill set
> and someone else is willing to pay way more for
> his services then move on.
>
> Acting otherwise on any of the 3 above is (a)
> desperation and (b) a sure fire way to drive the
> franchise further into the ground.
>
> My opinion. Of course.

Another voice of reason and (in)sanity out in the wilderness.

Perhaps there's more of us than I thought...

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What's embarrassing is us still sniffing at his
> Piss trail like we actually have a shot.
>
> Offerdahl, we shoul have signed Flynn on Monday
> and moved on.

WHY?????

The longer it takes MIAMI to sign FLYNN, the more I have to think that Coach PHILBIN isn't so certain about his being a "franchise QB".

FLYNN has always had it easy, so to speak. He played at LSU in college, and GB in the NFL. He had a lot of time to learn, practice w/his WRs etc..I wonder how well he would have done in MIAMI, w/no such learning curve/chance to develop timing and "chemistry" w/his WRs, an unready HC, the lingering stench of PARCELLSBALL, and the COLUMBO/CAREY farce guarding (ha!) his right side? With the SAME handicaps, MOORE was rated the 12th best QB in the NFL. And MIAMI found itself ranked in the top 5 teams for pass completions over 20 Yards. And deep passing was in play once again.

I wouldn't give ANYONE not named PEYTON MANNING "KOLB Money". That's IT! In fact, I might just surround MOORE w/a better OL and a weapon or 2 more. This year's Draft is very deep at WR. I'd actually consider moving up in the Draft...but not for LUCK/RGIII: for BLACKMON. Or maybe I'd just pounce on T RICHARDSON, and the best available WR in Rounds 2, 3, and 4. One of our 3rds would be reserved for that kid from Michigan State (d-r his name) or WEEDEN, if he falls to the 3rd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2012 11:10AM by LUDUPORCU.

I am not sure, what we were willing to pay, but I look at it this way... We have a number 8 so we arent moving up that far, I dont plan on being that close to the top 2 picks again. Trading up from 8 is alot easier then trading up from 20. So relative to our current position, and cost to land the number 2 pick and a player like RG3, the value was and is the best it is gonna get to go up to a number 2 and pick a heisman winning QB like him.... Well who knows what that is worth... After you fall on your face with Manning, and are probably in a horrible position with the fan base, you would be willing to pay more then you think, especially a guy like Ross with a losing franchise and declining business..

I also think our offer for the number 2 pick would have included a player, so it would have cost less picks... Trading for the RG3 is a constant a known, people werent trading for the number 2 pick they were trading for him. SO I think you had to trade a player to offset draft picks.. Make the rams fall in love with a player you had and then package the deal... You cant trade away all your future picks but you can, trade away a stud player.

And in another stroke of pure luck, the offer to Manning is now at 5 years 90 Mil..........Thank you Peyton Manning for eliminating us from contention.

So Skins get RG3 (who's never taken a snap in the pros), have little cap room for FA & have given up a ton of picks. Say we take the more prudent aproach of signing Flynn who has NFL experience and will cost $ but zilch in picks, I know which GM I'd rather have.

I would have asked them who they want, what players on our roster they would love to see in a rams uniform by training camp, and then worked from there.. I dont know who they valued...

A franchise QB changes everything.

If Flynn proves to be a turd, we need to trade the farm for the #1 pick next season.

It's all about the QB.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Make the rams fall in love with a player you had
> and then
> > package the deal... You cant trade away all
> your
> > future picks but you can, trade away a stud
> > player.
>
>
> Seriously?
>
> Make them fall in love with a player?
>
> Why not just make them fall in love with the 8th
> pick and just trade that for the 2nd pick?
>
> But that's beside the point...what's your deal?
> What package of player(s) and pick(s) would you
> consider to be better for St Louis, from their
> perspective (before you used your Jedi mind trick
> to "make" them take it), than the 3 #1's and #2
> they took from Washington?


LOL

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would have asked them who they want, what
> players on our roster they would love to see in a
> rams uniform by training camp, and then worked
> from there.. I dont know who they valued...


Hey, its not beyond the realm of possibility that you could make a deal like that, although its pretty rare in the NFL. Most teams like the picks so they can select their own guys.

Even so...what's your offer.

What package of picks and players do YOU think the Rams would believe to be better than what they got from the Redskins?

Vontae Davis
Jared Odrick
Mike Pouncey
Cameron Wake
Jake Long


Reluctantly I would have offered 2 of the first three and exchange picks
or 1 of the last 2 and exchange picks.

I would start in that realm... Maybe get a player from them in exchange to help compensate a position loss for us...

and maybe Marshall as a sweetener if need be and since we planned on moving him anyways...

didn t read the whole thread but i always believe d we were dead in the water with mannign because we are too much of a ? ...we have anew head coach and if i put myslef in mannigns shoes i would be reluctant..not saying philbin aint gonna work out or that this is the sole reason but i think it killed us before the game started and was always surprised no of the pundits spoke of it