I don't think we get even a 2d rounder back for him. He is more valuable to us than a 3d rounder, so I say keep him. Despite everything he is by far our best receiver.

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And while you're at it, name the last receiver we
> had who dropped that many TD passes.
>
>
>
> (edited to add two words I'd forgotten)

So what your really saying is, 1000 yds is good, 2000 would be better?

I agree, but saying he is useless is just wrong. 100% wrong and you know it.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And while you're at it, name the last receiver
> we
> > had who dropped that many TD passes.
> >
> >
> >
> > (edited to add two words I'd forgotten)
>
> So what your really saying is, 1000 yds is good,
> 2000 would be better?
>
> I agree, but saying he is useless is just wrong.
> 100% wrong and you know it.



I do know it... I also didn't say it. WHere the hell did I say he is useless?

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My stating that Marshall can't catch doesn't mean
> he doesn't catch. He can't catch when all the
> marbles are on the table, when things count the
> most. Albeit, he caught that long pass yesterday
> that Moore threw perfectly to him in stride, but
> overall, he misses way to many to be in the elite
> class of receiver that I've mentioned. Let's take
> another look.
>
> Do you think Marshall is as good as Paul Warfield?
> Warfield caught passes for over 1000 yards only
> once. As a Dolphin he got close once. Yet that
> guy made receptions when it counted. One of the
> greats a HOFamer. He was an A player, not a B or
> C player that was over achieving.
>
> Marshall's size and strength gives him a profound
> advantage over smaller CB and FS, yet they more
> often than not, are happy with their coverage
> because Marshall drops so many balls he should
> catch. Had he caught a few more passes it's
> foreseeable that the Dolphins might have a better
> winning record.
>
> Receiving yardage is just one thing figured into
> one's receiving ability, it not the only factor.
> Marshall needs to do better to prove he's a great
> player.


Have you noticed on fade routes how often Marshall never leaves the ground? On those red zone jump balls, he really seems to have a very difficult time planting his feet and elevating for the ball. For a guy who is 6'4, his height should be a great advantage, but he really has a hard time catching the ball at its highest point. In yesterday's game, tied 7-7, they threw a fade to him. He never left his feet, never raised his arms, just watched it go. Omar Kelly tweeted that the throw was 15 feet over his head. But, just watching the game again, and Drayton Florence jumped and got a pretty good piece of the ball with one hand. Marshall appears to have about 5 inches of a height advantage on Florence, and yet, he makes no attempt at all?

Trading or cutting Marshall creates a major void that needs to be filled. His yards per catch this year is by far the best of his career, making him more than the possession receiver he has always been. But, the real issue is that he makes almost $10M. He accounts for about 8% of the salary cap. For that kind of money, is it a smart football decision to pay a guy who seems to have a mental block when it comes to catching passes in the endzone, and who is perenially among the league leaders in dropped passes, and is one off field incident away from a year long suspension? Marshall is a large part of the offense, no doubt. But, it is really a question of the value he returns for the pay he gets. And that's where it gets dicey. Would he get that kind of money on the open market? At this point, it's very doubtful. So, why should the Dolphins pay that kind of money? A lot will depend on how the new coach feels about dealing with Marshall's diva mentality. Folks lament our red zone issues, but a fair amount of those issues are squarely on Marshall's back. He's dropped what, 7 red zone TD passes? If he makes those plays, the red zone issues are minor. And that is tough to swallow when the team is committing that much of the salary cap to him.

For me, I always compare guys to Mark Clayton. Clayton was small, but he was super tough, and he would not be denied near or in the endzone. He would outjump anyone for a ball, break tackles, whatever it took to get in the endzone. And he really excelled at getting the ball at it's highest point. Marshall is no Mark Clayton. On that first TD he dropped yesterday, he had his hands in the wrong position. Even Marshall himself has admitted that he has issues with this, and that play was a great example. He basically had his hands upside down, and that's why he couldn't secure the catch before the defender was able to tap it away so late. There is just no excuse for that.

JC Wrote:
>
> I do know it... I also didn't say it. WHere the
> hell did I say he is useless?


You don't agree with the OP? People here have implied he can not catch. You either agree or you don't. Stop playing games.

Treasure, "can't catch" is different from all of the following, 1) don't catch, 2) won't catch or 3) drops.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JC Wrote:
> >
> > I do know it... I also didn't say it. WHere
> the
> > hell did I say he is useless?
>
>
> You don't agree with the OP? People here have
> implied he can not catch. You either agree or you
> don't. Stop playing games.


So by your logic, he either is the greatest, peachiest, dandiest chap to ever have a ball thrown his way, or he is "useless?" No room for middle ground in your world?

Let me spell it out for you. In my opinion, He can't catch SOMETIMES....As in, when the ball hits him in both hands and he drops it. And that number of "Sometimes" is WAY TOO HIGH. Other times, he catches and gets great YAC. Bravo for those other times.

He needs to work on minimizing his drops. Is that so hard to understand? Yes, 1,000 yards is a good benchmark stat. Being near the lead for dropped passes is NOT a good stat. Dropping a touchdown pass that hits him in both hands is like missing a layup in basketball. Like missing an open net in hockey or soccer. Like missing a pop fly in baseball. It should happen ONLY RARELY.

He's similar to a running back who tops 1,000 yards rushing, but also fumbles often in the red zone and is among the league's leaders in turnovers.

Or, a quarterback who throws 300 yards per game, but his team can't win games because he's also among the league's leaders in throwing interceptions.

Good, talented player, playing well overall, but needs to improve a recurring deficiency in his skill set in order to reach the potential of his talent. Not useless by any means, but not perfect either.

Does that make any sense to you?

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > JC Wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I do know it... I also didn't say it.
> WHere
> > > the
> > > > hell did I say he is useless?
> > >
> > >
> > > You don't agree with the OP? People here have
> > > implied he can not catch. You either agree or
> > you
> > > don't. Stop playing games.
> >
> >
> > So by your logic, he either is the greatest,
> > peachiest, dandiest chap to ever have a ball
> > thrown his way, or he is "useless?" No room
> for
> > middle ground in your world?
> >
>
>
>
> From the very begining I was responding to the OP.
>
>
> Brandon Marshall can't catch
>
> Thats a Bullshit statement. Does he drop alot
> also? Can he improve? Sure. We could also get a
> more consistant QB to throw to him.



Fine, but I'm pretty sure we're allowed to respond to other posts too aren't we?

For the record, I disagree with the blanket, simplified statement: "Brand Marshall can't catch"

Brandon Marshall, in my opinion, is still a player we could deal in a trade and still upgrade this team.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I like Marshall, but yeah he needs to catch those passes.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Brandon Marshall, in my opinion, is still a player
> we could deal in a trade and still upgrade this
> team.


I agree. I think he has some value and we could still get a solid pick for him. When it comes to marshall the word that comes to my mind is "eratic"

He is just too inconsistent.

if we take marshall out of this offense then no one will ever be open. we don't have an elite pass catcher besides him. defenses roll coverage to him, defenses commit their top QB to covering him. this allows for easier coverage on everyone else. take him away and this offense would absolutely suck because no one would be open.

But we dont know that. You are assuming.

I would argue that Hartline is faster than Marshall. And I know for a fact, that Gates is.

Clay is playing really good for an underutilized playmaking TE, and Fasano seems to be underutilized as well.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

if these other players are so talented then why don't they put up bigger numbers. they get a fair amount of targets and definitely get better matchups than marshall does.

my point is that we know marshall can produce even when drawing the other teams best CB and having rolling coverage on him. You don't know that any other player on this team has the capability to produce against coverage like that and i haven't seen enough signs to think that they can.

Our WR numbers are always gonna be scewed, comparitavely speaking, because we only have journeyman QB's that ever start for us.

Until we get a franchise QB, we will never know what we truly have.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

The problem is that Brandon does not "produce" when covered or not. Certainly not to the extent that he could if he did not drop so many balls in crucial situations

However,there is a value to him drawing coverage in and of itself because if we had a Wes Welker, then we could kill our opponents.

I agree, A & O, that we need a top flight QB but I don't think that the absence of one explains why Brandon Marshall drops balls that hit him in the hand.

.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2011 09:37AM by Aqua&Orange.

But are we sure that Devone Bess is not every bit of the player that Wes Welker is?

We cant know that. The reason is, Tom Brady is throwing Welker passes.


Chad Henne and Matt Moore are throwing Devone Bess passes.


Do you see the point I am making?

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree, A & O, that we need a top flight QB but I
> don't think that the absence of one explains why
> Brandon Marshall drops balls that hit him in the
> hand.


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
I totally agree, Chyren. Totally agree. And thats my problem with Marshall. Inexscusable drops.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Yeah, that's an argument but I'm not sold on the difference between Wes Welker and Devon Bess being who throws the ball to them. Wes gets open far more frequently and has much more "fight" in him (as he had when he was playing for us, remember? And then he didn't have Tom Brady throwing to him. HIs performance with the Pats is no different than I remember him doing for us.)

Welker was an ok WR for us. I thought he was better as a return man for us.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"