DOLPHINS: Brown's DUI (was RE: [Miami Dolphins' Ronnie Brown...)

Patrick McLaughlin pluvlaw at hotmail.com
Wed Mar 24 23:53:03 GMT 2010 

They can take a breath test.  Defendant can request a blood test and if they request, cops have to make reasonable efforts to comply (ie., take them to an ER).  If Defendant cannot give a test for some reason (injury, unconscious, mouth injury, etc) they can take you to a hospital and have blood taken. Of course, if I get a blood draw case, my second letter after requesting a jury trial is to the hospital warning them of HIPPA violations.  HIPPA creates a whole set of problems for the State in getting that in.  
My SFST instructor showed me pictures of some states forced blood draw "chairs."  That crap looks like some kind of enhanced interrogation device:-)  In CA, do you guys (cops) have some trained to take the blood yourself?  I think it's crazy for law enforcement to want to do that.  That's begging for a civil suit if something goes wrong.
I have had cops before take guys who blew .00 for urinalysis which just baffles me.  As I have argued to the judge in those, "Judge, the po-po can't make you pee pee."  

We're implied consent to.  But that just means if you refuse to give samples, you lose your license.

Patrick, getting down verbally...



> From: mroz66 at comcast.net
> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
> Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:53:49 -0700
> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Brown's DUI (was RE: [Miami Dolphins' Ronnie Brown...)
> 
> That is the problem when you don't have the ability to do a force blood 
> draw. In Ca. it is almost impossible to convict without chemical evidence. 
> So you lose your license for a year... Let me just say this, if I knew I was 
> DUI I wouldn't take either test either (unless I am in a force blood draw 
> city). I mean why give the state evidence? I wouldn't do SFST's either as 
> that is the evidence used to convict you. Sober? I do anything the officer 
> says and I go for a blood draw if arrested.
> 
> Patrick, just wondering what the law is in SC if it is an injury DUI? Are 
> your Officer still not allowed to draw blood?
> 
> Rick
> 
> 
> >
> > wow.....nice write up Patrick.
> >
> > I live in Florida.  If I had consumed more than 3 drinks, I would not have 
> > blown.
> > Also, it's all video taped from the dashboard as well.  Your driver 
> > license will be suspended
> > for 1 year, and get a good lawyer.  He gets you a "hard ship driver 
> > license".  Basically
> > allows you to travel to work and church only.  But that's better than a 
> > guilty DUI on your
> > record.
> > Just my opinion.  Ronnie won't ever drink n drive again, I bet.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Patrick McLaughlin <pluvlaw at hotmail.com>
> > To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
> > Sent: Wed, Mar 24, 2010 9:25 am
> > Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Brown's DUI (was RE: [Miami Dolphins' Ronnie 
> > Brown...)
> >
> >
> >
> > CA law is bad.  I know Rick will disagree, but sorry..."a forced blood 
> > draw"?
> > That absolutely ignores the 4th Amendment.  In no other criminal charge is 
> > the
> > State allowed to so clearly violate a person's right to be free from
> > unreasonable search.  I'd call putting a needle in my arm and taking my 
> > blood a
> > pretty invasive manuever by the state.  This is in addition to most states
> > having DUI laws pretty clearly violate the 5th Amendment and 6th Amendment 
> > in
> > some fashion.
> >
> >
> >
> > I disagree about the SFSTs.  Shit...I had trouble doing them all through 
> > my
> > training.  Maybe that's b/c I'm more than 50 lbs overweight, which NHTSA 
> > says,
> > along with being 65 or over, should prohibit me from being given the 
> > one-legged
> > stand.  I don't know, but even Rick would have to admit you can "fail" 
> > either
> > one of the physical tests before the actually "start"  and it only 
> > requires 2
> > clues on each to fail.  In the 8 years I have been watching DUI videos, I 
> > can
> > count on one hand the times I have seen a cop correctly perform the HGN 
> > test as
> > the NHTSA training requires.  That's not necessarily a knock on cops. 
> > It's
> > pretty damn hard to do in the safety of a class with a classmate, let 
> > alone on
> > the side of a road with traffic wizzing by and someone you think is drunk 
> > and
> > possibly dangerous across from you in the middle of the night.  But you 
> > have to
> > remember, this stuff is based on science.  For science to be good, it's 
> > got to
> > be uniformly done and adhere to strict protocols.
> >
> >
> >
> > Here in SC, we're very lucky.  We've got probably the best DUI laws in the
> > nation (hey...we're the best at something!  that and man-on-horse luvin'), 
> > b/c
> > we've got a mandatory video taping requirement, from the time the blue 
> > lights
> > come on through arrest and then back at the breath site, through the 
> > 20-minute
> > observation and subsequent blow.  Hence the best course of action is to 
> > often
> > not blow.  First, why give the State a reading high enough to raise the
> > presumption of impairment?  Often enough, a cop has gotten on the stand 
> > and told
> > of how falling down drunk my client was, only to have me play the video 
> > and guy
> > is fine.  Second, the machines are not fool proof.  We just switched over 
> > to the
> > new DMTs here in SC and I have blown on one once and watched my BAC level
> > fluctuate as badly as my air-level on the graph.  When I asked the reps 
> > from
> > National Patent how that could be, they shrugged, said they didn't know, 
> > they
> > were seeing that fairly often.  That's crazy.  Your BAC level should reach 
> > a
> > certain stage and plateau, not fluctuate like your air level.  Plus, 
> > National
> > Patent and SC have fought since the the old DMTs were introduced here 
> > (back in
> > the '80s I think) against the criminal bar getting the source code for the
> > machines.  In other words, they won't let us know exactly how it is 
> > programed.
> > If I can't completely understand how the machine is made and coded to 
> > work, I
> > can't fully cross-examine its reading.  It's a trial by machine where 
> > Defendants
> > are denied the right even look into the machine.
> >
> >
> >
> > Not to mention the problem with the arbitrary nature of the .08 blood 
> > level to
> > begin with.  Way back when, when the G was trying to decide how to deal 
> > with
> > DUIs, they asked the AMA to come up with a BAC that would result in 
> > someone
> > being impaired.  They came back with .15.  That eventually got lowered to 
> > .10.
> > Why?  Was there any science behind it?  No.  It was political pressue that
> > resulted in the lowering.  And it's been lowered even further now to .08, 
> > still
> > with no basis in science, only through political pressure.  That doesn't 
> > even
> > begin to get into the partition problem with alcohol in the blood, wherein 
> > you
> > could easily be found guilty simply because your partition ratio is not
> > "average."
> >
> >
> >
> > Now...none of the above is meant to be legal advice for any particular
> > situation.  You get in trouble, you need to go hire a lawyer.  But the 
> > original
> > genesis of the thread was to point out that getting "arrested" for DUI and
> > actually being guilty of DUI are two wholly different concepts.  Unless 
> > you are
> > in CA.  Then you're fucked.  To keep this all Dolphins related:  since 
> > Ronnie
> > was in GA, I'd withhold judgment.
> >
> >
> >
> > And his christian name is William C. Head, but around these parts he's 
> > known as
> > Bubba.
> >
> > Patrick, getting down verbally...
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: mroz66 at comcast.net
> >> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
> >> Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 22:14:07 -0700
> >> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Brown's DUI (was RE: [Miami Dolphins' Ronnie 
> >> Brown...)
> >>
> >> I can't speak for other states but in California you are asked at the
> >> roadside (where the arrest was made) what test you want to do. If you say
> >> breath and I take you to the station to take the breath test and if you
> >> refuse to blow, that is a refusal and you are going to have your drivers
> >> license suspended for a minimum of a year and you are going to get at 
> >> least
> >> 2 extra days in jail. In Fairfield you are then taken to a hospital where 
> >> a
> >> blood draw will be conducted (like it or not). The whole asking for a 
> >> breath
> >> test and then asking for blood hoping that your BAC will be lower only 
> >> works
> >> if you stopped drinking at least an hour before the car stop. Otherwise 
> >> your
> >> BAC may still be rising.
> >>
> >> Rick
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "ldouglas" <ldouglas at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Miami Dolphins Discussion" <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 9:46 PM
> >> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Brown's DUI (was RE: [Miami Dolphins' Ronnie
> >> Brown...)
> >>
> >>
> >> so why do some people say "don't blow" - I'd always thought that was
> >> standard advice (as the BAC would go down once you go to the
> >> station/hospital) until I heard, as Patrick says, the DUI charge will
> >> be there no matter what if you refuse.
> >>
> >> not that this is a problem for me anymore but it would still be nice to
> >> know.
> >>
> >> On 3/24/10, Rick <mroz66 at comcast.net> wrote:
> >> > Patrick,
> >> >
> >> > Couldn't disagree more with some of your comments. Over the past three
> >> > years I have conducted over 2000 DUI investigations. If you have only
> >> > consumed one or two drinks you have nothing to fear with regards to 
> >> > SFST
> >> > or
> >> > a breath or blood test. IMO, it is to your benefit to take the chemical
> >> > test
> >> > if you know you have not consumed enough alcohol to blow an .08. As for
> >> > SFST, my experience is that they are easy for sober people to perform,
> >> > impaired people... not so easy. :~)
> >> >
> >> > I don't know about other states but in California you are required to
> >> > give a chemical sample (blood or breath). If you refuse you we can do a
> >> > force blood draw (not all cities allow that but mine does). So either 
> >> > way
> >> > I
> >> > am going to get a sample.
> >> >
> >> > Rick
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Patrick McLaughlin" <pluvlaw at hotmail.com>
> >> > To: <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
> >> > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 4:23 PM
> >> > Subject: DOLPHINS: Brown's DUI (was RE: [Miami Dolphins' Ronnie 
> >> > Brown...)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sorry, I'm commenting on this late, but it doesn't take much to fail 
> >> > FSTs.
> >> > It's an abnormal activity you ask someone to perform in an abnormal
> >> > situation. While not familiar with GA DUI law, I can tell you that in 
> >> > SC
> >> > if
> >> > you "failed" your FSTs, you're gonna get arrested for DUI. And most
> >> > everyone and their mother knows, you simply DO NOT BLOW when pulled. I
> >> > don't care if I had drank only one beer, I would never blow. FWIW, with
> >> > the
> >> > emphasis on DUI in law enforcement now, it's going to be harder and 
> >> > harder
> >> > to find people going forward who have not had one. Here in SC, they
> >> > literally give special cars to the cops who write the most DUIs. It's
> >> > like
> >> > door prizes.
> >> > If Ronnie knows what he's doing, he has hired Bubba Head to represent 
> >> > him.
> >> > Head is the DUI guy in GA.
> >> >
> >> > Patrick, getting down verbally...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 15:49:48 -0400
> >> >> From: cheesefrog at usa.net
> >> >> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
> >> >> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: [Miami Dolphins' Ronnie Brown is arrested for
> >> >> DUI -
> >> >>
> >> >> Miami Dolphins - MiamiHerald.com]
> >> >>
> >> >> To reiterate Randy's comment, that (weaving) would make him not unlike
> >> >> every
> >> >> other car on the road.
> >> >>
> >> >> I find it interesting that this story got no local press at all. I 
> >> >> heard
> >> >> nothing on the Atlanta TV or radio, nor in the weekend paper. I also
> >> >> couldn't
> >> >> find a thing in either the Atlanta or Cartersville online newspapers.
> >> >>
> >> >> Ronnie is a local hero in Cartersville. Curious the lack of media
> >> >> attention
> >> >> there. Makes me wonder if the charges will indeed be discounted.
> >> >>
> >> >> ------ Original Message ------
> >> >> From: ldouglas <ldouglas at gmail.com>
> >> >>
> >> >> > he was probably weaving too
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On 3/22/10, Salas, Randy <Randy.Salas at startribune.com> wrote:
> >> >> > > The weird thing is that he was pulled over for failing to use his
> >> >> > > turn
> >> >> > > signal to indicate a lane change. That describes basically every
> >> >> > > other
> >> >> car
> >> >> > > on the freeway on my 20-mile commute to and from work every day. I
> >> >> > > wonder
> >> >> > > what his BAC was.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > -----Original Message-----
> >> >> > > From: dolphins-disc-bounces at phins.com
> >> >> > > [mailto:dolphins-disc-bounces at phins.com] On Behalf Of Bill Morrow
> >> >> > > Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2010 11:35 PM
> >> >> > > To: Miami Dolphins Discussion
> >> >> > > Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: [Miami Dolphins' Ronnie Brown is arrested 
> >> >> > > for
> >> >> > > DUI
> >> >> -
> >> >> > > Miami Dolphins - MiamiHerald.com]
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > You really don't understand human nature and the denial of people
> >> >> > > that
> >> >> drink
> >> >> > > and drive. 90% of the people that leave a bar after drinking are
> >> >> > > drunk
> >> >> > > enough that they have no business drinking but they do it anyway
> >> >> > > because
> >> >> > > they aren't too drunk to drive, "that only happens to other 
> >> >> > > people".
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Just because he has money does not mean that he is any more
> >> >> > > responsible
> >> >> than
> >> >> > > anyone else when it comes to drinking and driving. It comes back 
> >> >> > > to
> >> >> > > the
> >> >> > > thing about believing that he isn't too drunk to drive. Money
> >> >> > > doesn't
> >> >> make
> >> >> > > you smarter or give you the ability to use more common sense, it 
> >> >> > > only
> >> >> makes
> >> >> > > you richer.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 9:38 PM, Richie Wohlers
> >> >> > > <richiewohlers at gmail.com>wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >> I just don't get it. If you're making millions per year, and you
> >> >> > >> had
> >> >> > >> a few drinks why don't you just call a limo? I know when I've 
> >> >> > >> been
> >> >> > >> in
> >> >> > >> similar situations it's a tougher call because finding cab fare 
> >> >> > >> when
> >> >> > >> I
> >> >> > >> was 24 was not the easiest thing.
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >> On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 7:36 PM, ldouglas <ldouglas at gmail.com>
> >> >> > >> wrote:
> >> >> > >> > [Miami Dolphins' Ronnie Brown is arrested for DUI - Miami
> >> >> > >> > Dolphins -
> >> >> > >> > MiamiHerald.com]
> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >>
> >> >> http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/03/21/1540913/miami-dolphins-ronnie-brown-is.html
> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > >> > Dolphins-disc mailing list
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> >> >> > >> >
> >> >> > >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >> > >>
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > --
> >> >> > > Bill
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I may grow old but I will never grow up!
> >> >> > > You don't get too old to play games; you get old when you quit.
> >> >> > > Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go
> >> >> > > away.
> >> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > > Dolphins-disc mailing list
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> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > _______________________________________________
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> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
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