DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit

Sun Oct 18 08:47:30 GMT 2009

he was a weed smoking, traffic cop running over, malcontent "straight
cash" homey and Tice's Randy Ratio wasn't working out so when Ziggy
Wilf took over he drew a line under the whole thing.

On 10/18/09, Richie Wohlers <richiewohlers at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, 2004 was Moss' worst season in Minnesota - playing only 13 games for
> 767 yards.  Moss was traded to Oakland after the 2004 season.  It's really
> crazy to think that Minnesota willingly traded Moss away,  I don't really
> remember how/why that all went down.  Culpepper played 7 games in 2005
> before getting hurt, then came to the Dolphins prior to the 2006 season.
>
> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 1:02 AM, ldouglas <ldouglas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> my - how quickly I forget that Pep was chasing 5000 yards. That was
>> the year Moss went down like in week 12 or something and then got
>> traded to the Raiders? Then Pep shredded his knee the next year.
>>
>> On 10/18/09, Richie Wohlers <richiewohlers at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > No - Culpepper's big year was 2004.  He had 4,717 yards and 39 TD's.
>> > The
>> > same year that Manning threw 49 TD's.
>> >
>> > It was the 2nd time that 5 different players through for 4,000+ yards.
>>  The
>> > first time was in 1999.  Since then, it's happened in 2006, 2007 and
>> 2008.
>> > In 2007 there were 7 players with 4,000+ yards.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 7:08 PM, ldouglas <ldouglas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> it played a part in his record season yes. but they didn't win the
>> >> Super Bowl that year. They got bounced by Pittsburgh. The year after
>> >> that, they found some balance and won the ring. I'd say THAT won him
>> >> the ring more than anything. That and Freeney and Mathis and Bob
>> >> Sanders and Cato June.
>> >>
>> >> Culpepper's big season was 2000 - way before the "absurd
>> >> liberalisation"
>> >> :P
>> >>
>> >> On 10/17/09, Greg Foster <GregFoster at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> > From: "ldouglas" <ldouglas at gmail.com>
>> >> > To: "Miami Dolphins Discussion" <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
>> >> > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:24 PM
>> >> > Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> well, Peyton won his ring because of a balanced offense.
>> >> >
>> >> > And the absurd liberalisation of PI calls didn't play a part in that
>> >> record
>> >> > shattering season for him OR Culpepper - right?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 10/15/09, Greg Foster <GregFoster at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>> From: "Kristoffer Shields" <kms223 at hotmail.com>
>> >> >>> To: <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
>> >> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:46 PM
>> >> >>> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Now we're getting philosophical!  ;-) >
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Yeah...I was an ancient Greek in another life
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>  <I think it depends a lot on how you define how the game was
>> >> "intended"
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> be played.  There was a point where there was no such thing as a
>> >> forward
>> >> >>> pass....  When I think of the "glory years" of the NFL, I think of
>> >> >>> hard-hitting safeties---but I agree that doesn't have to be part of
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> game.>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> The no forward pass thing was before my time but I get that. All I
>> >> meant
>> >> >>> is
>> >> >>> that once they introduced the forward pass, I figured the idea was
>> >> >>> that
>> >> a
>> >> >>> couple of guys would be out there competing for the ball - not so
>> >> >>> much,
>> >> >>> one
>> >> >>> guy competing for the ball while another guy looks to stove in that
>> >> >>> fella's
>> >> >>> rib-cage.
>> >> >>> As I say - and this'd apply to that hard hitting, pre-forward pass,
>> >> >>> safety
>> >> >>> bludgeoning - I think it makes a difference when the guy who's
>> >> >>> gonna
>> >> slam
>> >> >>> you is in front of you and you can see him coming. There's a
>> >> >>> "fairness"
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> the decisions y'make in that scenario.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> <And if the NFL is trying to get rid of that part of the game, this
>> is
>> >> a
>> >> >>> way
>> >> >>> to do it.  I just don't agree that it is necessary, but reasonable
>> >> minds
>> >> >>> can
>> >> >>> certainly differ on that.>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sure...I have massive problems about how they administrate
>> >> >>> (particuliarly)
>> >> >>> the passing game - I thought the PI situation existed for no reason
>> >> other
>> >> >>> than to gift Peyton a Superbowl, since he didn't seem able to get
>> over
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> hump in the existing context of the game - and the hitting of
>> >> >>> receivers
>> >> >>> is
>> >> >>> right at the bottom of the list.
>> >> >>> My major pet peeve is the possession and bobbling thing.
>> >> >>> I reckon that if y'slow a play up enough in replay, one will ALWAYS
>> >> >>> see
>> >> >>> some
>> >> >>> movement of the ball - and it galls me to have some geezer nobody
>> >> >>> adjudicating whether or not an elite athlete truly had and retained
>> >> >>> possession.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> <Having watched it again tonight, I basically agree with what Danny
>> >> >>> wrote.
>> >> >>> I'd just add two interesting things:  1) he was called for "hitting
>> a
>> >> >>> defenseless receiver," not helmet-to-helmet contact.  Those are
>> >> >>> technically
>> >> >>> two different penalties, and helmet contact is not necessary for
>> >> >>> the
>> >> >>> first---now, maybe they would not have called the penalty if it
>> hadn't
>> >> >>> been
>> >> >>> for the helmet contact, but technically if they were going to call
>> it
>> >> as
>> >> >>> it
>> >> >>> was, they should (by the rule) have called it whether there was
>> helmet
>> >> >>> contact or not, so the helmet-to-helmet contact is sort of
>> secondary.>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sure - it'd be interesting to see some demand for precision in
>> >> >>> adjudication
>> >> >>> the way they routinely demand precision in play.
>> >> >>> After all, too much hard work goes into this game to have results
>> >> decided
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> by
>> >> >>> mush-brained judgement calls...but sadly...it far too often, is.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>  < 2) What bears that out is that in the 2nd quarter, there was
>> almost
>> >> an
>> >> >>> identical play---high throw to Edwards, Wilson comes up and makes a
>> >> >>> big
>> >> >>> hit
>> >> >>> while he was in the air, complete with helmet-to-helmet
>> contact.....no
>> >> >>> call.
>> >> >>> The difference?  Edwards caught the ball.  Which brings us back to
>> the
>> >> >>> safety having to judge, in a split second, whether the ball will be
>> >> >>> caught
>> >> >>> or not, and I just don't think that's realistic.>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> A LOT of what players are expected to do is unrealistic - one of
>> >> >>> the
>> >> joys
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> of
>> >> >>> the game is how often these guys can actualise the unrealistic
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>> However.  More important than any of that....  the NFL HAS to do
>> >> >>>> something
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> about Pass Interference.  That call was just embarrassing.>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Yes...Peyton has his ring now, they can afford to take a proper
>> >> >>> look
>> >> >>> at
>> >> >>> PI
>> >> >>> evaluations.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>> From: GregFoster at optusnet.com.au
>> >> >>>>> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
>> >> >>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:07:53 +1100
>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Isn't the idea that the current degree of physicality is in some
>> >> >>>>> way,
>> >> >>>>> out
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> of
>> >> >>>>> step with the intention of the game?
>> >> >>>>> Ideally, a safety on a passing play is supposed to knock the ball
>> >> away
>> >> >>>>> or
>> >> >>>>> intercept it.
>> >> >>>>> Somewhere along the line it became apparent that, if the safety
>> was
>> >> >>>>> actually
>> >> >>>>> beaten on playing the ball, he could still be successful by
>> playing
>> >> the
>> >> >>>>> man - hitting the receiver with such ferocity that he couldn't
>> hold
>> >> on
>> >> >>>>> to
>> >> >>>>> the pass.
>> >> >>>>> That makes for great crowd pleasing (Lott's "whoo hit") - as did
>> >> public
>> >> >>>>> executions - but I'm not sure if it's strictly in line with how
>> the
>> >> >>>>> game
>> >> >>>>> was
>> >> >>>>> 'meant' to be played.
>> >> >>>>> I don't know if they'd have been as concerned about the placement
>> of
>> >> >>>>> the
>> >> >>>>> headgear's crown when it's made of leather, for example.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Anyway, this whole idea of physical intimidation being the lion's
>> >> share
>> >> >>>>> of
>> >> >>>>> the game...I mean, I enjoy it as much as anyone...but is that
>> >> >>>>> what
>> >> was
>> >> >>>>> in
>> >> >>>>> mind when the game was designed?
>> >> >>>>> Obviously on line play and the running game, it would always be
>> >> >>>>> integral...
>> >> >>>>> but  is that also true of the downfield receiving game?
>> >> >>>>> At the line, the opposition is coming at you, visibly from in
>> front
>> >> of
>> >> >>>>> you -
>> >> >>>>> there are choices to be made about how to deal with someone
>> charging
>> >> >>>>> straight at you.
>> >> >>>>> For receivers, it isn't necessarily that way at all and it maybe
>> >> seems
>> >> >>>>> fairer to have more protections in place for those involved with
>> >> >>>>> that
>> >> >>>>> aspect
>> >> >>>>> of the game.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> It seems to me that in many ways, it's more in keeping with the
>> >> spirit
>> >> >>>>> of
>> >> >>>>> the game - that the NFL isn't just covering over for injuries
>> >> >>>>> that
>> >> may
>> >> >>>>> prove
>> >> >>>>> expensive (although that's obviously a huge consideration) - to
>> >> >>>>> encourage
>> >> >>>>> players in the secondry to play the ball rather than the man.
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Well...maybe
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> Cheers,
>> >> >>>>> Greg
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>>>> From: "Kristoffer Shields" <kms223 at hotmail.com>
>> >> >>>>> To: <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
>> >> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:12 PM
>> >> >>>>> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>>
>> >> >>>>> >
>> >> >>>>> >
>> >> >>>>> > Don't get me wrong, I think Wilson's a disaster.  I guess I
>> >> >>>>> > just
>> >> feel
>> >> >>>>> > like
>> >> >>>>> > the NFL is taking the physicality out of football.  Yeah,
>> >> >>>>> > Wilson
>> >> was
>> >> >>>>> > playing the receiver, not the ball.... but that's what a safety
>> is
>> >> >>>>> > supposed to do---separate the receiver from the ball.  That's
>> what
>> >> >>>>> > Ronnie
>> >> >>>>> > Lott did, that's what Rod Woodson did, that's what Jack Tatum
>> did.
>> >> >>>>> > Some
>> >> >>>>> > of those guy's biggest plays would get flagged now.  I know
>> player
>> >> >>>>> > safety
>> >> >>>>> > is a big concern, and I support that---you should not lead with
>> >> >>>>> > the
>> >> >>>>> > crown
>> >> >>>>> > of your helmet, for sure.  If you keep your head up and hit the
>> >> >>>>> > guy
>> >> >>>>> > in
>> >> >>>>> > the
>> >> >>>>> > sternum, there's a good chance there's going to be some helmet
>> >> >>>>> > contact.
>> >> >>>>> > So now if you explode through a guy, it's a penalty....
>> >> >>>>> > instead,
>> >> you
>> >> >>>>> > have
>> >> >>>>> > to stop, wait and see if he catches it, then try to tackle him.
>> >> >>>>> > Combine
>> >> >>>>> > that with the ticky-tack stuff that counts as roughing the
>> passer
>> >> >>>>> > now....
>> >> >>>>> > they're just doing an awful lot of asking the defense to stop
>> >> >>>>> > accelerating.  None of that excuses Wilson--he knows the rule.
>> >> >>>>> > But
>> >> >>>>> > football's not a collision sport if you take away the
>> collisions.
>> >> >>>>> >
>> >> >>>>> >> From: thebigfish at smunet.net
>> >> >>>>> >> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
>> >> >>>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:50:01 -0500
>> >> >>>>> >> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >> >>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> The NFL has made it VERY clear - ANY helmet to helmet contact
>> in
>> >> >>>>> >> a
>> >> >>>>> >> situation like that is going to get flagged. I've only seen
>> >> >>>>> >> Wilson
>> >> 2
>> >> >>>>> >> or three times now, and
>> >> >>>>> >> I don't like him. This was stupid as well as dangerous. Wilson
>> is
>> >> a
>> >> >>>>> >> loose cannon on top of being a SH*TTY DB. This guy is NOT my
>> >> >>>>> >> favorite
>> >> >>>>> >> Dolphin. It's a piss
>> >> >>>>> >> poor use of payroll.
>> >> >>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> M
>> >> >>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> On Oct 13, 2009, at 6:19 PM, dolfanbg at comcast.net wrote:
>> >> >>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> > I think you'll see it in the replay when you watch the game.
>> >>  Like
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> > I
>> >> >>>>> >> > said at first, from a distance, it looked like Wilson was
>> just
>> >> >>>>> >> > trying to go up for the ball.  But watching the close-up,
>> >> >>>>> >> > slower
>> >> >>>>> >> > replay I don't think he was even looking at the ball.  He
>> went
>> >> up
>> >> >>>>> >> > toward the receiver then put his head down just before
>> >> >>>>> >> > making
>> >> >>>>> >> > contact.
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> > Besides giving the Jests a first down, it's also stupid
>> because
>> >> a
>> >> >>>>> >> > player can hurt themselves that way too.
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>>>> >> > From: "Kristoffer Shields" kms223 at hotmail.com
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> > Based on the way the rule is written and called, I don't
>> >> >>>>> >> > have
>> a
>> >> >>>>> >> > problem with the call.  What I don't like is the rule.  I'll
>> >> look
>> >> >>>>> >> > at
>> >> >>>>> >> > it again when the game is replayed, but I did not see Wilson
>> >> >>>>> >> > launch
>> >> >>>>> >> > himself at the receiver or lead with his helmet---he went in
>> >> face-
>> >> >>>>> >> > first, which means the crown was up and it was not a spear.
>>  He
>> >> >>>>> >> > went
>> >> >>>>> >> > in for the hit and because the ball was high, the receiver
>> was
>> >> >>>>> >> > exposed.  Like someone else said, I don't think it should be
>> up
>> >> to
>> >> >>>>> >> > the defender to play tentative there in case the ball is
>> >> >>>>> >> > incomplete.  The defender has to assume the ball will be
>> >> >>>>> >> > caught.
>> >> >>>>> >> > Basically, I don't like that the defense is penalized
>> >> >>>>> >> > because
>> >> the
>> >> >>>>> >> > QB
>> >> >>>>> >> > made a bad throw.  I don't want to see players get
>> hurt---even
>> >> >>>>> >> > Jets---but it's a contact game.  Like when Crowder got laid
>> out
>> >> by
>> >> >>>>> >> > Washington.
>> >> >>>>> >> >
>> >> >>>>> >> >> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:58:34 -0700
>> >> >>>>> >> >> From: joshism1981 at yahoo.com
>> >> >>>>> >> >> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
>> >> >>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >> >>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> --- On Tue, 10/13/09, dolfanbg at comcast.net <
>> >> dolfanbg at comcast.net>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>>>> >> >>> Lots of bogus calls on the Fins last night and several
>> >> >>>>> >> >>> b.s.
>> >> >>>>> >> >>> non-calls against the Jets.  But the flag on Wilson was
>> >> >>>>> >> >>> legit.
>> >> >>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> >> I saw the replay and understood the penalty.  It was a dumb
>> >> >>>>> >> >> penalty, but dumb on Wilson's part not the refs.
>> >> >>>>> >> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>>> >>
>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> >>>>> >
>> >> >>>>> >
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>> >> >
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>> >>
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