DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit

Sun Oct 18 08:02:36 GMT 2009

my - how quickly I forget that Pep was chasing 5000 yards. That was
the year Moss went down like in week 12 or something and then got
traded to the Raiders? Then Pep shredded his knee the next year.

On 10/18/09, Richie Wohlers <richiewohlers at gmail.com> wrote:
> No - Culpepper's big year was 2004.  He had 4,717 yards and 39 TD's.  The
> same year that Manning threw 49 TD's.
>
> It was the 2nd time that 5 different players through for 4,000+ yards.  The
> first time was in 1999.  Since then, it's happened in 2006, 2007 and 2008.
> In 2007 there were 7 players with 4,000+ yards.
>
> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 7:08 PM, ldouglas <ldouglas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> it played a part in his record season yes. but they didn't win the
>> Super Bowl that year. They got bounced by Pittsburgh. The year after
>> that, they found some balance and won the ring. I'd say THAT won him
>> the ring more than anything. That and Freeney and Mathis and Bob
>> Sanders and Cato June.
>>
>> Culpepper's big season was 2000 - way before the "absurd liberalisation"
>> :P
>>
>> On 10/17/09, Greg Foster <GregFoster at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "ldouglas" <ldouglas at gmail.com>
>> > To: "Miami Dolphins Discussion" <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
>> > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:24 PM
>> > Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >
>> >
>> >> well, Peyton won his ring because of a balanced offense.
>> >
>> > And the absurd liberalisation of PI calls didn't play a part in that
>> record
>> > shattering season for him OR Culpepper - right?
>> >>
>> >> On 10/15/09, Greg Foster <GregFoster at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "Kristoffer Shields" <kms223 at hotmail.com>
>> >>> To: <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
>> >>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:46 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Now we're getting philosophical!  ;-) >
>> >>>
>> >>> Yeah...I was an ancient Greek in another life
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>  <I think it depends a lot on how you define how the game was
>> "intended"
>> >>> to
>> >>> be played.  There was a point where there was no such thing as a
>> forward
>> >>> pass....  When I think of the "glory years" of the NFL, I think of
>> >>> hard-hitting safeties---but I agree that doesn't have to be part of
>> >>> the
>> >>> game.>
>> >>>
>> >>> The no forward pass thing was before my time but I get that. All I
>> meant
>> >>> is
>> >>> that once they introduced the forward pass, I figured the idea was
>> >>> that
>> a
>> >>> couple of guys would be out there competing for the ball - not so
>> >>> much,
>> >>> one
>> >>> guy competing for the ball while another guy looks to stove in that
>> >>> fella's
>> >>> rib-cage.
>> >>> As I say - and this'd apply to that hard hitting, pre-forward pass,
>> >>> safety
>> >>> bludgeoning - I think it makes a difference when the guy who's gonna
>> slam
>> >>> you is in front of you and you can see him coming. There's a
>> >>> "fairness"
>> >>> to
>> >>> the decisions y'make in that scenario.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> <And if the NFL is trying to get rid of that part of the game, this is
>> a
>> >>> way
>> >>> to do it.  I just don't agree that it is necessary, but reasonable
>> minds
>> >>> can
>> >>> certainly differ on that.>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sure...I have massive problems about how they administrate
>> >>> (particuliarly)
>> >>> the passing game - I thought the PI situation existed for no reason
>> other
>> >>> than to gift Peyton a Superbowl, since he didn't seem able to get over
>> >>> the
>> >>> hump in the existing context of the game - and the hitting of
>> >>> receivers
>> >>> is
>> >>> right at the bottom of the list.
>> >>> My major pet peeve is the possession and bobbling thing.
>> >>> I reckon that if y'slow a play up enough in replay, one will ALWAYS
>> >>> see
>> >>> some
>> >>> movement of the ball - and it galls me to have some geezer nobody
>> >>> adjudicating whether or not an elite athlete truly had and retained
>> >>> possession.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> <Having watched it again tonight, I basically agree with what Danny
>> >>> wrote.
>> >>> I'd just add two interesting things:  1) he was called for "hitting a
>> >>> defenseless receiver," not helmet-to-helmet contact.  Those are
>> >>> technically
>> >>> two different penalties, and helmet contact is not necessary for the
>> >>> first---now, maybe they would not have called the penalty if it hadn't
>> >>> been
>> >>> for the helmet contact, but technically if they were going to call it
>> as
>> >>> it
>> >>> was, they should (by the rule) have called it whether there was helmet
>> >>> contact or not, so the helmet-to-helmet contact is sort of secondary.>
>> >>>
>> >>> Sure - it'd be interesting to see some demand for precision in
>> >>> adjudication
>> >>> the way they routinely demand precision in play.
>> >>> After all, too much hard work goes into this game to have results
>> decided
>> >>>
>> >>> by
>> >>> mush-brained judgement calls...but sadly...it far too often, is.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>  < 2) What bears that out is that in the 2nd quarter, there was almost
>> an
>> >>> identical play---high throw to Edwards, Wilson comes up and makes a
>> >>> big
>> >>> hit
>> >>> while he was in the air, complete with helmet-to-helmet contact.....no
>> >>> call.
>> >>> The difference?  Edwards caught the ball.  Which brings us back to the
>> >>> safety having to judge, in a split second, whether the ball will be
>> >>> caught
>> >>> or not, and I just don't think that's realistic.>
>> >>>
>> >>> A LOT of what players are expected to do is unrealistic - one of the
>> joys
>> >>>
>> >>> of
>> >>> the game is how often these guys can actualise the unrealistic
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> However.  More important than any of that....  the NFL HAS to do
>> >>>> something
>> >>>>
>> >>>> about Pass Interference.  That call was just embarrassing.>
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes...Peyton has his ring now, they can afford to take a proper look
>> >>> at
>> >>> PI
>> >>> evaluations.
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> From: GregFoster at optusnet.com.au
>> >>>>> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
>> >>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:07:53 +1100
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Isn't the idea that the current degree of physicality is in some
>> >>>>> way,
>> >>>>> out
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> of
>> >>>>> step with the intention of the game?
>> >>>>> Ideally, a safety on a passing play is supposed to knock the ball
>> away
>> >>>>> or
>> >>>>> intercept it.
>> >>>>> Somewhere along the line it became apparent that, if the safety was
>> >>>>> actually
>> >>>>> beaten on playing the ball, he could still be successful by playing
>> the
>> >>>>> man - hitting the receiver with such ferocity that he couldn't hold
>> on
>> >>>>> to
>> >>>>> the pass.
>> >>>>> That makes for great crowd pleasing (Lott's "whoo hit") - as did
>> public
>> >>>>> executions - but I'm not sure if it's strictly in line with how the
>> >>>>> game
>> >>>>> was
>> >>>>> 'meant' to be played.
>> >>>>> I don't know if they'd have been as concerned about the placement of
>> >>>>> the
>> >>>>> headgear's crown when it's made of leather, for example.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Anyway, this whole idea of physical intimidation being the lion's
>> share
>> >>>>> of
>> >>>>> the game...I mean, I enjoy it as much as anyone...but is that what
>> was
>> >>>>> in
>> >>>>> mind when the game was designed?
>> >>>>> Obviously on line play and the running game, it would always be
>> >>>>> integral...
>> >>>>> but  is that also true of the downfield receiving game?
>> >>>>> At the line, the opposition is coming at you, visibly from in front
>> of
>> >>>>> you -
>> >>>>> there are choices to be made about how to deal with someone charging
>> >>>>> straight at you.
>> >>>>> For receivers, it isn't necessarily that way at all and it maybe
>> seems
>> >>>>> fairer to have more protections in place for those involved with
>> >>>>> that
>> >>>>> aspect
>> >>>>> of the game.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It seems to me that in many ways, it's more in keeping with the
>> spirit
>> >>>>> of
>> >>>>> the game - that the NFL isn't just covering over for injuries that
>> may
>> >>>>> prove
>> >>>>> expensive (although that's obviously a huge consideration) - to
>> >>>>> encourage
>> >>>>> players in the secondry to play the ball rather than the man.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Well...maybe
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Cheers,
>> >>>>> Greg
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> From: "Kristoffer Shields" <kms223 at hotmail.com>
>> >>>>> To: <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
>> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:12 PM
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> > Don't get me wrong, I think Wilson's a disaster.  I guess I just
>> feel
>> >>>>> > like
>> >>>>> > the NFL is taking the physicality out of football.  Yeah, Wilson
>> was
>> >>>>> > playing the receiver, not the ball.... but that's what a safety is
>> >>>>> > supposed to do---separate the receiver from the ball.  That's what
>> >>>>> > Ronnie
>> >>>>> > Lott did, that's what Rod Woodson did, that's what Jack Tatum did.
>> >>>>> > Some
>> >>>>> > of those guy's biggest plays would get flagged now.  I know player
>> >>>>> > safety
>> >>>>> > is a big concern, and I support that---you should not lead with
>> >>>>> > the
>> >>>>> > crown
>> >>>>> > of your helmet, for sure.  If you keep your head up and hit the
>> >>>>> > guy
>> >>>>> > in
>> >>>>> > the
>> >>>>> > sternum, there's a good chance there's going to be some helmet
>> >>>>> > contact.
>> >>>>> > So now if you explode through a guy, it's a penalty.... instead,
>> you
>> >>>>> > have
>> >>>>> > to stop, wait and see if he catches it, then try to tackle him.
>> >>>>> > Combine
>> >>>>> > that with the ticky-tack stuff that counts as roughing the passer
>> >>>>> > now....
>> >>>>> > they're just doing an awful lot of asking the defense to stop
>> >>>>> > accelerating.  None of that excuses Wilson--he knows the rule.
>> >>>>> > But
>> >>>>> > football's not a collision sport if you take away the collisions.
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> >> From: thebigfish at smunet.net
>> >>>>> >> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
>> >>>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:50:01 -0500
>> >>>>> >> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> The NFL has made it VERY clear - ANY helmet to helmet contact in
>> >>>>> >> a
>> >>>>> >> situation like that is going to get flagged. I've only seen
>> >>>>> >> Wilson
>> 2
>> >>>>> >> or three times now, and
>> >>>>> >> I don't like him. This was stupid as well as dangerous. Wilson is
>> a
>> >>>>> >> loose cannon on top of being a SH*TTY DB. This guy is NOT my
>> >>>>> >> favorite
>> >>>>> >> Dolphin. It's a piss
>> >>>>> >> poor use of payroll.
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> M
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> On Oct 13, 2009, at 6:19 PM, dolfanbg at comcast.net wrote:
>> >>>>> >>
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> > I think you'll see it in the replay when you watch the game.
>>  Like
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> > I
>> >>>>> >> > said at first, from a distance, it looked like Wilson was just
>> >>>>> >> > trying to go up for the ball.  But watching the close-up,
>> >>>>> >> > slower
>> >>>>> >> > replay I don't think he was even looking at the ball.  He went
>> up
>> >>>>> >> > toward the receiver then put his head down just before making
>> >>>>> >> > contact.
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> > Besides giving the Jests a first down, it's also stupid because
>> a
>> >>>>> >> > player can hurt themselves that way too.
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >>>>> >> > From: "Kristoffer Shields" kms223 at hotmail.com
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> > Based on the way the rule is written and called, I don't have a
>> >>>>> >> > problem with the call.  What I don't like is the rule.  I'll
>> look
>> >>>>> >> > at
>> >>>>> >> > it again when the game is replayed, but I did not see Wilson
>> >>>>> >> > launch
>> >>>>> >> > himself at the receiver or lead with his helmet---he went in
>> face-
>> >>>>> >> > first, which means the crown was up and it was not a spear.  He
>> >>>>> >> > went
>> >>>>> >> > in for the hit and because the ball was high, the receiver was
>> >>>>> >> > exposed.  Like someone else said, I don't think it should be up
>> to
>> >>>>> >> > the defender to play tentative there in case the ball is
>> >>>>> >> > incomplete.  The defender has to assume the ball will be
>> >>>>> >> > caught.
>> >>>>> >> > Basically, I don't like that the defense is penalized because
>> the
>> >>>>> >> > QB
>> >>>>> >> > made a bad throw.  I don't want to see players get hurt---even
>> >>>>> >> > Jets---but it's a contact game.  Like when Crowder got laid out
>> by
>> >>>>> >> > Washington.
>> >>>>> >> >
>> >>>>> >> >> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:58:34 -0700
>> >>>>> >> >> From: joshism1981 at yahoo.com
>> >>>>> >> >> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
>> >>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>> >>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>> >> >> --- On Tue, 10/13/09, dolfanbg at comcast.net <
>> dolfanbg at comcast.net>
>> >>>>> >> >> wrote:
>> >>>>> >> >>> Lots of bogus calls on the Fins last night and several b.s.
>> >>>>> >> >>> non-calls against the Jets.  But the flag on Wilson was
>> >>>>> >> >>> legit.
>> >>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>> >> >> I saw the replay and understood the penalty.  It was a dumb
>> >>>>> >> >> penalty, but dumb on Wilson's part not the refs.
>> >>>>> >> >>
>> >>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>
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