DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit

Sun Oct 18 02:08:34 GMT 2009

it played a part in his record season yes. but they didn't win the
Super Bowl that year. They got bounced by Pittsburgh. The year after
that, they found some balance and won the ring. I'd say THAT won him
the ring more than anything. That and Freeney and Mathis and Bob
Sanders and Cato June.

Culpepper's big season was 2000 - way before the "absurd liberalisation" :P

On 10/17/09, Greg Foster <GregFoster at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ldouglas" <ldouglas at gmail.com>
> To: "Miami Dolphins Discussion" <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>
>
>> well, Peyton won his ring because of a balanced offense.
>
> And the absurd liberalisation of PI calls didn't play a part in that record
> shattering season for him OR Culpepper - right?
>>
>> On 10/15/09, Greg Foster <GregFoster at optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Kristoffer Shields" <kms223 at hotmail.com>
>>> To: <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 12:46 PM
>>> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now we're getting philosophical!  ;-) >
>>>
>>> Yeah...I was an ancient Greek in another life
>>>
>>>
>>>  <I think it depends a lot on how you define how the game was "intended"
>>> to
>>> be played.  There was a point where there was no such thing as a forward
>>> pass....  When I think of the "glory years" of the NFL, I think of
>>> hard-hitting safeties---but I agree that doesn't have to be part of the
>>> game.>
>>>
>>> The no forward pass thing was before my time but I get that. All I meant
>>> is
>>> that once they introduced the forward pass, I figured the idea was that a
>>> couple of guys would be out there competing for the ball - not so much,
>>> one
>>> guy competing for the ball while another guy looks to stove in that
>>> fella's
>>> rib-cage.
>>> As I say - and this'd apply to that hard hitting, pre-forward pass,
>>> safety
>>> bludgeoning - I think it makes a difference when the guy who's gonna slam
>>> you is in front of you and you can see him coming. There's a "fairness"
>>> to
>>> the decisions y'make in that scenario.
>>>
>>>
>>> <And if the NFL is trying to get rid of that part of the game, this is a
>>> way
>>> to do it.  I just don't agree that it is necessary, but reasonable minds
>>> can
>>> certainly differ on that.>
>>>
>>> Sure...I have massive problems about how they administrate
>>> (particuliarly)
>>> the passing game - I thought the PI situation existed for no reason other
>>> than to gift Peyton a Superbowl, since he didn't seem able to get over
>>> the
>>> hump in the existing context of the game - and the hitting of receivers
>>> is
>>> right at the bottom of the list.
>>> My major pet peeve is the possession and bobbling thing.
>>> I reckon that if y'slow a play up enough in replay, one will ALWAYS see
>>> some
>>> movement of the ball - and it galls me to have some geezer nobody
>>> adjudicating whether or not an elite athlete truly had and retained
>>> possession.
>>>
>>>
>>> <Having watched it again tonight, I basically agree with what Danny
>>> wrote.
>>> I'd just add two interesting things:  1) he was called for "hitting a
>>> defenseless receiver," not helmet-to-helmet contact.  Those are
>>> technically
>>> two different penalties, and helmet contact is not necessary for the
>>> first---now, maybe they would not have called the penalty if it hadn't
>>> been
>>> for the helmet contact, but technically if they were going to call it as
>>> it
>>> was, they should (by the rule) have called it whether there was helmet
>>> contact or not, so the helmet-to-helmet contact is sort of secondary.>
>>>
>>> Sure - it'd be interesting to see some demand for precision in
>>> adjudication
>>> the way they routinely demand precision in play.
>>> After all, too much hard work goes into this game to have results decided
>>>
>>> by
>>> mush-brained judgement calls...but sadly...it far too often, is.
>>>
>>>
>>>  < 2) What bears that out is that in the 2nd quarter, there was almost an
>>> identical play---high throw to Edwards, Wilson comes up and makes a big
>>> hit
>>> while he was in the air, complete with helmet-to-helmet contact.....no
>>> call.
>>> The difference?  Edwards caught the ball.  Which brings us back to the
>>> safety having to judge, in a split second, whether the ball will be
>>> caught
>>> or not, and I just don't think that's realistic.>
>>>
>>> A LOT of what players are expected to do is unrealistic - one of the joys
>>>
>>> of
>>> the game is how often these guys can actualise the unrealistic
>>>
>>>
>>>> However.  More important than any of that....  the NFL HAS to do
>>>> something
>>>>
>>>> about Pass Interference.  That call was just embarrassing.>
>>>
>>> Yes...Peyton has his ring now, they can afford to take a proper look at
>>> PI
>>> evaluations.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> From: GregFoster at optusnet.com.au
>>>>> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
>>>>> Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 11:07:53 +1100
>>>>> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't the idea that the current degree of physicality is in some way,
>>>>> out
>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> step with the intention of the game?
>>>>> Ideally, a safety on a passing play is supposed to knock the ball away
>>>>> or
>>>>> intercept it.
>>>>> Somewhere along the line it became apparent that, if the safety was
>>>>> actually
>>>>> beaten on playing the ball, he could still be successful by playing the
>>>>> man - hitting the receiver with such ferocity that he couldn't hold on
>>>>> to
>>>>> the pass.
>>>>> That makes for great crowd pleasing (Lott's "whoo hit") - as did public
>>>>> executions - but I'm not sure if it's strictly in line with how the
>>>>> game
>>>>> was
>>>>> 'meant' to be played.
>>>>> I don't know if they'd have been as concerned about the placement of
>>>>> the
>>>>> headgear's crown when it's made of leather, for example.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, this whole idea of physical intimidation being the lion's share
>>>>> of
>>>>> the game...I mean, I enjoy it as much as anyone...but is that what was
>>>>> in
>>>>> mind when the game was designed?
>>>>> Obviously on line play and the running game, it would always be
>>>>> integral...
>>>>> but  is that also true of the downfield receiving game?
>>>>> At the line, the opposition is coming at you, visibly from in front of
>>>>> you -
>>>>> there are choices to be made about how to deal with someone charging
>>>>> straight at you.
>>>>> For receivers, it isn't necessarily that way at all and it maybe seems
>>>>> fairer to have more protections in place for those involved with that
>>>>> aspect
>>>>> of the game.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems to me that in many ways, it's more in keeping with the spirit
>>>>> of
>>>>> the game - that the NFL isn't just covering over for injuries that may
>>>>> prove
>>>>> expensive (although that's obviously a huge consideration) - to
>>>>> encourage
>>>>> players in the secondry to play the ball rather than the man.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well...maybe
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Greg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Kristoffer Shields" <kms223 at hotmail.com>
>>>>> To: <dolphins-disc at phins.com>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 1:12 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Don't get me wrong, I think Wilson's a disaster.  I guess I just feel
>>>>> > like
>>>>> > the NFL is taking the physicality out of football.  Yeah, Wilson was
>>>>> > playing the receiver, not the ball.... but that's what a safety is
>>>>> > supposed to do---separate the receiver from the ball.  That's what
>>>>> > Ronnie
>>>>> > Lott did, that's what Rod Woodson did, that's what Jack Tatum did.
>>>>> > Some
>>>>> > of those guy's biggest plays would get flagged now.  I know player
>>>>> > safety
>>>>> > is a big concern, and I support that---you should not lead with the
>>>>> > crown
>>>>> > of your helmet, for sure.  If you keep your head up and hit the guy
>>>>> > in
>>>>> > the
>>>>> > sternum, there's a good chance there's going to be some helmet
>>>>> > contact.
>>>>> > So now if you explode through a guy, it's a penalty.... instead, you
>>>>> > have
>>>>> > to stop, wait and see if he catches it, then try to tackle him.
>>>>> > Combine
>>>>> > that with the ticky-tack stuff that counts as roughing the passer
>>>>> > now....
>>>>> > they're just doing an awful lot of asking the defense to stop
>>>>> > accelerating.  None of that excuses Wilson--he knows the rule.  But
>>>>> > football's not a collision sport if you take away the collisions.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> From: thebigfish at smunet.net
>>>>> >> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
>>>>> >> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 18:50:01 -0500
>>>>> >> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The NFL has made it VERY clear - ANY helmet to helmet contact in a
>>>>> >> situation like that is going to get flagged. I've only seen Wilson 2
>>>>> >> or three times now, and
>>>>> >> I don't like him. This was stupid as well as dangerous. Wilson is a
>>>>> >> loose cannon on top of being a SH*TTY DB. This guy is NOT my
>>>>> >> favorite
>>>>> >> Dolphin. It's a piss
>>>>> >> poor use of payroll.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> M
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Oct 13, 2009, at 6:19 PM, dolfanbg at comcast.net wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > I think you'll see it in the replay when you watch the game.  Like
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > I
>>>>> >> > said at first, from a distance, it looked like Wilson was just
>>>>> >> > trying to go up for the ball.  But watching the close-up, slower
>>>>> >> > replay I don't think he was even looking at the ball.  He went up
>>>>> >> > toward the receiver then put his head down just before making
>>>>> >> > contact.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Besides giving the Jests a first down, it's also stupid because a
>>>>> >> > player can hurt themselves that way too.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> >> > From: "Kristoffer Shields" kms223 at hotmail.com
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> > Based on the way the rule is written and called, I don't have a
>>>>> >> > problem with the call.  What I don't like is the rule.  I'll look
>>>>> >> > at
>>>>> >> > it again when the game is replayed, but I did not see Wilson
>>>>> >> > launch
>>>>> >> > himself at the receiver or lead with his helmet---he went in face-
>>>>> >> > first, which means the crown was up and it was not a spear.  He
>>>>> >> > went
>>>>> >> > in for the hit and because the ball was high, the receiver was
>>>>> >> > exposed.  Like someone else said, I don't think it should be up to
>>>>> >> > the defender to play tentative there in case the ball is
>>>>> >> > incomplete.  The defender has to assume the ball will be caught.
>>>>> >> > Basically, I don't like that the defense is penalized because the
>>>>> >> > QB
>>>>> >> > made a bad throw.  I don't want to see players get hurt---even
>>>>> >> > Jets---but it's a contact game.  Like when Crowder got laid out by
>>>>> >> > Washington.
>>>>> >> >
>>>>> >> >> Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 14:58:34 -0700
>>>>> >> >> From: joshism1981 at yahoo.com
>>>>> >> >> To: dolphins-disc at phins.com
>>>>> >> >> Subject: Re: DOLPHINS: Officiating & Wilson's hit
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> --- On Tue, 10/13/09, dolfanbg at comcast.net <dolfanbg at comcast.net>
>>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>> >> >>> Lots of bogus calls on the Fins last night and several b.s.
>>>>> >> >>> non-calls against the Jets.  But the flag on Wilson was
>>>>> >> >>> legit.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> >> I saw the replay and understood the penalty.  It was a dumb
>>>>> >> >> penalty, but dumb on Wilson's part not the refs.
>>>>> >> >>
>>>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> > Dolphins-disc mailing list
>>>>> >> > Dolphins-disc at phins.com
>>>>> >> > https://www.phins.com/mailman/listinfo/dolphins-disc
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >> Dolphins-disc mailing list
>>>>> >> Dolphins-disc at phins.com
>>>>> >> https://www.phins.com/mailman/listinfo/dolphins-disc
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.
>>>>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > Dolphins-disc mailing list
>>>>> > Dolphins-disc at phins.com
>>>>> > https://www.phins.com/mailman/listinfo/dolphins-disc
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Dolphins-disc mailing list
>>>>> Dolphins-disc at phins.com
>>>>> https://www.phins.com/mailman/listinfo/dolphins-disc
>>>>
>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>> Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft’s powerful SPAM protection.
>>>> http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Dolphins-disc mailing list
>>>> Dolphins-disc at phins.com
>>>> https://www.phins.com/mailman/listinfo/dolphins-disc
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Dolphins-disc mailing list
>>> Dolphins-disc at phins.com
>>> https://www.phins.com/mailman/listinfo/dolphins-disc
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Dolphins-disc mailing list
>> Dolphins-disc at phins.com
>> https://www.phins.com/mailman/listinfo/dolphins-disc
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Dolphins-disc mailing list
> Dolphins-disc at phins.com
> https://www.phins.com/mailman/listinfo/dolphins-disc
>