WE need to ensure we get Luck, Barkley, or Landry next draft.

Getting Orton would ensure we would finish somewhere between 7-9 and 10-6.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Berk- I truly believe in Henne and his chances this year, we are going to battle for the AFC east Title with Patriots, and we will finish ahead of the JETS for sure. I think we win at least ten games...
All of this talk will be forgotten by you after Henne plays well and it will be nothign but water under the bridge. You are one of the smartest guys here, you cant think we are really done...
Henne won seven games last year and we had horrible luck...
We will play better, give them a chance, it is not fair to jump ship, when we havent even played a game. Added guys like Bush, Daniel Thomas, Pouncey, Gates. Odrick is coming back.
We just need some consistency.
Please guys wait until some football before you abandon hope for our team! We owe them that much as fans...

It is hard to have much faith in an organization that makes it plain to the world that THEY think we need a better HC and QB, essentailly say as much, but are unable to make that happen, and then extend the HC and sign the backup QB to a 1-15 team that threw 2x more INTs than TDs. That is the source of my frustration. Of course if Henne blows up and is terrific I will be overjoyed, but at this point, if that happens it will be only a product of pure luck, not any "smart" move the FO made. We are looking more like the Browns and Bengals than the Pats and Jets (or even the Lions) at this point. That is hard to take.

If'n you can't say something good about someone ( Dolphins ) then dont say anything at all ..................................................................................................................................................................

well then this bored will be awfully quiet...

Guess we have to sink or swim with Chad henne. But we never should have been put in this position when we could have gotten Mallet in the draft for what they were willing to fork over for Orton.

I hear Orton was looking pretty good out there btw.......it ain't over yet.

where have you seen that we refused to give up a 2d rather than a 3d?

Everything i've read said Denver started out wanting a 1st, then came down to a second, haven't seen anything that they would take a 3rd, have you?

I heard their position was 2 or 3 and ours was 4 or 5. Never heard anywhere they wanted a 1.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> guys, orton thew for 40+ TDs vs just 20 ints the
> past 2 years. IN what way is he not clearly better
> than Henne?

profootballfocus.com grades every player on every team on every play of every game. There are things that are positives and negatives that don't show up in stats. Consider these 3 things.

1) all out blitz, QB manages to throw it away to avoid the sack. This play hurts his passer rating. But, it's a positive play by the QB.
2) QB hits the receiver 15 yards downfield, right between the numbers, and the receiver drops the ball. This play hurts his passer rating, but this is a positive play by the QB.
3) QB throws a timing route, the receiver falls down, or runs the wrong route, and the pass is intercepted. This play has a very negative effect on passer rating, but it's not the QB's fault.

So, you can see where grading each play has some merit. It also accounts for things like penalties committed.

in profootballfocus.com's grades, Chad Henne was a +25.2, which was 17th among all QBs that had at least 300 drop backs. Kyle Orton was +19.3, 21st among QBs. In 2009, Chad Henne was +22.7, again 17th in the league. Kyle Orton was +18.1, again 21st in the league.

So, this is a completely independent football stat website that studies every game, and Henne has graded out better than Orton two years in a row. Jim Miller, a football analyst, and a longtime QB in the league, said today that Orton would have a difficult time beating out Chad Henne. Consider that statement. And look at those grades. If you give up a high pick and a big contract to acquire Orton, you are handing him the starting job. That's reality. And the truth is, he doesn't deserve to be handed that job.


3rd down and 3-7 yards to go stats:
Orton- 54 attempts, 26 completions, resulting in 23 first downs, 2 TD, 4 INT, 7 sacks, passer rating of 45.8

Henne- 55 attempts, 39 completions, resulting in 35 first downs, 4 TD, 0 INT, 6 sacks, passer rating of 119.7

Overall 3rd down stats
Orton- 120 attempts, 60 completions, resulting in 39 first downs, 3 TD, 5 INT, 16 sacks, passer rating of 58.0

Henne- 142 attempts, 81 completions, resulting in 60 first downs, 7 TD, 7 INT, 12 sacks, passer rating of 73.0

In the red zone:
Orton- 29 for 67, 43.3%, 3.3 yds/att, 13 TD, 0 INT, 2 sacks, passer rating 91.5
Henne- 26 for 46, 56.5%, 4.4 yds/att, 10 TD, 2 INT, 0 sacks, passer rating 89.0

Look at those numbers very critically. Where is the upgrade? Orton definitely has a lot more success with the deep ball, and on 1st and 2nd down. But, he only converted 23 out of 54 3rd and medium (3-7 yards to go)? With a less than 50% completion rate?

He'd be fine as competition for Henne. But, he is not sure to beat him out. And you just can't overpay for that. And I'm glad Ireland didn't.

mark, I love the in depth stats---but I don't need numbers to know that Henne was horrible last year when it counted. I (like you) saw every snap and he was crap when it mattered (and often when it didn't).
And Matt Moore was even worse.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> mark, I love the in depth stats---but I don't need
> numbers to know that Henne was horrible last year
> when it counted. I (like you) saw every snap and
> he was crap when it mattered (and often when it
> didn't).
> And Matt Moore was even worse.


But, it is more about Kyle Orton not being a franchise QB. You can't give up a 2nd rd pick, and pay him $8-10M a year, only to have him compete with Chad Henne. Broncos fans will tell you the same thing about Orton, that he folds when it matters.

Plan C has not been implemented yet...I hope!

It could still involve Bulger or Young.

I see Moore as a developmental guy or 3rd QB.

He is not better than Henne and offers no competition for him.

I hope this is the case or Ireland will be gone next year along with Tony.....

It is still not out of the question that we get Orton since we just cut Crowder and saved 5 mil....but now we need another ILB unless they figured out in one day that Edds is ready to start......

On the bright side....get ready for the chin in Miami.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

it won't involve young, who signed with philly. if it was going to involve bulger, I think we'd have spoken to him by now.

berkeley223 Wrote:
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> I heard their position was 2 or 3 and ours was 4
> or 5. Never heard anywhere they wanted a 1.


Nobody knows anything and probaly never will. But had we gotten a decent draft pick (THE BEST WAY TO BUILD A CHANPIONSHIP TEAM) for the most important posistion again, we wouldn't have any of this drama. Teams don't release future Superbowl QB's. Unless you get reeeeealy lucky. Like The saints.

Denver just paid Orton a 1.5 roster bonus, doubt he's going anywhere soon.

Let's not jump to conclusions....Moore may just be Thiggys replacement.

News still says Orton deal not dead yet....multiple sources.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

UNBELIEVABLE Matt Moore???? How does this happen EVERY year?? Henne was supposed to have competition and then they sign another back up who is HORRIBLE!! Sparano and Irland must go NOW!! The Jets and Pats kep making moves and the Fins as usual keep making STUPID moves! Im sick to my stomach over another bad year

Stfu!

DiabolicalDolfan13 Wrote:
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> Stfu!


What he said!

Wondering how Crowder52 feels about Ireland and Sparano now that Crowder got cut??? Still saying STFU???

not sure why he needs to STFU. I think a lot of us feel the same way

Roster bonus can be part of trade....picked up by other team.

Idk....rumor is Elway is stubborn per Bernie Kosar who dealt with him in arena league.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers