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          Pick a QB
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This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Pick a QB
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: July 22, 2011 09:28AM

Poll
Who should be pick up at QB
Only registered users are allowed to vote for this poll.
23 votes were received.
Kyle Orton for a 3d 7
 
30%
V Young for nothing 9
 
39%
K Kolb for a second and more 0
 
0%
D McNabb for nothing/low round pick 1
 
4%
No one---sink or swim with Henne 6
 
26%



given these options, I go for Orton, then Young, then no one. Hell no to McNabb and Kolb. Orton is pretty good, IMO.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: July 22, 2011 09:38AM

I agree with you in theory berk, Orton for a third, but he has a pretty large contract. SO you would be paying him 3 or 4 times what you are paying Henne, the proposed starter at this point. If Henne beats Orton in camp, do you cut him? Or pay him 5- 7 million to be a back up. With him being completely free for that third pick you gave up after one year. SO you cant even trade him next year, if Henne works out.. Pretty big insurance check to write and cap space for a guy that might not even play.... But he would be the best available choice hands down, not including the financials

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: July 22, 2011 10:17AM


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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: July 22, 2011 11:03AM

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nobody.
>
............... I want a top 5 pick next
> year.


You almost sound like MIA here .lol

I hear where you are coming from, but i think you need some type of veteran, or guy that can take over in case of injury.. I voted for Young, he can add dimension with his running ability, and could be pretty bad in wild cat packages, or to add dynamics to the offense and contribute even if Henne thrives

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: July 22, 2011 11:23AM


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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: July 22, 2011 01:50PM

There's a couple things with Orton. Number one, is he really available? John Elway has not been too enthusiastic about Tim Tebow this offseason. It certainly doesn't sound like Tebow is going to be handed the job. Orton is certainly a more proven option. And several of the guys on Sirius have hinted that Tebow doesn't have a lot of support in the locker room, either. So, I don't think it's a given that Orton is even available.

And number 2, Orton is due $8.9M this season. We have approximately $12M to sign our draft picks and pursue free agents. If you trade for Orton, that leaves enough money for draft picks, but no free agents. The $9M salary cap hit is a real problem. And you have Henne making less than $600k. How fair is a competition when one guy is making almost 18 times what the other guy is? And what happens if Henne wins the competition? and you have Orton taking up almost 10% of the team's cap space?

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Re: Pick a QB
Date: July 22, 2011 06:21PM

I'd like to say sink or swim with Henne. Let him wash out once and for all. But as a Die heart Dolphins fan I want to win. I voted for Vince for nothing. I'd like to see someone with a spark out there for a change. Shake it up. could be a killer wildCat free for all. Doesn't cost us much. lets have some fun for a change!

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: July 22, 2011 06:29PM


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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Jonathan Twilley ()
Date: July 22, 2011 07:20PM

I went with Vince for nothing. Maybe the guy will have a chip on his shoulder and also start to mature. I gave strong consideration to the Orton choice, but realistically, I don't think he can be had for just a 3rd otherwise I would pull the string.

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Re: Pick a QB
Date: July 23, 2011 04:23AM

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'd like to say sink or swim with Henne. Let
> him
> > wash out once and for all. But as a Die heart
> > Dolphins fan I want to win. I voted for Vince
> for
> > nothing. I'd like to see someone with a spark
> out
> > there for a change. Shake it up. could be a
> > killer wildCat free for all. Doesn't cost us
> much.
> > lets have some fun for a change!
>
>
> We are all die hard dolphin fans or we wouldn't be
> wasting time on this board.
>
> Would you rather go 9-7 with Vince Young, almost
> or just make the playoffs, and pick 20th next
> year... or would you rather go 3-13 with Henne and
> draft Luck or Barkley and have a franchise QB for
> the next decade?
>
> That's the question.




I don't assume anything for anyone else. I commented that I WAS a Die heart Dolphins fan. Your statement was not necessary.And I do not feel I am wasting time here.

Second , the question was who would you rather see as a QB, not would I rather see the team medicore or Big Losers. But If thats what your changing it to, Then I guess medicore winners. Last year I took the Loser route and where did it get us? Last three games went down the toliet and we just wasted good draft posistion is a Strong QB class.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: July 23, 2011 02:42PM

Jonathan Twilley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I went with Vince for nothing. Maybe the guy will
> have a chip on his shoulder and also start to
> mature. I gave strong consideration to the Orton
> choice, but realistically, I don't think he can be
> had for just a 3rd otherwise I would pull the
> string.


But the question was WHAT IF Orton could be had for a 3rd.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: July 23, 2011 03:23PM

most feel a 3d is the going rate (stuff I've read), which is nuts considering that they feel the rate for kolb is at least a 1st

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: July 24, 2011 04:02AM

With the amount of money Orton is said to receive next year, and the fact that Henne may or may not keep the starting job, Orton doesnt make any sense. Unless you cut or trade Henne IMO. You are talking about paying him pretty elite Qb money. That is the reason Denver is even thinking about trading him, is his contract.. And to be honest Denver is no more certain about Tebow then we are about Henne. I think he winds up in Denver. It is one thing to pay a guy as insurance money becasue you dont have a choice it is another thing to put yourself in that position by giving up a third rd draft pick...
SO basicly if we do trade for Orton, Henne would be done, and will not get a start in Miami IMO. That would put the GM and coaches in a horrible position. One you put yourself in a position where you either admit Henne as a failure, or the trade for Orton to be a failure. neither which is a good idea in a short preseason.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: July 24, 2011 06:23AM

And there is the simple fact that we do not have the cap room for Orton's $9M.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Ken ()
Date: July 24, 2011 08:27AM

Out of that group, under the listed parameters, Orton is the choice. He'd have to be willing to renegotiate his contract however because 8.9 million is too much money for one year.

Young...is too much of a flake despite his obvious talent, so no IMHO.

McNabb...heck no! He's done and shouldn't even be considered as an option IMHO.

Kolb...is a player that I actually like quite a bit but I think Philly's asking price to too high.

Someone else...this was the best option for the future of our team. But, we were too wimpy to get a a player in April's draft to develop in 2011, and be a backup (Kappernick IMHO). We'll never have a solid group of guy's long term, if we don't draft good players, and develop them.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: July 24, 2011 09:28AM

ps- I still want to know who signed the contract giving Orton 8.9 million the final year of his contract... That is a cut me or put me in coach contract. I would be amazed if someone, anyone pays Orton that type of money and he is not the starting Qb, even if he stays in Denver. Pinch me if it happens....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2011 09:30AM by Crowder52.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: July 24, 2011 10:50AM

whoever deals for orton will get that # reduced when they sign him to a longer term deal. his cap # isn't an issue. look at this guys #s last season with a poor team, he played only 13 games and they were incredible.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: July 24, 2011 12:35PM

Berk- Do you think if the Dolphins traded for him to compete with Henne we would sign him to a long term deal? And what would he accept, the guy has a guaranteed 8.9 million from reports or else he has to be cut, which would give him complete freedom as a FA and a big signing bonus to whichever team he chooses. A team that has no options at Qb like the Cardinals, etc, would be willing to sign a long term deal and try and make him the QB of the future. ANd I agree it is not a bad idea, but the hole hanging chad (pun intended) makes it a no win situation, high risk for a GM and coach on thin ice to a certain degree. Meaning, if they cut Henne and go with Orton, and he is no better then Henne was was here but they pay Orton 6 million a year on 5 years and some signing bonus , and then Henne goes to somewhere like Arizona and thrives, bad scenario for the regime. We sign Orton to big money and keep Henne, Henne plays well and now we are in the same scenario as Denver just got out of with Orton, a back up that is undesirable becasue of hefty contract needed to keep or sign him attached so diminished trade value.
Now lets say Orton beats out Henne in camp, so Henne remains a back up for the year, and Orton leads us to 8-8. No better then we are in now. And the question of Henne is still there....

We have to give Henne his shot in my opinion. with a possible vet like Vince Young in the back up for nothing, waiting for the chance if Henne completely blows it.... But I think Henne needs a full shot this year without playing in fear of losing his job football. He needs to go for it and air it out. Not play I dont want to lose the game check down football.Even if we lose it is ok as long as they dont blame it on me type of attitude. Which is what I think Henne's mindset became last year after some setbacks. Which just brought the worst out of him as a QB IMHO.

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Re: Pick a QB
Date: July 24, 2011 12:58PM

Crowder makes a great point. Whoever signs Orton isn't signing him to compete. Its to Play. If that was there plan all long in the draft I may have some crow to eat. But it wasn't. Henne is their man for another year. Look for Vince to get signed .

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: July 24, 2011 02:04PM

the plan all along was to get a vet to compete with henne. if orton beats out henne and puts up numbers like he did last year, then great, we have our QB. if not that means henne has shown improvement. either way I think we are no longer desperate for a QB next year, though if neither of those 2 things happen and we really stink, we still could get one of the franchise guys in the draft.
Orton would re-do his deal since he's got only 1 year left on it, happens all of the time (phins wouldn't do the trade without getting an agreement with him on a deal that works for everyone). if all he costs is a 3d, I say go for it in a heartbeat. remember, everyone wanted to spend a 3d on mallet who at this point is no orton.

if we don't get orton and sign VY for no draft compensation, I'm fine with that too.

don't sleep on marc bulger as the "nonthreatening" vet this regime would bring it to "compete" with henne

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: July 25, 2011 06:12AM

Orton's not coming. I really do not want VY. I still think the best option is McNabb. The guy was an all pro in 2009 so he still has something in the tank.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: July 25, 2011 07:06AM

McNabb is a west coast offense guy so I would pass on him and he has been fired from two teams in two years.He is backup material at this point. He doesn't have the athleticism he once had to get by on...

Orton for a 3rd is a no brainer IMO but maybe a deal for a lower pick and a player is the way to go.

The question is...."Do you want a head case for the face of the franchise?" Are you willing to bet the integrity of the organization on a guy that may quit on you or melt down? VY is not an option according to inside sources via Omar.

We will find out soon enough. I expect QB to be the first FA we sign unless the one we want falls through.

and re: Ortons salary....he can be resigned to a less prohibitive long term deal and would likely prefer that route.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2011 07:08AM by eesti.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: July 25, 2011 07:37AM


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Re: Pick a QB
Date: July 25, 2011 08:22AM


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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: July 25, 2011 09:10AM

I hear what you are saying Treasure and understand what PF2 wants, but at the end of the day if Henne flops, how bad would we be, nowhere near the top 3 or 4 picks IMO... Last year Henne was bad the second half of the season and he still managed 7 wins or so for the year. So I think no matter what we are not getting a top 5 pick.... Our Oline will improve our defense should improve... So saying not to get a veteran back up to guarantee if Henne flops we get Luck or the number 2, just isnt going to happen, with out a trade up no matter what IMO...
As you even admit there is plenty of talent on this team, it is not like 07 or 04. This is a real team with good young players in place all over the place..
Dont get me wrong, I would love to go after Luck if Henne doesnt pan out, but i just dont think the path to acquiring him will differ if you sign a veteran at Qb this year, except maybe Orton becasue you would have to sign him long term to real money.

If Ireland believes Orton is a star and Henne isnt then you should go get Orton right now and pay him 8.9 million, and tell Henne he will be the back up unless he can unseat Orton but it is Orton job to lose not his... Henne is making the type of money that can justify him carrying a clipboard for another season. If Orton works out, you sign him to a long term deal during the season and cut or trade Henne. If Orton doesnt, then you put Henne in a see what he does and cut Orton at the end of the season. If neither work out trade up to get luck or the number 2...
Orton is just expensive insurance or exploratory from my cheap seats, costing you 8.9 million and a 3rd rd draft pick. But if the GM feels Orton is a possible franchise QB, you would be a fool not to... I am not smart enough to make these decision, barely got enough brain power to lay out the scenarios, options and consequences as you work them out...I am glad Ireland makes the big bucks, becasue if Henne doesn work out and Orton is a star somewhere else, Ireland might be lynched by the fans...that is if we dont plan to trade up to get Luck after the fact.
ANd finally to me, I am not sure Henne cant get it done. And I am also not postive Orton is that much better then Henne....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2011 09:14AM by Crowder52.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: July 25, 2011 12:04PM

I agree with Crowder. It is very likely we can win 8 or 9 games with Henne and are nowhere near bad enough of a team to draft number one overall. That team will likely be one that needs a qb.

It is fair to say this regime did not put the highest value at qb but that was under Parcels direction. The big man wants a qb and jobs are one the line. We will get a qb this week IMO....either Orton or Bulger.

In response to Henne not having to look over his shoulder.....tough titty. If he doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to compete then he will never be the man. You have to be a leader and strong minded to be a starter in the NFL.

The 9 mil Orton is owed doesn't really matter. Its not that high for a starting qb but beyond that there is no way we give up drat picks without a long term deal. Seriously? Anyone think bwe are giving up draft picks only to lose him to FA in one year? Not happening.

Also...we gave up two seconds for Marshall and he makes 10 mil a year. He is the highest paid WR in the league. We would certainly pay that for a qb that we liked enuf to give up draft picks for.

I think that Jeff and Tony have showed that they are not as down on Henne as most are by the fact that we didn't draft a qb at all. Most likely they liked their options for trades and FA and we will most likely sign Bulger for no picks.

I'm sure they have studied him enuf to see that he was only bad when he had no protection. He will not have that problem in Miami. We were one of the best pass protecting teams in the league last year and will only be better this year.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: BigNastyFish ()
Date: July 25, 2011 01:59PM

Goooooooooooooooo Henne!

cool smiley

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: July 25, 2011 03:05PM

BNF, without the Henna.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: July 25, 2011 03:22PM

I'll preface this by saying that I like Kyle Orton. I think he's a pretty solid player. I don't think he's a franchise QB, though. I think he's more of a caretaker kind of QB.

Anyway, if Denver trades Orton, think about this. Chicago had Orton, and they felt better off with Jay Cutler. Denver had Orton, and they felt better off with Tim Tebow. Both teams will have made conscious efforts to replace Orton.

When two organizations have decided that Orton is not the answer at QB, in spite of him playing pretty well, I really hate to give up even a 3rd rd pick for him, and pay him $8.9M this season, or negotiate a long term deal for him.

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Re: Pick a QB
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: July 25, 2011 03:52PM


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