One thing I DO know from experience.......NEVER argue with a cop.
Even though its just words on a screen , you are the law here and I have to respect that or leave.

You win. Will this season &^%!ing start already!!!!!?

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You win. Will this season &^%!ing start
> already!!!!!?

any day now!!

Someone made a joke that proved what I said at the beginning of the lockout with my "killing the golden goose" comments.

On local L.A. TV, one sports commentator reporting that it seems that a deal will be done dryly commented, "I guess they finally figured out that it isn't that hard to split 9 billion dollars after all."

(Don't know whether the figure is correct but the point is the same no matter what the true figure.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2011 09:50AM by ChyrenB.

I can't WAIT for the season to start....so we can argue about important things, like when they're going to wear the orange jerseys.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2011 05:24PM by JC.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Someone made a joke that proved what I said at the
> beginning of the lockout with my "killing the
> golden goose" comments.
>
> On local L.A. TV, one sports commentator reporting
> that it seems that a deal will be done dryly
> commented, "I guess they finally figured out that
> it isn't that hard to split 9 billion dollars
> after all."
>
> (Don't know whether the figure is correct but the
> point is the same no matter what the true figure.)



But was the Comentator a black or a white guy?


Just keeeeeeding!

Sheeeeeeeeshhhhhhhhh!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2011 09:25AM by ChyrenB.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chyren-
> > I believe the laws of supply and demand should set
> a free market price just like other markets. WIth
> certain stipulations and protections of course as
> in other fields.
> If a ton of guys want to play pro football and
> there are only so many postions then that should
> set the wage, just like in a free market. If you
> want to charge somebody to wash cars, and you want
> a 100 bucks, but the guy down the street does just
> as good for just for 75, then why the heck should
> you be entitlted to charge people 100 that dont
> want to be charged a 100. Same things goes both
> ways for customers and employment. Maybe you wash
> 2 cars a day for a total of 200 bucks. But the
> other guy washes 10 cars and pays 2 employees 10
> bucks an hour to help, so he makes 750 gross
> creates more 2 jobs and and takes home 550.
> SUpply and demand should dictate all markets... I
> understand this doesnt related to certain NFl
> matter as it, while currently in a free market non
> union mode, it is still to the point of the
> comments...

RESPONSE: If the wages go down, then so does the value of the product. There are plenty people with money in Europe that WOULD JUST LOVE to have the Tom Bradys and the Terry Bradshaws as well as all the Jack Tatums and Mean Joe Greens play over there for the same salary that is played here.

America would no more be willing to support seeing a bunch of college dorm jocks than watching paint dry.

So you drop the wages and the quality of the product goes overseas. Heck, the teams might even end up playing in Japan or China.

Yeah, it's the law of supply and demand but the demand is from the American sports viewer demanding a first rate product on the field and it is DELUSIONAL to think that at this point in history (THIS IS NOT 1940 WHEN PRO FOOTBALL WAS JUST GETTING OFF THE GROUND), the owners can pay what they want and force the great players to play for that amount.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> The guy in your story, should have gone and got
> another job, or not work for the guy anymore.

RESPONSE: You still don't understand. This was not possible. In Oklahoma in the 1950's and 60's, you just couldn't go somewhere else. First of all, this was the only restraurant downtown. Secondly, if he went somewhere else, the same thing would happen.

My little union action preventing him from losing his job. The guy stayed at a downtown sleazy hotel and was just barely hanging on financially.

Crowder, you really would not like the world you want of free unrestricted capitalism and your comment here indicates that you "just don't get it" from that example of how a downward bidding war plays out. The worker has no choice.

Unionism provides the only protection.


Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Employees have a freedom to choose whatever place
> or job they are qualified to work for.

RESPONSE; Young and naive.


Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

If the
> diner has to lower the prices on the menu because
> times are slow, they shouldnt have to continue to
> pay a dishwasher a boom time salaries or even
> supply that job, if he doesnt see fit.

RESPONSE: You still don't understand. Irene did not make the switch based on the economic dictates of the cash flow to the business but simply on the basis that someone offered to do your job for less money than you are being paid.

As an owner of a business, Crowder, and as an owner of a business in the late 20th and early 21st Century, you don't seem to understand how things really work in a REAL right to work state like Oklahoma in the 1960's where and when there were no unions.


Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

A business
> owner doesnt have the same ability to just walk
> away from his business, and leave it to the
> employees, so that means he has to set the market
> as to which it would handle.

RESPONSE: She dismissed him just because someone was willing to take his job for less pay.


Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

If not the employees
> could destroy the market,
> In the state of Florida, and employer can fire any
> employee at any time and not give a reason. That
> is what I mean as to a "right to work" state.


RESPONSE: In a real "right to work" state, unions are not allowed. Under the provision I quoted above, Florida guarantees the right to unionize.

Crowder, how friggin old are You?

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If a ton of guys want to play pro football and
> there are only so many postions then that should
> set the wage, just like in a free market.

Are you not realizing or ignoring the fact that there are a ton of guys that want to play pro football? The thing that you and others keep glossing over, is that there are only so many that can play at an extremely high level, a high enough level for the owners to charge the amounts that they do.

I am all for the player's let someone else pocket billions off my blood sweat tears and shortend life and I am not going to get as much as I can get that would make me the biggest dumb a** in the world.

pro football players are not leaf blowers. they are not fungible. you can't just get somone else to do their job without destroying the quality of the league, which is what sets it apart from, say, the WNBA or arena league (which no one gives 2 sh*ts about). So the entire presmise of the argument--comparing players to blue collar workers with no clout--is just completely wrong.

crowder, are you in a favor of the minimum wage? because without that law, you are correct, employers could hire dishwashers for $1 an hour, because there is always somone willing to do the job for cheaper. The problem with that is you have a nation living in poverty.

I don't buy it, college football is pretty damn good and exciting all without any salaries, he'll I even enjoy high school Friday night lights. To say the prOduct suffers is not true. College ball is preferred by many, and the athlete is not as big nor fast.

the pros are just the best college players getting paid to play. you want a pro league made up of everyone except those guys? why, so that the owners can make more profit? you don't really think lower salaries would be passed on to the fan do you? other than indirectly, of course---b/c no one would pay top dollar to see an inferior product

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> That's crazy!
>
> Give it up, Crowder!


Come on now Chyren, I have been very passive with you guys in this discussion, while I have been told I am such things as young and Naive. Yet I have probably owned and created more jobs then most on this site, combined probably... I have a business owners perspective, and let me tell you, the last few years has been a tough perspective and position to come from. I have not defaulted on one payment or walked away from any resposibiltiy or obligation through out any process as a business owners. When given the option during the worst part of the economy a couple years ago to lower salaries, or to give everybody an extra day off and keep salaries the same, I choose to keep salaries the same and give people extra time off for quality of life. SO while their pay was a little less, they got a little extra time with their family or to themselves. I pay the price everyday for the things you choose not to relate to or just wave or shrug off. I commend these owners and the responsilbities they must face in these tough times with their business. I understand you have very little perspective to relate, but I happen to have perspective to relate, and it certainly isnt from being Naive..

Now you want to paint my opinion as crazy or to give it up.... I find that a bit ridiculous and pardon the pun but naive...

You are so concerned about the right and freedoms of a worker, you look passed the rights of another person who are being trampled on, you are unwilling to see... I am fine with other people freedom and workers rights, but i just think that the business owners rights and freedoms are just as important... It is just easy for someone without those resposibilities and burdens to look past it or disvalue it... All I can do is laugh..and shake my head....

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
---b/c no
> one would pay top dollar to see an inferior
> product


First off yes, I think it is obvious that huge salaries and guaranteed money has contributed to the ridiculous increase in ticket prices over the last 10-15 years.

How do you know you are not watching an inferior product now? I personally think the defenses as a whole in the NFL have gotten to good and much better then the offenses as a whole have gotten. SO it leads to alot of inferior boring football. How many Dolphins games that you watched last year was a superior product? I have been watching inferior Football since Wanstedt took over...lol.
How many superior product or even adeqaute offense's or Qb's are there in a league with 32 teams?
A league is at its best with a certain level of competitive balance but tilted slightly to the offense, IMO. Right now we dont have that, the game has flourished lately from the impact of such things as fantasy football, and an interactive fan experience outside of the field, not from the competive balance or offensive exciting football.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2011 02:23PM by Crowder52.

Crowder, I know and respect your business skills of today. BUT YOU CHOSE to take me on with reference to what it was like in a right to work condition in Oklahoma in 1964. I called you young and naive and said "give it up" because all of your retorts were applicable to being in the year 2011 and trying to reason out everything from the standpoint of the market, i.e., the market will solve this and the market will solve that.

It didn't work that way then. Owners had all the power and without unions they will always have all the powers. If you can't see that, then I don't know what to say.

You may say that unions can sometimes reach a point where they may bankrupt a company and cost themselves jobs. I think you were making that point with respect to the current negotiations between the players and the owners.

Didn't I stay out of that?

Meanwhile, I was arguing with Treasure who felt that any employee should either take the salary he is offered or not work at all.

However, you couldn't resist jumping in and agreeing with Treasure.

Then when everyone savaged your position, you want to play the victim.

If you are going to take the position that there should be no unions, the logical conclusion of your argument, then you are going to have people call you young and naive or give it up.

Nothing wrong with Unions. I'm a Union Member myself. But Unions are there to make sure that your rights are respected and upheld. The profit sharing and money part of it has nothing to do with a union. Its between a greedy POS agent and the owner of a Billion $$$ Buisness.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing wrong with Unions. I'm a Union Member
> myself. But Unions are there to make sure that
> your rights are respected and upheld.

Watch out, Treasure, Crowder may not agree with you on that one.

Unions are part of the checks and balances that keep employers doing the right thing. Lets face it, Everyone has an agenda and is concerned with how things effect them and no one else. When it comes to health insurance, work place saftey, Unions have their place. It unites workers so they can vote and a majority is reached on certain working conditions.

Your right that unions have gotten a bit out of control and helped drive buisness overseas. But thats only because Health and work place benifits have gotten so expensive. each side raises the bar , and ultimately we have what we have now, a HUGE correction in almost every work feild.

I've taken a huge cut in my rerirement benifits. My insurance has gone up. Its the same story everywhere. I accept that.

What makes the NFL players entitled to MORE? Why do they get a bigger part of the Pie while the hotdog vendors are laid off? Its bullxxxx.

Call me racist, call me whatever you have during this thread to make your tiny miserable point , but what it comes down to is these players believe they are entitled and above us all. They are going after these rich owners because they believe they are entitled to what they earn. They don't care how it effects you or I. Its all about THEM.

I'm sorry , I can't feel for stuborn spoiled Players who just want more money to waste . These agents need to organize money shops and ways for them to make a few million last a lifetime. Not insist on Millions more so they can aquire more stuff while hotdog vendors and cops and everyone else tighten the belts for them.

F em all. I hope this runs in to next season.

(mod edit...cursing)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2011 06:11AM by Phinsfan2.

TreasurecoastPhinFan wrote

'I've taken a huge cut in my rerirement benifits. My insurance has gone up. Its the same story everywhere. I accept that. '

Good you accepted it but where is it written that just because you did the players have to. If they decide to fight great for them.

You never seemed to grasp the fact that the players did not start this mess the owners did. The players are fighting to hold on to what the owners agreed to give them. If they decided to fight and not take a butt screwing from big corporate giants like so many Americans are doing today I am for them. At least some Americans still know how to fight.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
If they decided to
> fight and not take a butt screwing from big
> corporate giants like so many Americans are doing
> today I am for them. At least some Americans still
> know how to fight.


Careful mizzou. how dare you speak ill of the "job creators." you might hurt their delicate feelings and then they won't create jobs no more. Oh wait, they are not doing that anyway (well maybe they are in India)...

Dude you should have cut this link a long time ago

What was Porky Pig's final line?

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What was Porky Pig's final line?


That the players make too much $$$$$$$$?

I can agree with this guys, at times owners can be tyranical and at times so can unions. I support all those that are having their individual rights and freedoms exploited by others, no matter what it is disguised as on either side. Neither side is exempt from exploiting the other side. My personal experiences, you are right Chryen i was not around in the workforce or business during the trying time of the sixties with all kinds of equall rights in the workplace being corrected, I dont have a problem with private sector unions, because i dont deal with many in Florida anymore other then, SAG, Iatse, Crane workers and longshoremen unions. And when they were strong in the contruction business here, they offered a better product with more reliable delivery times, so they fullfiled a service or were solution orientated workforce for the extra money you paid, you got more services and reliabilty. Parts of the public sector unions have been pretty exploitive of taxpayers and politicians in these local parts but I understand that does not happen everywhere.

On the NFL note, I hope this new deal makes all sides happy and both sides can live with the agreement, this has been one tiresome off season, without football. I sure hope something was gained to make the system more balanced then it was before.