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          It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: Jim B ()
Date: May 07, 2011 03:42PM


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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 07, 2011 04:44PM

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chyren, how much of the "wildcat" blame can be
> legitimately put on Dan Henning, who is now gone?


Then why draft Daniel Thomas who on occasion ran the Wildcat in college?

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: May 07, 2011 04:56PM

If thats the case, then dont draft any RB from college....because they all have ran it.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 07, 2011 04:56PM


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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 07, 2011 05:02PM

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If thats the case, then dont draft any RB from
> college....because they all have ran it.


I'm not sure that is exactly true about all of them running it. and I was given to believe, since the draft, that Thomas was somewhat of a specialist at running it.

You just listen to whatever you can hear about our draft picks and the name Wildcat just kept coming up with respect to Thomas but I don't remember hearing it with respect to Ingram.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: May 07, 2011 05:03PM


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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 07, 2011 05:32PM

In 2010, Chad Henne had one potential INT dropped. No other NFL QB had fewer than 4 dropped, and the league average was 6. Meanwhile, Mark Sanchez had a whopping 15 potential INTs dropped, including 3 or 4 by our own Fins. Think what the perception of the two would be if the both lucked into the NFL average of 6? Henne would have had a positive TD to INT ratio, and Sanchez would have been a disaster.

Think about that. Henne threw 20 potential INTs, and 19 were actually caught. Sanchez threw 28 potential INTs, and only 13 were caught. Imagine how much that one stat changes everything. And not just in terms of QB rating or perception. Think about the impact on both teams' overall records.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: Mia1 ()
Date: May 07, 2011 05:55PM

Well I for one sure we got a improved center which should help ALOT, we also have a fast wr which should help alot too.

The biggest help is a new OC, so maybe he can be all pro with this, you know what I'll give him half this season to impress me, he has no more excuse's and Im ok with letting him with all the goodies.

Can't get any worse than 7-9 lol...

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: Jim B ()
Date: May 08, 2011 05:26AM

Interesting stuff dolfanmark, I had no idea of those dropped INT stats.

Perception is not always reality.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 08, 2011 08:28AM

I too did not know they kept such stats. Do they keep them based on the team or specific defensive back who dropped them, Dolphinmark?

If so, I would be interested in our team or defensive back drop stats.

Because I remember us dropping a helluva lot of them last year.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: May 08, 2011 08:53AM

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it is the exact same offense that Chad Pennington ran.

One of Henne's biggest problems is the fact the he telegraphs his throws. Opposing db's say he is the easiest qb to defend bc he locks on to his receiver.

He needs to learn how to look them off. This will certainly help with the int problem.

If he can do that he will be fine.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 08, 2011 09:23AM


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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 08, 2011 09:30AM

THANKS!!!!!

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 08, 2011 09:45AM

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please correct me if I'm wrong but it is the exact
> same offense that Chad Pennington ran.
>

It is the same offense that Pennington ran. And it's the same offense that Henne ran better in 2009 than Pennington did in 2008.

Under Henne, in 2009, the Fins scored 360 points and ranked 15th in the league in offense. Under Pennington in 2008, the Fins scored 345 points and ranked 21st.

People remember the Pennington year more fondly than they should. He struggled mightily in the 2-minute drill, and the WR combined for a total of 5 TD catches.

It's also pretty apparent that the coaching staff handled Pennington much differently. You can say it's Henne's fault for not inspiring confidence in the coaches, but the playcalling in 2010 took a dramatic turn whenever they got into FG range. I think anyone who saw most of the games would admit that. They would drive the field mixing run and pass on the early downs, then get inside the 30, and they'd run twice up the middle, get forced into a 3rd and long, and then settle for a FG. It was like clockwork. And it was extremely noticeable. The offensive strategy was to play for FG, and the playcalling reflected that.

And by far, the single biggest difference for the 2010 team was the collapse of the running game. Dan Henning runs the old school Paul Brown offense, which we ran under Don Shula, and the Steelers ran under Chuck Noll. It is a power running attack that sets up play action passing. When the running game doesn't work, the offense doesn't work. In 2008, we ran for almost 1900 yards with 18 rushing TD. In 2009, we ran for over 2200 yards with 22 rushing TD. In 2010, we ran for 1600 yards, and just 8 TD, and at a 3.7 yards per carry clip, which was 30th in the league. That is why the offense sputtered, more than any other reason. Not many teams are going to be successful when they are among the handful of worst rushing teams in the league.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: May 10, 2011 01:34PM

We also had the 10th ranked passing offense in 08…yes scoring is more important but just sayin.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: May 23, 2011 10:41AM


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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: JC ()
Date: May 23, 2011 11:01AM

Wow, that article was written by Yet Another Dolphins Fan Residing in Enemy Territory.

I'm constantly amazed by the number of us living in New England.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 23, 2011 01:59PM

There was also a good tidbit in the last couple of days how the Daboll offense features 1, 3, 5, and 7 step drops. When Football Outsiders broke down our passing offense, they found that the play calls had Henne taking 5 step drops about 95% of the time, with 7 step drops accounting for the other 5%. The disadvantage this put us (and Henne) at is huge. When you are predictable, other teams will exploit that. By always being in 5 step drops, it helps the pass rushers because they know where the QB will be, it helps the D-Linemen time when to go for batted balls, and it helps DBs play routes. It's another example of how poorly Henne has been coached.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Date: May 23, 2011 03:41PM

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, that article was written by Yet Another
> Dolphins Fan Residing in Enemy Territory.
>
> I'm constantly amazed by the number of us living
> in New England.


I was born and raised in Staten Island NYC. Lived and breathed amongest the dreaded green fiends. God I hate that team. angry smiley We need to make it to the dance before they ever do.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: dolphin ()
Date: May 24, 2011 04:58AM

we will certainly find out how much the old OC had to do with Henne sucking last year.

Of course it was not the OC's fault Henned locks in on on WR and can't find the wide open one.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 24, 2011 03:26PM

dolphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> we will certainly find out how much the old OC had
> to do with Henne sucking last year.
>
> Of course it was not the OC's fault Henned locks
> in on on WR and can't find the wide open one.


The guy he usually locked on was Marshall, waiting and waiting for him to get some separation. And knowing that he has to force him the ball, or else Marshall gets all pouty and starts committing penalties.

And for not being able to find the open WR, Henne completed over 61% of his passes last season. That's a better percentage than Josh Freeman, Colt McCoy, Brett Favre, Jay Cutler, Matt Hasselbeck, Kyle Orton, Kevin Kolb, Sam Bradford, Donovan McNabb, Vince Young, Mark Sanchez, Matt Cassel, and Ryan Fitzpatrick.

He threw 26 passes away. When you take those away, plus the ones that were batted at the line, or where he got hit as he released, or where he spiked the ball, he completed over 68% of his "aimed" passes, as rated by profootballfocus.com. And then factor in 27 drops, most of them by Marshall, and the percentage continues to rise.

He was also at his best when blitzed. When blitzed, Henne had a QB rating over 88.0, completing 64% of his passes for over 8 yards per attempt, with 7 TD. That's a very good sign. He makes good pre-snap reads, and he executes well in that situation. The coaches need to place more trust in his ability to make pre-snap reads.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: May 24, 2011 04:30PM

It is easy to blame all the offensive woes on Henne but I believe there is more to it than meets the eye. His faults were more obvious of course.

How many drops did Marshall have? How mnay did the others have?

How many times did the receivers run a bad route?

Why didn't the coaches teach him to look off the safeties?

Why did he only take 5 step drops?

I do know the accuracy stat is skewed because of all the dump off passes. He had 115 passes completed to TEs and RBs and he was among the worst in the league for long passes.

This was an offense that was a good fit for Pennington but maybe not for Henne. I also think he can be better if he fixes a few things and gets in a better fitting offense.

I don't think we can afford to rely on Henne. We have to have another option....not sure the f.o. will give up picks for Orton but Bulger is looking like something they might go for. My vote is still for Orton.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 24, 2011 05:45PM

Tom Brady completed 152 passes to TE and RB. Does anyone say his accuracy stats are skewed because of it?

Tom Brady completed 12 passes thrown more than 20 yards in the air. That is just 2 more than Chad Henne.

Brady- 21 passes overthrown, 23 underthrown, 20 thrown wide, a total of 64 passes

Henne- 24 passes overthrown, 14 underthrown, 29 thrown wide, a total of 67 passes

Brady had one more passing attempt for the season, so the numbers aren't skewed by that. And I think everyone would agree that Brady played behind a better line, with more time to throw, had a better running game, and played in a much more sophisticated offense that creates mismatches and does an excellent job of spacing.

Did Brady's play calling involve him taking 5-step drops 95% of the time? How many times did the Patriots send out 2 receivers into the pattern? How many times did Brady have to come off the field for the wildcat, and then have to come back in to face a 3rd and long?

Do people realize that in 2008, under Pennington, our offense ranked 21st in the league in scoring? And that in 2009, under Henne, we improved to 15th? And it was a more dramatic turnaround than that suggests because in the first 3 games, which Pennington started, the team averaged just 14 points per game?

Chad Henne regressed in 2010. No question. And he needs someone to compete with him. But, way too much blame is laid at his feet. What happened in 2010? The offensive line went from one of the league's best to one of the league's worst. Carey's play fell off dramatically, and the losses of Smiley, Grove, Garner, and Thomas were HUGE. The running game collapsed. And they added a diva receiver who led the league in drops, and did not fill their need for someone who can stretch the field. Henne lost confidence, for sure, and his play suffered. But, this is not all on him, not by a longshot.

And please, let's not hear anything about how Henne hurt Marshall's performance. Marshall averaged 11.1 yards per catch his last year in Denver, and he averaged 11.8 with Henne. In his career in Denver, he averaged 6.5 catches per game, at 12 yards per catch. With Henne, he averaged 6.5 catches per game, at 12 yards per catch. And when you look at YAC, Marshall actually caught the ball 2 yards further downfield in Miami than he did in Denver, but his YAC was 2 yards worse. And people can blame this on Henne, but Bess, Hartline, and Fasano all did just fine with YAC, and all three had career best years.

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: May 24, 2011 06:09PM


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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: May 24, 2011 06:59PM

man he was playing with an all star offense. steve breaston, braylon edward, mike hart, jake long, those are all solid NFL players (maybe not hart but he tore it up in college). he should have been awesome

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: May 25, 2011 06:20PM

No one would argue that Bradys stats were skewed bc we all know he is a good qb, can lead the offense and has a long record of great play.

Brady was among the bottom of the league in deep passes but do the comparison on a few other qbs like Brees, Rodgers or Manning...Kyle Orton, Roeth, Rivers.

Brady also got better play from his TEs but both he and Henne had no deep threats to work with.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: KB ()
Date: May 27, 2011 04:04AM

Can it be true? Is it a Henne Groupie FINALLY willing to quantify golden boy's non-performance? IS 1000 PASS attempts the magic number at which point you true believers will, AT LAST, stop making excuses for this boat anchor?

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: Jim B ()
Date: June 02, 2011 03:39PM


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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: June 02, 2011 04:20PM

again, the difference is the "it" factor, performance with the game on the line. sanchez blows henne away in that area, which doesn't show up on the stat sheet

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Re: It's Henne Time....Go PHINS!
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: June 02, 2011 05:05PM

You'll be able to say that when the Jets institute the Wildcat, berk, and when they run it on the first two downs on every occasion wherein the Jets offense "penetrates" the opposition 30 yard line. And then, after that fails, when Sanchez is re-inserted back in to make something out of a 3rd and 7 with the entire defense focused on the passing game. If the Jets do that, then we can compare performances in "crunch" time.

Until then, it's not fair to compare the crunch time performances of a Sanchez who does not have to share his time with the Wildcat and a Henne who does.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2011 05:08PM by ChyrenB.

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