Home
THIS SITE
  About Phins.com
  Contact Us
TEAM NEWS
  Team Info
  Twitter Feeds
  News Wire
  Phins RSS Feed
GAMES
  Schedule
PERSONNEL
  Roster
  Depth Chart
FOR THE FANS
  Forums
  Places To Watch
HISTORY
  Team History
  1972 Tribute
 
-- Advertisement --
Privacy Policy at Phins.com
 
  Phins.com Phorums
    News Wire | Roster | Depth Chart | Last/Next Game | Schedule | Links  
          Unions
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Unions
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: March 12, 2011 04:23AM

I know there are people here who support unions. I'm not one of them. At this point, that includes the NFL Players Union (along with Teacher's unions, UAW, Teamsters, AFL-CIO, etc...).

I'd like a union supporter here to go back historically and identify the very last significant accomplishment ANY union in this country has made. I'm talking about something socially relevant. I think the creation of the NFL Players Union WAS significant, because players were no more than indentured servants before that, but most recently they're arguing about who will make several hundreds of thousands of dollars more. Seriously, players aren't servants anymore. Those who can manage their money can live very comfortable lifestyles. Those who can't manager their money wouldn't live well whether they were in the NFL or not!

So, someone please let me know. What was the last truly GOOD thing a union did?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2011 04:23AM by montequi.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: March 12, 2011 05:05AM

Monty, if you don't think Unions are still needed in this country then you're just as clueless as some"1" else on this board. Take away the threat of unions and watch these companys and Politicians run right over middle class America, why do you think all these corps. move their factories to Mexico and other 3rd world countries? Lower wages, no safety, no child labor laws, etc. I'll agree that all unions aren't flawless and they need some reform, but the day unions are outlawed watchout. Yeah I guess if everyones OK working for minimum wage then go ahead and bitch about unions.

And please would everyone stop confusing whats going on in Wisc, IN & Ohio with what ALL these assholes in the NFL are arguing about, BOTH SIDES! One is real working Middle-class workers fighting for a fair wage and the right to collectively bargain and the other is a bunch of rich dudes that cant figure out how to divy up 9 Bil.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 12, 2011 05:21AM

I think Unions have a place but not in the field of Public servants. When they are unionizing against what is essentially the tax payers, the Union becomes the bully and I am completely against it.
However in Wisconsin, I stand with the teachers and against the fire fighters and police unions. I think the teachers unions are getting screwed.
The reason the teachers are gonna get screwed and the fire fighter and police are not is becasue the teachers have the weakest union and the Fire fighter and police is the most dominant unions in the country and each state. SO they get all they want and the teachers pay the price. SO you dont get rewarded based on value, you get rewared based on how well you can organize votes. That is why I despise it. Its political extortion and it happens everyday in south florida, where I live and am from.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: March 12, 2011 05:52AM

Teachers unions treat everyone equally, and that's a major problem. Good teachers are woefully underpaid in this country. They also have to make up for bad teachers who can't get fired. Take it from a former teacher. This is TRUE! Unions haven't fixed that problem.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: March 12, 2011 05:54AM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Monty, if you don't think Unions are still needed
> in this country then you're just as clueless as
> some"1" else on this board. Take away the threat
> of unions and watch these companys and Politicians
> run right over middle class America, why do you
> think all these corps. move their factories to
> Mexico and other 3rd world countries? Lower wages,
> no safety, no child labor laws, etc. I'll agree
> that all unions aren't flawless and they need some
> reform, but the day unions are outlawed watchout.
> Yeah I guess if everyones OK working for minimum
> wage then go ahead and bitch about unions.


You're paranoid. Plain and simple.

Unions are JUST AS CORRUPT as our political system. There are good corporations and bad corporations, but MOST of them are good. The Enrons of the world are in the minority. Have unions stopped export of labor so far? Have they stopped offshoring to China, India, etc..? NOPE!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2011 05:59AM by montequi.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 12, 2011 06:42AM

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Teachers unions treat everyone equally, and that's
> a major problem. Good teachers are woefully
> underpaid in this country. They also have to make
> up for bad teachers who can't get fired. Take it
> from a former teacher. This is TRUE! Unions
> haven't fixed that problem.


You are right, getting rid of a bad teacher or teacher that is lazy and doesnt give a sh*t is next to impossible and that is a huge problem with the teachers unions. THe school board is the next biggest problem, at least where I am from... THere needs to be a way to develop a criteria for judging paying and firing teachers..
I was just referring to pay, I believe good teachers are underpaid, and cops and firefighters in general are overpaid at least where I am from. They are valued by how many votes they can guarantee a politician each different election cycle not on value to the society.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: March 12, 2011 07:30AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: March 12, 2011 07:32AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: March 12, 2011 07:55AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Jim B ()
Date: March 12, 2011 08:03AM

Unions are great! Without them I would have never personally encountered....

1) Organized Crime
2) 5 guys doing the work of 1
3) Mandatory scheduled breaks on the minute...no matter how inefficient it is.
4) slackers
5) Intimidation
6) Lockout of non union workers
7) rewarding failure
8) political activism

Basically all good stuff...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: March 12, 2011 09:01AM

Phinsfan pretty much covered all of what I would say. Although I would again add that all unions aren't perfect, I am in a union that if you show up on a job and don't perform, you are laid off and sent back to the hall, NO QUESTIONS ASKED, the hall will eventually send you back out but you will then be expected to perform again, eventually you're reputation will catch up to you and noone will hire you (those people usually work about 4 or 5 months out of the year and bitch about everything) I cringe as much as the next guy when I hear about some union guy that was caught sleeping at the local Ford plant and they couldn't fire him, UN-ACCEPTABLE!

I also don't think unions are needed in every field (or for that matter some fields need both union/non-union workers) using an example of my trade (Pipefitters) would be; Union fitters are needed in the big plants, the Oil refinerys, Steel Mills, Chemical Plants, Power Houses etc. to insure the best trained workers are the doing the work the safest way possible, trust me when I tell you this, you DON'T want some kid just out of highschool making $12 an hour welding pipes together at a Nuclear Powerhouse. The flip side to that would be; I don't expect the mom & pop corner store who's coolers goes out to pay union wages to come out and fix it, I don't expect you or me to hire union fitters to come out and charge our air conditioning units either.

Anyone that thinks big buisness and Politicians wouldn't trample over workers rights without at least the threat of unions is living under a rock. Look no further then the Gulf oil spill last summer, out at sea with no real safety or Govt. oversight, BP by-passed many safety rules because it was too costly, and low and behold guess what happened.

I leave you with a real scary quote;

?"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" - Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 12, 2011 11:57AM

I agree with almost all of what you said Dolphaholic, guys like you are what still give some unions good names, but since we are leaving quotes, how about those of left wing god and a big supporter of private sector unions.

“Meticulous attention,” the president insisted in 1937, “should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government….The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service.” Franklin D. Roosevelt 1937

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: March 12, 2011 02:01PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Mia1 ()
Date: March 12, 2011 03:39PM

Problem with teaching is, the requirements to become a teacher.

Not to mention the academic programs are a joke.

The education being taught is the problem.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: March 12, 2011 03:44PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Mia1 ()
Date: March 12, 2011 03:46PM

I am I mean take me for example, proof that the education is FUBAR. Thank you for siding with me!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Mia1 ()
Date: March 12, 2011 03:47PM

Education nowaday's is all about the money.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: March 12, 2011 03:48PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Mia1 ()
Date: March 12, 2011 03:50PM

Yeah I am stupid, especially compared to scholard folks. However what I lack in terms of intellect, I make up for in physicallity and the natural lore of nature.

Sure I can't do a lick of math, but I would outsurvive anyone in the wilderness on here!!!

I could prob beat up most on here too, so yeah being stupid compared to some of you has it's up's and down's.

Hey I'm ok with it tough, because I know my strength's and weakness's, and can deal with loss's, without resorting to suicide lol, or screwing somone over.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2011 03:51PM by Mia1.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 12, 2011 04:52PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 12, 2011 06:21PM

Jim B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unions are great! Without them I would have never
> personally encountered....
>
> 1) Organized Crime
> 2) 5 guys doing the work of 1
> 3) Mandatory scheduled breaks on the minute...no
> matter how inefficient it is.
> 4) slackers
> 5) Intimidation
> 6) Lockout of non union workers
> 7) rewarding failure
> 8) political activism
>
> Basically all good stuff...


RESPONSE: Sounds like you live in Jersey or the Bronx.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Date: March 13, 2011 06:49AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Unions have a place but not in the field
> of Public servants. When they are unionizing
> against what is essentially the tax payers, the
> Union becomes the bully and I am completely
> against it.
> However in Wisconsin, I stand with the teachers
> and against the fire fighters and police unions. I
> think the teachers unions are getting screwed.
> The reason the teachers are gonna get screwed and
> the fire fighter and police are not is becasue the
> teachers have the weakest union and the Fire
> fighter and police is the most dominant unions in
> the country and each state. SO they get all they
> want and the teachers pay the price. SO you dont
> get rewarded based on value, you get rewared based
> on how well you can organize votes. That is why I
> despise it. Its political extortion and it happens
> everyday in south florida, where I live and am
> from.


Are you an American? Thats the way the Election system works. Thats the way its ALWAYS worked. Its called an agenda. EVERY Politician has one. Look at any successful politician and behind him is a handful of special interests that got them there.

Teachers have an important role, but they do not run into burning buildings, deal with death and blood DAILY, and have to deal with confrontation day after day. Minimizing what Police and Fire fighters do as political extortionists is not only completely ignorant its just plain wrong.

They need unions becuase the County and city council people are elected and ALL have agendas. Without sticking together they would be ass raped. Unions are far from perfect , but to say they are unecessary is just as ignorant statement as I've seen here.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 13, 2011 07:15AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 13, 2011 07:26AM

Do American Soldiers not do everyday task just as dangerous or more dangerous then police and fire fighters. DO the soldiers not make just as many if not more sacrifices then police and firefighters. Do they not work more hours then Police and firefighters. Should the military be able to unionize?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: March 13, 2011 07:45AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Mia1 ()
Date: March 13, 2011 08:01AM

ghotirule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey, I've served voluntarily. And not for a
> minute did I think that I should be part of a
> union. That is just a stupid comparison obviously
> made by someone that doesn't understand what it
> means to be a soldier.
>
> Your Union arguments are silly. I've also found
> that most of the people making anti union
> arguments are poor and living off the government
> through social security or some other subsidy.
>
> The fact is, over 90% of the money in the US goes
> to billionaires - that is a handful of people
> thousands of times more wealthy than Payton
> Manning. Unions are one of many ways that working
> people can get better wages. The billionaires
> hate this because they want more money, and since
> they own most institutions and media, they can
> control the rhetoric on this issue. You are a
> fool to buy into it the way you have. Seriously,
> the NFLPA union isn't even representative of a
> normal person's union, and even drawing a
> comparison here is silly.


Thats right Ghoti, people who never served don't understand.

The hours you put in the military sucks, but you sign up for it.

I did my time, sacraficed my sleep, my body, my mind, so you guy's can sleep warm at nite in your cozy bed's. Never once did I ask for you to thank me, because it was my JOB.

Ghoti stood his watch, as does Aqua. At least there man enough to enlist, and serve.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Date: March 13, 2011 09:13AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do American Soldiers not do everyday task just as
> dangerous or more dangerous then police and fire
> fighters. DO the soldiers not make just as many if
> not more sacrifices then police and firefighters.
> Do they not work more hours then Police and
> firefighters. Should the military be able to
> unionize?



Last time I checked Military vets and Soldiers get free College, Lifetime Medical, and Military preference fir being hired for jobs. Tons of other Benifits.

Cilvilian police and Firefighters do not and need a bargaining unit to get them what LITTLE they have. Would it help to get these things if they elect someone who agrees with them? SURE. Remember you are forgetting , Policemen and Firefighters are Citizens and Tax payers as well! You are forgetting that. So they smartly ORGANIZE and stick to a plan that the union members vote thats best for everyone. Its America True and Through, Red White and Blue. In other countries you get Killed for thinking about it. Whats going on in Wisconsin is sickening and only occuring because of the Socialist Pig in the White House trying to kill off the middle class American. 2012 can't come soon enough.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Unions
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: March 13, 2011 09:42AM


Options: ReplyQuote


Sorry, you can't reply to this topic. It has been closed.
This forum powered by Phorum.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     
   
Home Curt Fennell
Contact Us
DOLFAN in New England
TOP
   
© Phins.com. No portion of this site may be reproduced without
the express permission of the author, Curt Fennell. All rights reserved.