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          I'm with the owners
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This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Current Page: 2 of 7
Re: The Union can go suck one
Date: March 15, 2011 09:00AM

I'm a Union member , but I have to agree with the above statement. Not all Unions are good. The Players Union is made up of a bunch of selfish ego driven misfits.

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Re: The Union can go suck one
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: March 15, 2011 09:13AM

Quote:

"If the players don't like the rules, find another job like the rest of America."


&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Yeah, tell the best football players in the world to go somewhere else, then see how fast the NFL goes into the dumps when they have Joe Shmoes playing in the NFL.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: The Union can go suck one
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 09:20AM

it's so funny that once glen beck and rush start demonizing unions for political purposes, you start hearing this filtering out to football message boards.

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Re: The Union can go suck one
Posted by: Jim B ()
Date: March 15, 2011 09:42AM

Obviously, they would all go to Canada and play a 19 game season for less money.

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Re: The Union can go suck one
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 09:43AM

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:
>
> "If the players don't like the rules, find another
> job like the rest of America."
>
>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
> Yeah, tell the best football players in the world
> to go somewhere else, then see how fast the NFL
> goes into the dumps when they have Joe Shmoes
> playing in the NFL.


Didn't the USFL try and do that(sign top rated NCAA stars that were coveted by the NFL), can you go find the owners of the USFL teams and ask them how that went for them. I know how it went for the NFL team owners?

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Re: The Union can go suck one
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 09:48AM

Jim B Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obviously, they would all go to Canada and play a
> 19 game season for less money.


duh! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

That is one witty and cutting line....2 thumbs up!

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: March 15, 2011 10:18AM

The players are stuck in this realm of impossibility. They think their athletic powess will help them win an intellectual battle good luck players. Most of you pampered spoiled athletes are going to get what's coming to them. You idiots don't see that their isn't another leauge to go play for. The owners are beating you ignorant trifes at your own game.

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Re: The Union can go suck one
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 15, 2011 10:22AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's so funny that once glen beck and rush start
> demonizing unions for political purposes, you
> start hearing this filtering out to football
> message boards.


RESPONSE: Precisely. They even also have made the word "public union" a dirty word. Just on this board, one guy out and out criticized and demonized policemen and firemen. These people put their lives on the line for strangers everyday. Are there bad people in the human race? Duh... Are there bad people in every profession? Duhhhh.

But to lump them all in one category, even NFL players, is just as bad as saying that all dogs are bad because one dog bit someone.

Yeah, there are greedy players but there are greedy owners too. What people don't understand is that the purpose of a business is to make money.

There are two ways you can make money when you sell a product. You can either increase prices or reduce costs (obviously when you choose one, you keep the other the same).

Not paying players more or not letting them grab an equal share of a bigger pie or not letting them get a greater share of a pie that has remained the same size comes under reducing costs.

Both sides are "going for it." To demonize one side instead of the other is to only look at one side of the picture.

If you followed that same process in school, you would fail the course.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 10:22AM by ChyrenB.

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Re: The Union can go suck one
Date: March 15, 2011 10:23AM

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote:
>
> "If the players don't like the rules, find another
> job like the rest of America."
>
>
> &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
> Yeah, tell the best football players in the world
> to go somewhere else, then see how fast the NFL
> goes into the dumps when they have Joe Shmoes
> playing in the NFL.



What? You mean like College Football? No Ego's? Play your hearts out? Pride and brotherhood ? Lets Go!

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 10:28AM

Honestly there is a mjor difference between the 2 sides. WHich is why the 2 sides are taxed very differently. One side has a vested financial interest, invested and the other side doesnt.
WHen the players are taxed, they are taxed as ordinary income, and pay the highest tax fees because of this.
Now an owner on the other hand, he has to put money into the game in order to make money. HE has to put his own money at risk to create jobs in order for a chance to possibly make money. The players are guranteed certain monies with no financial risk or investment or job creation ot earn income. SO even the government or Uncle Sam look at the owners much differently then the players. Uncle Sam recognizes the difference between the 2. The owners pays capital gains tax of between 15 to 20 percent. The players pay ordinary income tax of 37 to 44 percent. So as much as the player want to convince you, how they are the same as the owners and should have these rights, it is not really living in the real world IMO. Just ask Uncle Sam.

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Re: The Union can go suck one
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 10:39AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's so funny that once glen beck and rush start
> demonizing unions for political purposes, you
> start hearing this filtering out to football
> message boards.


I think it started to happen when the President exempted the Unions and there Cadillac health packages from the health care plans the rest of us would be saddled with. This admimistrations cowtailing to Unions and all the big union money that went behind this president has dug the unions own grave. As much as you would like to blame Beck(who icant stand) or Rush(Who i have never listedned to) it is the unions leaders and political allies own actions. I could care less until I paid for 4 years of straight raises to govt employees and police and fire fighters in the midst of the worst depression since the great depression here locally. While tax bases were being destroyed the unions took more from the tax payer. SOrry but that put the bulls eye on them for me. It doesnt pass the smell test. SOrry if this didnt happen where you are from(and you think I am out of line), my issues are more local then anything. SO I understand some of you might not relate.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 15, 2011 10:42AM

But when you strip it all down, the same remains true. It is like the store owner of a mom and pop grocery store and his employee.

The employee is looking for wages and the store owner is looking for profits. That doesn't change.

Are you complaining that the owners get taxed higher? Well, he who makes the big money pays more in taxes. DUHHHHHHHHH.

Would you rather the more money you make, the less you get taxed?


And don't forget Darryl Stingley. Don't forget that the players are playing a dangerous game. Now, I'm not whining about the players, I'm defending them against someone who is saying, "Hey, the owners take all the risks and all the players do is sit back and collect the money."

So please (I know Crowder won't because he is too smart to do it) let's not have any idiots come back and say, "Why are you whining for the players." I'm only responding to Crowders' point that the players take no risk while the owners do.

But Crowder, it's the same as any business. Every business has "risk" that the employees don't take.........except for the fact that if the business GOES OUT OF BUSINESS, the employee loses as well.

If you look back at my prior post and search the word "Goose" you will see that time and time again, I posted that I can't believe that either side is stupid enough to actually kill the Goose that is laying the golden eggs.

Greed is a "MF." I take no sides in this fight but I do take great exception to some on this board (not you Crowder) who bash unions altogether without realizing that like BIG BUSINESS, UNIONS (as well as Big Business) are a necessary evil.

No one would like the world that had one without the other.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 10:47AM

Chyren the owners do pay a smaller percentage then the players. That was my point?

I respect union and its purpose. I just dont like when anyone takes adavantage of a postion of power. And I understand that no one is exempt from abusing power. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

I like Greed is MF.... that one works as well



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 10:53AM by Crowder52.

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Re: The Union can go suck one
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 15, 2011 10:57AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> I think it started to happen when the President
> exempted the Unions and there Cadillac health
> packages from the health care plans the rest of us
> would be saddled with.

RESPONSE: That's funny. You get guaranteed health care unless you work for the union itself? Are you sure?


This admimistrations
> cowtailing to Unions and all the big union money
> that went behind this president has dug the unions
> own grave.

RESPONSE: Oh, come on, Crowder, the unions back the Democrats and Big Corporations back the Republicans. You can't be so naive to think this just started with Obama. I have my problems with Obama mainly in the field of foreign relations and the war on terror but geez....if your mother-in-law moves into your home, it's Obama's fault!


As much as you would like to blame
> Beck(who icant stand) or Rush(Who i have never
> listedned to) it is the unions leaders and
> political allies own actions. I could care less
> until I paid for 4 years of straight raises to
> govt employees and police and fire fighters in the
> midst of the worst depression since the great
> depression here locally. While tax bases were
> being destroyed the unions took more from the tax
> payer. SOrry but that put the bulls eye on them
> for me. It doesnt pass the smell test.

RESPONSE: Here's the thing, public employees are paid by the public. Therefore, as a member of the public, you tend to think (erroneously) that "Hell, I'm having a tough time, why are the people whose employment I pay for with my taxes getting money. We should lower their pay. Or, they shouldn't get raises that were negotiated years ago."

Here's the thing, Crowder. In the private sector, contracts between labor and management tend to be short term. But because of the political dynamics in which you are expressing your opinion now, when public employees negotiate contracts, they tend to be for longer periods of time such as 5 years or 3 years.

The raises are negotiated without respect to the economic climate in 3 or 5 years because no one can predict that.

But I guarantee you, with the exception of policemen, firemen, and those who do work for which there are no comparisons in the private world, for lawyers, secretaries, doctors, clerks, etc., the pay in the private world is a lot better than the pay in the public sector.

Someone said that teachers may be the exception and that those for private schools get paid less. I don't know. If that is true, I would clearly worry about the quality of the teaching.


SOrry if
> this didnt happen where you are from(and you think
> I am out of line), my issues are more local then
> anything. SO I understand some of you might not
> relate.

RESPONSE: Yeah, a lot depends on the area that you are talking about. Blanket statements are made out of ignorance which is defined as a lack of knowledge.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 11:00AM

crowder, you think corporations and the uber-rich (i.e., nfl owners) don't get as many or more breaks, tax and otherwise, from the federal gov't and states than your run-of-the-mill union member?

and that players who risk severe injury in the game don't have as much on the line as nfl owners (a lot of whom inherited their $$ and did not work a legit day in their life) who have a capital investment (as do all business owners and investors) in something that they bought more for vanity/ego pursposes than a means of making a living?

I don't think either side is in the right here given the success of the league, but most of us are more like the players (and union workers) than the owners, so I can't underatand the vehemence and 1-sidedness against the players from most on this board.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 11:06AM


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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 15, 2011 11:16AM

Lunch's over. Will look at it later. Thanks.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 11:25AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> crowder, you think corporations and the uber-rich
> (i.e., nfl owners) don't get as many or more
> breaks, tax and otherwise, from the federal gov't
> and states than your run-of-the-mill union
> member?
>
> and that players who risk severe injury in the
> game don't have as much on the line as nfl owners
> (a lot of whom inherited their $$ and did not work
> a legit day in their life) who have a capital
> investment (as do all business owners and
> investors) in something that they bought more for
> vanity/ego pursposes than a means of making a
> living?
>
> I don't think either side is in the right here
> given the success of the league, but most of us
> are more like the players (and union workers) than
> the owners, so I can't underatand the vehemence
> and 1-sidedness against the players from most on
> this board.


Berk,
I am not talking about corporations I am talking about NFL owners and in some reference governments.
Yes Owners get a much greater tax break then the players that was my point in what I said. For instance when Wayne sold the team to Ross he only paid a 15 percent tax on the profits. A players who makes a million dollars is taxed federally at at around 40- 44 percent.
The players are claiming to be partners and that is why they have these rights. but in all reality they are not partners they are employees and taxed at ordinary income

WHen Wayne sold the team and made a bundle he didnt have to share any money with his partners the players. It was his investment and his return and the players are unionized employees not partners.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 11:28AM by Crowder52.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 11:33AM

I see what you're saying, but how does this make the players less sympathetic than the owners, which I gathered was the gist of your post? not that either is necessarily worthy of sympathy, but I don't get why everyone seems to be lining up with the "billionaires" vs the "millionaires"

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Leon In Denver ()
Date: March 15, 2011 11:35AM

Biggest problem with Public Unions is a huge conflict of interest. We all know that unions donate huge sums of money to Democrats. I really don't care about that except that the state and local politicians are the ones that are approving the public contracts. Well if that is not a conflict I don't know what is.
Now I know that the argument is that big business donates to the Republicans. However politicians don't negotiate or approve private sector contracts so there is no direct conflict.

CheyrenB brought out that many public contracts are long term and did not take into consideration what the economic impact would be in the future. That is the problem with public unions and politicians approving these contracts. In the private sector, economic forecasts must play into the negotiating process. We are seeing that now with the NFL owners.

Federal employees are mostly unionized and have very little collective bargaining rights so there is little conflict if any with Federal politicians. Big difference.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 11:43AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I see what you're saying, but how does this make
> the players less sympathetic than the owners,
> which I gathered was the gist of your post? not
> that either is necessarily worthy of sympathy, but
> I don't get why everyone seems to be lining up
> with the "billionaires" vs the "millionaires"


My point was the difference in the rights of the two, the players are claiming to be partners of the owners and therefore want partners rights in some cases, when all reality they are not partners.

I think the players have 1600 plus people to worry about with PR the owners have 32. The players have the rights of these young kids coming up for the draft, and if the they rain on there parade, they will get crushed even more PR.
I believe players walking away from the mediator and decertifying wasnt a good move and you are just beginning to see the publics reactions it will only get worse leading up to the draft IMO.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 12:02PM

Leon- there is some conflict, where as Govt does issues government contracts to private companies and that is another problem locally ie our local schoolboard. The difference is locally unions can guarantee votes, corporations can not. Corporations can not take dues out of their employees pay to build political war chest. Unions can and do. As I said I am against any abuse of power, no matter the side. But just as reference 85-90 percent of my local area politicans are democrats city and county.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2011 12:03PM by Crowder52.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Leon In Denver ()
Date: March 15, 2011 12:15PM

"Leon- there is some conflict, where as Govt does issues government contracts to private companies"
True as this is it is very easy to track and make public. Not as big a conflict and might not ever be a conflict as government contracts are bid on under government rules that include the Bacon act. Bacon Act are wages based on union contracts. This levels the playing field for bidders.
I agree that I dislike abuse of power also. I would like to see every politician get a set amount of money to campaign with. Even if it came from tax payers. Something like that anyway. Get the fund raising out of the picture.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 15, 2011 04:30PM


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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 15, 2011 04:43PM


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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: March 15, 2011 05:32PM


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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: ghotirule ()
Date: March 15, 2011 10:46PM


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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Phinjim ()
Date: March 16, 2011 03:24AM

> Cheyren: There are two ways you can make money when you sell a product. You can either increase prices or reduce costs (obviously when you choose one, you keep the other the same).

I think this is the basis of the problem for us the fan:

I propose that we actually reduce both! Yes radical and unlikely, but one way to increase satadium attendance and get an affordable product for the family again would be to:

1. Cut salaries to sonething reasonable, thus reducing costs - We have priced the average family our=t of actually attending games

2. Cut the prices to the fan attendees (leave the TV revenue as is)

3. Hopefully these moves increase fan attendance and makes up for revenue, but evenif it doesn't the profit margins for owners is enough to keep the game profitable, and with lower salaries, profits are acceptable.

What's the problem here? Player / and perhaps owner greed to continue a spiraling cost that keeps the average family proced out of it.

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Re: The Union can go suck one
Posted by: Mia1 ()
Date: March 16, 2011 05:05AM

College football. No egos?? LOL Ill only use one referance to laugh at that comment Cam Newton.

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Re: I'm with the owners
Posted by: Leon In Denver ()
Date: March 16, 2011 05:47AM

ghotirule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> However politicians don't negotiate or approve
> private sector contracts so there is no direct
> conflict.
>
> Not that I'm taking sides, but this is just plain
> wrong.

I'm talking about UNION contracts.

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