We obviously cant draft well, so you keep doing it if your season already looks like your not going to the playoffs and you keep searching for the chemistry within players for your organization to make it work. Look its not loser talk when we are not going anywhere, who cares if we lose or win? These games now mean nothing but just finishing out a mediocre season. The jets or pats vs the eagles or green bay in the superbowl, we can already see how it will play out, we are not in that mix of ball clubs. So for us, its better to get more draft picks that can make your club better next year, eventaully we have to get the combo right.

The scary part is we are one of the highest payout teams and teams like the Pats are getting it done with cheap players, so it might be the coaching and front office personal.

Here is another thing to consider...we have had six head coaches, six team philosophy changes, six new schemes and six roster turnovers, since 1996.

Thats major changes, top to bottom, every 2.3 years...you cannot build a winning team that way, continuity and stability is a key element that most people completely overlook.

You show me a team that does this as often as we have since Don Shula left and I'll show you a team that is at, or near, the bottom of the league, year in and year out.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But your notion that you "don't build a winner on
> losing" is utter nonsense.
>
> Every great team is built on the foundation
> provided by losing.
>
> Patriots sucked, then drafted Bledose #1 and made
> a Super Bowl with him. Lost a little more and
> went out and got Belechick. None of that happens
> if they just kept on winning.

And they've just kept on winning for the last 8 years, with mediocre drafts, "over-the-hill" free agents, injuries...they've just kept it going.

The loser mentallity makes me sick. It embrases failure as a means to an end. The only thing failure can do is develop character. Character rises above and finds a way to win.

We did this a couple of years ago when we pulled out the Wild Cat. We were a lousy team that found a way to beat teams that were better than us.

Winning must start with the system. It is a mentality. We must have a good system and then we must have great execution within. Getting that hero player doesn't magically transform us into a winning team.

Aquiring Brandon Marshall has not made us a better team. It just gives us fewer draft picks the next two seasons.

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
> btw...right now we are only on pick int he hole
> for Marshall. We got back the 2nd we gave up
> last year for him when we traded down in the 2010
> draft. We only are short the 2nd for next year
> (2011).


But, we traded away the #12 pick this year in order to get back one of those second rounders. So, it's not like we got it back for free.

I would never root for the team to lose in order to get a higher draft pick. Some draft picks work out, some don't. Personally, I want some stability in the organization. I want the team to keep building on what they've done. I don't want to tear it all down and start all over again. When Jimmy Johnson pushed Don Shula out, he acquired a handful of very good defensive players, but he failed to acquire any offensive talent at all. We've been going in circles ever since, with way too many coaching and GM changes. At some point, the carousel needs to stop.

there's a difference between rooting for us to lose and rooting for us to win but taking comfort in a season where playoffs are very unlikely that each loss gets us a higher draft pick. I root for us to win every game, but if we lose, I can deal wit it b/c in the big picture the loss *should* make us a better team in the future.

Finally some are seeing what I have been saying, lose now to win later. Why some don't see it and want to be proud and win in a year we aren't going anywhere. Once January 2nd comes, we will play the pats for the end of our season, and yes we will get hammered in that game. That game will show you how far we need to go

Well I for one don't think it will be an issue because I'll be very suprised in light of our injury situation if we win another game this season.

If that happens we should be picking somewhere close to 10 plus or minus.

The loser mentality can come back to bite you. Recall that when Elway was drafted he held out and refused to play for the loser team that drafted him and forced a trade. Same with Eli. Some superstars refuse to play for teams with the loser mentality and I'm certain that some that do get drafted end up not developing the winner mentality before they get waived or traded.

Give me a win any day. I don't find any solace in losing a single game...especially to the Patsies and Crop Dusters.

Losing is a curse. Drafting high is no guarantee of anything. The Detroit Lions have had a top 3 draft pick about 5 times in the last 10 years.

We weren't able to draft Marino by embracing a loser mentality. The draft will always be a roll of the dice and we won big that day.

NOT HAVING A LEGIT NFL QB = LOSING and LOSING SOME MORE.

I'm with ghotirule on this one. You play to win, not to lose.

We've lost PLENTY in the past 10 years; what has that gotten us? Not much.

THose obsessed with our draft position are the same people who always second-guess the draft selections anyway. So you want us to lose on purpose, to get a higher slot in the draft.

Draft rolls around, FO doesn't pick the player(s) you wanted. You post endlessly about how stupid the FO throughout the remainder of the offseason.

Regular season starts. After our first loss, the "I told you so" posts come out. If only the FO would have made the choices YOU wanted, we never would have lost, right? Once we post our second loss of the year, you want us to tank the season again so we can get a higher draft position again.

Draft rolls around....FO doesn't pick the players you wanted. See a pattern here?

I am totally against Laying down, I pay for tickets I want Max effort on every play of every game. The Pats do not lay down and seem to be good year after year... You play to win, no matter what you record is or what game of the season it is....