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          Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
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Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: September 28, 2009 05:48PM

Here goes. This is how it SHOULD go:

1. Trade Ginn THIS year while he still has value and pick up a draft pick or 2 for next year. If we can a good young ILB THIS year, strongly consider it!

2. Re-sign Brandon London! I haven't heard of him signing with anyone else. He'll be our 4th WR.

3. Start Hartline and Bess at WR. Camarillo can be the 3rd WR for now until he's fully healthy (at which point he'd replace Bess). This is our ALL HANDS team!! All 3 of these guys can catch, and THATs what you need at WR.

4. Put Turner in the weight room during offseason and bulk him up to be our future TE. He's got the hands but he's not fast. With his height, if he can ad 20-30 pounds of muscle, he'd be an ideal TE, better than Fasano and Haynos.

I'd add that we try Pat White at slot WR, but that's not an option now with Penny out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2009 08:13AM by Phinsfan2.

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Re: Receiver prediction
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: September 29, 2009 08:03AM

This would be the worst recieving corp in the NFL. You are going throught this whole scenario with numerous explanations, when there is only 1 that we need. A #1 WR.

We get a #1 WR....allow Ginn to be a true #2. Use Bess and Cammarillo as a slot WR where they are the best. And keep developing Hartline and Turner. This is all we need. Not that crazy trading, position swapping, mass building, situation that you say.

Just get a true #1 WR and all problems are settled.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Receiver prediction
Posted by: MiamiThunder ()
Date: September 29, 2009 10:01AM

Hartline is ready to play, hell when he is out there, he looks pretty solid, Turner to me appears to be a bust.

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Re: Receiver prediction
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: September 29, 2009 10:21AM

Come on Thunder, you cant be a bust after 3 weeks. It takes time to develop.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Receiver prediction
Posted by: MiamiThunder ()
Date: September 29, 2009 10:30AM

True, but he is slow, just didnt have that EUPH in pre-season, like he just fell off? So i dont know, but i do know Hartline need's and deserves to start he is ready, and looks pretty good to me.

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Re: Receiver prediction
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: September 29, 2009 03:04PM

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This would be the worst recieving corp in the NFL.
> You are going throught this whole scenario with
> numerous explanations, when there is only 1 that
> we need. A #1 WR.
>
How can we any get worse than we are now?

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Re: Receiver prediction
Posted by: RW13 ()
Date: September 29, 2009 04:06PM

How do you call someone a bust, when he is in his rookie year?

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Re: Receiver prediction
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: September 29, 2009 06:06PM


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Re: Receiver prediction
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: September 29, 2009 07:18PM

Phinfan:

1. Ginn's lack of ability to run routes, his unwillingness to take a hit, and his habit of dropping catches make him a liability even as a #2. If we don't trade him THIS year his value will surely drop. I think it's time we cut him loose and try to get something for him while he still has value.

2. I just figured, if we traded Ginn for draft picks, we'll need to fill an open WR position. London already has experience on this team and with this offense, so he's a logical choice to fill the 5th WR spot.

3. Turner hasn't been active yet. When will he get an opportunity to play? We're not going to activate 5 WRs as long as we have 4 RBs.

4. Turner's not fast enough to be effective unless he's the 2nd-coming of Oronde Gadsden. Either way, unless we have someone like Randy Moss on the other side, Turner isn't going to get much of a chance.

5. As for White, now that we have Thigpen, I say let's give it a try! If White can show versatility, it could really open up our offense. With him in the slot he'll be a threat to throw or catch!

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Ginn reset
Posted by: realist ()
Date: September 30, 2009 06:47AM

Some of you guys are going overboard on Ted Ginn.

Yes you have a right to be frustrated by the disparity between his draft position and his production. NO DOUBT! he is not playing like a #1 WR.

BUT....he is a good #2 WR and would be a very good #2 if the team had a #1 on the field.

Ginn made 56 catches last year. He CAN catch. He is actually on pace to have 70 catches this season. He is Never going to be our #1. that is well established. But we have him under contract with a pro-rated signing bonus that makes him expensive to cut.

No-one is going to give us anything of value because of the contract/production disparity. So he is ours.

What do you do with a #2 WR is going to cost you money whether he plays or doesn't?

You play him. You surround him with as much talent as you can. It is a mistake to put Camarillo and Bess with him. They do not create space they take advantage of space created by others. Ginn Creates space. We need Hartline or Turner on the field with him, and then Bess or Camarillo in the slot.

Next year we draft/sign a legit #1 and Ginn becomes a very valuable asset.

benching/cutting is an emotional reaction to the frustration of his draft investment; it doesn't make good football sense.

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Re: Ginn reset
Posted by: MiamiThunder ()
Date: September 30, 2009 07:04AM

It makes perfect sense, when were in a loosing season, and have two rookies, who need the playing time for us to evaluate where they stand.

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Re: Ginn reset
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: September 30, 2009 07:37AM

Cutting him is certainly out of the question. Trading him makes no sense because we wouldn't get much in the way of compensation. Benching him yet? No. I certainly wouldn't rule it out if he goes another 2 or 3 games with minimal catches (especially if those minimal catches are in conjunction with dropped balls). I think the frustration with Ginn stems from who picked him (Cameron) and how high he was picked. Moreover, he's been less than spectacular as a punt/kick returner (which was supposed to be where he would have the greatest impact. Patrick Cobb and Davone Bess are fairly pedestrian return men who apparently are believed to be a better option than the #9 overall pick who was supposed to electrify the return game. Hindsight being 20/20, Patrick Willis would've helped this team a hundred times more than Ginn. That said, Brady Quinn is looking more and more like a bust (and the majority of the fans wanted us to select him).

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Re: Ginn reset
Posted by: RW13 ()
Date: September 30, 2009 08:02AM

Let's not forget, that he has gotten behind the secondary on several occasions this year and we have overthrown him or completely missed him all together.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: toko34 ()
Date: September 30, 2009 08:50AM

Who was the guy that said convert Ginn to a CB, haha not a bad idea in retrospect.

Put him in as a nickleback..

Bad hands wont hurt him there, nor would fear of getting hit, and his speed will let him make up for mental mistakes... hmmmm.

Just teach him to grab legs and he could tackle all those guys that run past our safeties.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: September 30, 2009 08:56AM


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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 30, 2009 08:59AM

He will not be cut and he will not be benched.

We are going to bench him now that henne is the qb?

I wanna see what he can do with a qb that has a strong arm and can stretch the field. Maybe henne is that guy.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: September 30, 2009 09:04AM

again, in my mind, benched = not starting.

I want something to happen so that he'll realize how important it is to capitalize on opportunities. I want him to realize that if he's not starting, his opportunities will be more limited and that his next contract is based upon current production.

I want him to be available to catch a long ball or two next game from Henne. But, I want him to freakin' catch them because in the back of his mind is 'If I don't catch this ball, it could cost me millions of dollars'. This year, the idea that 'If I don't catch this ball, we will lose' does not seem to make a difference in his performance.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: September 30, 2009 09:23AM


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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 30, 2009 09:38AM

I want him to catch the ball real high in the air without been afraid of contact. That would mean someone related to him went to the store and bought him a pair of B@LL$.

Can someone inject ginn with a shot of guts please.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: realist ()
Date: September 30, 2009 09:47AM

While I understand the sentiment behind making guys 'earn' their playing time or 'lighting a fire under them'; I put significantly more emphasis on the X & O dynamics.

If you take Ginn off the field you take our only deep speed off the field. The safeties cheat down and sit on the middle routes thus reducing the space available to the WR's on the field trying to 'earn' their time.

Keep Ginn on the field ( whether he deserves it or not) and 1 safety must help over top creating space underneath for one of the other guys.

he has to be there until we have another speedster.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 30, 2009 09:52AM

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While I understand the sentiment behind making
> guys 'earn' their playing time or 'lighting a fire
> under them'; I put significantly more emphasis on
> the X & O dynamics.
>
> If you take Ginn off the field you take our only
> deep speed off the field. The safeties cheat down
> and sit on the middle routes thus reducing the
> space available to the WR's on the field trying to
> 'earn' their time.
>
> Keep Ginn on the field ( whether he deserves it or
> not) and 1 safety must help over top creating
> space underneath for one of the other guys.
>
> he has to be there until we have another
> speedster.


I agree with everything you say here. Plus now is not the time to bench him . I hope they give him lots of reps with henne. Maybe they can gel by the 3rd or 4th game.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: September 30, 2009 10:01AM


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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: grooves12 ()
Date: September 30, 2009 10:16AM

The problem is we are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole...

We have solid slot receivers in Camarillo/Bess... and we have a deep threat in Ginn.

The Problem is we do not have anyone to go over the middle, consistently move the chains and make the clutch play on the intermediate routes. In other words we don't have a go-to guy (aka #1 receiver.)

Ginn has his value. Despite him not having great hands on a lack of precision route-running, his speed can't be ignored. If you have a true number one opposite him and just have him run go routes and deep slants, teams WILL have to respect it with a safety deep. That opens up the middle for that #1 go to make plays. The problem is we are trying to force Ginn into making plays in traffic, which he doesn't have the right skills to do, we have nobody opposite him to do deep and clear out the middle, and it all builds on top of each other and the whole thing crumbles.

I could easily see Ginn getting 60-70 catches and 1000yds lined up as a deep threat #2 receiver... but only if we have a stud opposite him getting most of the targets.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: September 30, 2009 10:59AM

Here's the dilemma. Realistically, what other team would want Ginn?

I think that Ginn is undergoing a crisis of confidence.

The kid had to have the talent to make to this level.

I am sure he CAN be all that is expected of him.

However, at this point it is mental.

Until he overcomes his crisis of confidence and again begins to believe in himself, he will not show himself to be the good and near great receiver I really think deep down he is.


Once he begins to believe in himself (and it may only take a couple of good catches to bring back that confidence) then we will have a realistic option of trading him.

But right now, any other team would have to be foolish to offer anything worth having for him.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: September 30, 2009 11:10AM

In spite of how my posts above have looked, I still maintain optimism for Ginn. He has something you can't teach and that is incredibly valuable to a winning football team.

I don't think he's a prototypical #1, and he will never be Irvin, TO, Fitz, etc. Nor will he be Steve Smith or Hines Ward. The best comparison is Harrison.

I am not calling for him to be a #1 in the mold of those players, and really not at all. I want him to produce results commensurate with his abilities and potential.

I don't understand a couple of things, I guess:
(1) what can be done to improve his catch rate?
(2) what specifically is he being asked to do as our current #1 that he just shouldn't be asked to do because he'll never be that '#1'? My feeling is that if he beats the coverage and gets two hands on the ball for a game-winning or drive-sustaining catch, then it doesn't matter if he's a #1 or #2.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: MiamiThunder ()
Date: September 30, 2009 12:15PM

Well i read all your opinions, and obviously you guys think like the coachs do, and what has that gotten us this year? Ted Ginn needs to be in a trade package to somone ANYONE, for a top tier wideout. Hartline not as fast, but fast enough, and not afraid to take that hit, not to mention can catch balls, he could do what Ginn does blind-folded. Ginn is a lost cause, yeah he can run straight, and get behind the defense's, but if the most accurate passer in the NFL history cant hit him in stride, i feel its Ginn's fault. Two diff QB'S couldnt hit him in stride, and i dought Henne will.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: September 30, 2009 12:58PM

I think with a legitimate weapon opposite of him, Ginn would flourish.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: MiamiThunder ()
Date: September 30, 2009 01:07PM

A possibility, but not worth the money he makes.

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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: September 30, 2009 01:13PM


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Re: Receiver prediction/Ginn Reset
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: September 30, 2009 01:21PM

I have said time and time again Phinsfan, Ginn could be Jerry Rice and there would still be people who hate him.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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