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          Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: socalphin ()
Date: September 27, 2021 10:13AM

And Im not talking about the glare that comes off his dome during pressers...

I'm talking about the shiny optimistic outlook I had about him early on, as his first season ended on a 5-4 note, after starting 0-7 with minimal talent.

Fast forward to week 3 of his 3rd season, and I've witnessed back to back ass-kickings from the Bills, in meaningful games.

In meaningful games, when I think of good/great HCs, they're teams at least show up prepared and ready to play. Their strategies are inspired and well thought out, and actually make a positive impact on the game.
All of the above was absent in last 2 vs the Bills.

The excuses are wearing thin now.
The ongoing OC hires have been questionable and regressing.
Players(OL) aren't developing, and seem to be playing out of position.
Other than X making plays, the D seems to be poorly schemed, and regressing in over-all effectiveness.

I know it's waaay too early in the season to pass judgement on BFlo yet. But I think by year's end, we'll have a pretty good idea of what we've got, and a REAL decision will need to made re retaining him or moving on from him AND Chris Grier(who needs to go regardless).

Are we ready for another complete rebuild from GM down??
My head hurts just thinking about it...

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Date: September 27, 2021 07:14PM

No. I actually love his style of coaching. He goes for it on 4-2. He generally believes in his players. I love the guy. He is giving them great opportunities but they are not "doing thier jobs".

He does not believe in Tua. He takes him out of plays so he doesn't get hurt. Alot good that did him. But he didn't draft him.

No Flores is one thing we got right.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: September 28, 2021 02:29AM

We've had lots of coaches since Shula. Johnson was probably the best post-Shula, and the jury is still out on Flores.

There are coaching and training problems along with questionable position moves, especially on the O-line. I do think it was a mistake to let Fitzpatrick go as he was a guy that Tua could learn from in a variety of ways--Flores too.

Do I think the shine is diminishing on Flores? Yes, I do. However, its not beyond "re-polishing" to get that sparkle bright again. I am hopeful that can happen. I am also hopeful that the Dolphins can win 10 games, but "hopeful" is often in the category of wishful thinking and that is often far from reality. Flores must improve team play at all positions IMO. The biggest problem is the offense and that can be broken down into o-line play and QB play. Both aren't good.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 28, 2021 04:39AM

The oline and qb position are the biggest problem with this team for a while. Agreed.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: Hooligan2 ()
Date: September 28, 2021 06:01AM

Some growing pains are to be expected. I think Flores is the best we've had in years. As expected, he's concentrated on the defense because that's what he knows best. Now, he needs to find an answer on offense besides just throwing OCs at the problem and, he should be allowed to get HIS QB. There's a story on Bleacherreport that he wanted to draft Herbert instead of Tua and, was over-ruled, (presumably by Ross). That tells me that he's a decent judge of talent. He should be given at least 2 or 3 more years to mold his team.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: September 29, 2021 06:38AM

I'm okay with Flores, it's his assistants I'm unhappy with.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: September 29, 2021 08:33AM

Making a significant change at OC during the season isn't going to work. Hiring "former" top linemen (retired) to assist the assistant coaches by teaching technique might be a good thing to do. I am sure for the right money, one or two highly respected tackles, guards and center could provide useful tips to our O-line players that would improve their play as a unit. These guys would act as instructors with first hand experience in the trenches.

As for play calling--that's in the joint OC world currently with the Dolphins. I don't think either person is terrible per se, together, not so good. Too indecisive. Pick one or the other. That person has to own it.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: September 30, 2021 11:31AM

Gone for Grier, time to go

Two unproven OC?

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: socalphin ()
Date: September 30, 2021 02:34PM

It's real easy math guys.

What you see on the field = GM's aptitude level

$#!T SHOW (2021 Phins) = Chris Grier (below average is being nice)

There is a direct correlation between FO personnel and winning on the field at a high level...DUH.

Apply that axiom to the Dolphins, and it screams GET RID OF CHRIS GRIER!!!

Losing Grier is the easy part.

Finding a bonafide, well respected person to fill the GM role will take some time, ample effort, and whatever resources necessary to make the RIGHT choice this time.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Date: September 30, 2021 03:50PM

socalphin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's real easy math guys.
>
> What you see on the field = GM's aptitude level
>
> $#!T SHOW (2021 Phins) = Chris Grier (below
> average is being nice)
>
> There is a direct correlation between FO personnel
> and winning on the field at a high level...DUH.
>
> Apply that axiom to the Dolphins, and it screams
> GET RID OF CHRIS GRIER!!!
>
> Losing Grier is the easy part.
>
> Finding a bonafide, well respected person to fill
> the GM role will take some time, ample effort, and
> whatever resources necessary to make the RIGHT
> choice this time.

Jimmy Johnson. He's got a cushy gig nowa days but he knows how to build a dynasty. He understood the salary cap and the importance of draft picks before anyone. Ross should throw a nice offer his way....he's only a helicopter ride away in the Keys.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: pafinfan ()
Date: October 01, 2021 05:40PM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> socalphin Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It's real easy math guys.
> >
> > What you see on the field = GM's aptitude level
> >
> > $#!T SHOW (2021 Phins) = Chris Grier (below
> > average is being nice)
> >
> > There is a direct correlation between FO
> personnel
> > and winning on the field at a high level...DUH.
> >
> > Apply that axiom to the Dolphins, and it
> screams
> > GET RID OF CHRIS GRIER!!!
> >
> > Losing Grier is the easy part.
> >
> > Finding a bonafide, well respected person to
> fill
> > the GM role will take some time, ample effort,
> and
> > whatever resources necessary to make the RIGHT
> > choice this time.
>
> Jimmy Johnson. He's got a cushy gig nowa days but
> he knows how to build a dynasty. He understood the
> salary cap and the importance of draft picks
> before anyone. Ross should throw a nice offer his
> way....he's only a helicopter ride away in the
> Keys.

I like the idea of Jimmy Johnson in charge of the draft. If Ross wants to keep Grier, let Grier wheel & deal to get the picks & JJ can use them. If Ross would be willing to spend it I bet the right price could be found.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: socalphin ()
Date: October 03, 2021 01:40PM

It started to wear off in the 2nd Buffalo debacle, got a lot thinner after the Vegas trip, and now it's completely gone.

I'm talking total regression from last year.
Through 4 weeks of the 2021 season, the Dolphins rank at/or near the bottom in every conceivable NFL stat. Both Offensively and Defensively.

I kinda get it on offense, but this dude is supposed to be some "defensive guru", from the Billicek tree.
The D got gashed today for over 100 yds on barely a dozen carries..., got lit up through the air with a QB on 2 sprained ankles and a decimated o-line....WTF B Flo??!!

Knowing Steve Ross, he'll fire Grier and promote Flores to HC/GM, instead of getting rid of both of them like he should.

This is all on Ross' plate now. If he can't see what an unmitigated disaster Chris Grier has been, then we're really F#@%ED!

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: October 03, 2021 06:18PM

It seems to me that, currently, the team's sort of reeling beyond what one might expect from the individual circumstances that have impacted the team so far this year - injuries being top of mind. When Raekwon & Tua went down, I told my son that the 3 players I'd least want to see injured were those 2 and X. It's like they can't get their $hit together anywhere and it's at times like these that true leaders step up and bring out the best in everyone. I honestly don't know who our team's leaders are among the players, and I think Flores is but can't point to another leader among the coaches.

On the player side, my guess is that - beyond the obvious subtraction of Fitz - the likes of players like KVN and Karras provided the kind of player leadership that calmed the storm when things looked tumultuous. I think we really didn't replace the experience we let go with players like them.

Related, I do think that the decision to be one-and-done with key FA signings from 2020 hurt the player/coach relationship and, therefore, Flores' leadership. I don't know how those decisions were made, but have to guess that Flores was - to some degree - on board with them being cut.

On the offensive side, we certainly don't have a system in place that can transcend youth, inexperience, etc...sort of masking lack of leadership. I do think we have that on defense, for what it's worth.

At an individual level, I can't freakin believe how bad Brissett is. Dude is so terribly inaccurate and just doesn't seem to do much with any rhythm. We don't have a mature offensive system, but all of us know they were hoping to do a lot of RPO and quick timing throws that to speedy/shifty receivers who could then add YAC. As it is, we're freakin throwing short passes with no timing/accuracy and in a disjointed way where Brissett seems to waste motion in the pocket "pre-avoiding" contact a lot (at least that's what it looks like to me).

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: October 04, 2021 03:43AM

The Dolphins haven't hit rock bottom yet. They will when the are manhandled by the Jests. I don't expect a Dolphins win. sad smiley

Agree, the team has regressed.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: Hooligan2 ()
Date: October 04, 2021 04:28AM

The Jest beat the Titans yesterday. They are an up and coming team with a very good coach and QB. They will be a force within the division in short order. Losing to them this season is a strong possibility.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: Ken ()
Date: October 04, 2021 08:58AM

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gone for Grier, time to go
>
> Two unproven OC?


RE: Can’t always have a proven guy. If all you want is a proven guy then no one would have one. Everyone is unproven until such time as the are proven. Usually the proven guys don’t change teams or the get to be head coaches.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Date: October 04, 2021 09:28AM

Someone said this before...

Who called the screen pass in the end zone causing a safety last week?

That dude should have been kicked to the curb immediately. Then we can zero in on the OC left and kick his ass as well.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/04/2021 09:28AM by TreasurecoastPhinsfan.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: socalphin ()
Date: October 04, 2021 10:03AM

If B-Flo had any balls and coaching acumen, he'd dump the 3-headed OC approach, and take the offensive play sheet and call the plays himself!

Lead from the front!!
If he doesn't have the ability to do so, then he's gotta go!

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: pafinfan ()
Date: October 04, 2021 10:30AM

I could be wrong and I don't remember the exact words.

Didn't one of the OC's say they have to play offense according to what the Defense shows them?

Shouldn't it be the other way around? Force the D to play the way you want to play?

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: Hooligan2 ()
Date: October 04, 2021 10:39AM

It came out during the game yesterday that it's the QB coach that's calling the plays.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Date: October 04, 2021 11:24AM

pafinfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could be wrong and I don't remember the exact
> words.
>
> Didn't one of the OC's say they have to play
> offense according to what the Defense shows them?
>
> Shouldn't it be the other way around? Force the D
> to play the way you want to play?


Absolutely. Stretch the field, make them play the run honest.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: October 04, 2021 01:45PM

I like the idea of JJ coming to the rescue as the new GM, however, as I believe it was Treasure who said, he has a cushy job right now. However, we have seen a lot of shakeups in the NFL shows where people are there for a time, then all of a sudden youth movement is required (when I say youth movement, it is the players/coaches who have retired). Maybe if he is offered the job with a good salary, he may take it?

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Date: October 04, 2021 04:31PM

Jimmy knows talent. The last time we had a HOF player was 2 players he drafted. Soon to be 54 and of course 99.
That was 25 yrs ago. What a horrible horrible drafting record since then.

That would be fantastic to see. And hes a full time South Florida resident......

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: October 07, 2021 04:30AM

Since I am in such a lousy mood over this team, I have to wonder what role Dan Marino has with assessing the talent of prospective and current players. Is he just another pretty face and former Dolphins celebrity, someone who merely sits with Ross at games? Hmmm.

We need an offense minded coach to develop a game plan. Is the team going to be a throwing team, a running team, a balanced team on offense? The current offense has no identity, IMO. They are weak run blocking, pass blocking and allow too little time for the QB to see the field or for the WRs or TE to get into position for a pass. No QB can survive the onslaught by the opposing defense with such a porous offensive line. If the current group of O-linemen aren't developed to act as a unit with an offensive game plan the 2021 season is just another--back to the drawing board event. Tired of that!

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Date: October 07, 2021 05:14AM

Great question. I love Marino. My first son is named Daniel after him.but he was let go from HBO sports for a reason. He never seemed to be that knowledgeable about other players. Ross likes to surround himself with famous faces. I sadly believe Marino is nothing more. Jimmy Johnson didn't even take his advice in 2000 to make Daman Huard the starting QB after his retirement.

Elway went on to the GM of the Broncos and brought them another championship with Manning. This needs to stop. Us living in the past. Although I believe Jimmy Johnson could help us win again, he has and continues to be a wealth of knowledge on evaluating players and winning. Dan Marino just does not. Sorry. sad smiley

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: astro34 ()
Date: October 07, 2021 05:56AM

To many of the newer OC look at the defense and try to call the plays that can work against that defense. Problem is all defenses are good at disguising things. Call our best play and run it, if its taken away improvise. Its not rocket science.

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: October 07, 2021 07:18AM

If nobody has been able to fix this team in over 25 years i dont see the light at the end of the tunnel anytime soon.

Unless they sell the team and do a rebiltlike the ravens did.

We are scccccccrewd

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Posted by: astro34 ()
Date: October 07, 2021 07:57AM

Can they please stop talking about Deshaun Watson. If we trade for him I will be forced to find a new team. Stop making decisions because the media is talking about it. Tank for Tua was all that was said for two years.... what has that gotten us. Stop already

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Date: October 07, 2021 08:23AM

astro34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To many of the newer OC look at the defense and
> try to call the plays that can work against that
> defense. Problem is all defenses are good at
> disguising things. Call our best play and run it,
> if its taken away improvise. Its not rocket
> science.

Great point. thumbs up

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Is the shine starting to wear off B Flo??
Date: October 07, 2021 08:26AM

astro34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can they please stop talking about Deshaun Watson.
> If we trade for him I will be forced to find a
> new team. Stop making decisions because the media
> is talking about it. Tank for Tua was all that
> was said for two years.... what has that gotten
> us. Stop already


I'm not completely sold on Watson.....but our only other option is waiting until 2023 when we have the picks to move up for yet another unproven rookie. Lots of #1s don't pan out. Watson is great , and wants to come here. TUA is a glass statue. I'm convinced he's not going to or ever be the answer.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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