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          Revised Draft offseason
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This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: January 31, 2021 08:06AM

So the stafford trade may or may not change the Lions search for a QB replacement

Watson still in play, expect Phins will make an offer but may not be more than Tua, #3 and next year's #1. Will Jets or Lions offer like 4 #1's?

If not say trade down and get extra picks and grab

Allen Robinson FA

Waddle or Kedarious Toney Tyreke Hill II
Quinn Meinerz
Harris, Etienne Jevonte Williams or Michael Carter
Richie Grant
Chazz Surratt



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/31/2021 08:07AM by jlyell13.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Date: January 31, 2021 09:08AM

With a $156 million contract....no I don't expect the Dolphins to make an offer. They still might , but I certainly don't expect it.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: January 31, 2021 01:04PM

Well you thought it was just a silly rumor. Thats how much you know thats going to happen

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: January 31, 2021 01:55PM

I also don't think Miami will make this trade. Watson's contract is sky high and I'm not too sure about his attitude. He is the QB; he's not in the front office.

Stick with Tua: get him some weapons and hope the NFL can once again return to normal, i.e., training camp, etc.

If Tua still doesn't do the job, then work for next season and a new QB(s).

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: January 31, 2021 05:52PM

Add me to the list of not thinking the Dolphins will trade for Watson. I think he'd cost even more than Stafford did for the Rams.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: January 31, 2021 06:00PM

That salary is what you pay for top 5 QB

if they dont and Tua isn't the answer when do we get another top 10 pick?

Wouldnt be surprised for the Lions to offer Goff and 4 firsts

With Howard whining again for a new deal could see them offering Tua, #3, Howard and next years #1

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: February 01, 2021 07:01AM

Regarding Watson we should put our cards on the table #3, Tua, Jones and 2022 #1. We can up by giving them Howard vs Jones but I would not raise our offer any further than that.

We would still have plenty of ammo for the draft:

1 Harris RB AL
2 Bateman WR MN
2 Humphrey C OK
3 Mukuamu DB SC
4 Brown T N IA
5 Williams S SYR from HOU
6 White QB MEM
7 Jefferson RB OR ST
7 Bussey WR HI

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Date: February 01, 2021 07:43AM

LOL. Howard? Howard and our defense is the only reason we almost made the playoffs. You dont trade playmakers for more expensive ones with attitude problems.

Players have to know they have some job security here as well. Its part of the whole culture this organization is trying to develop. The exact opposite of what the Texans have and quite honestly what Miami had when Philbin and GASE were here.

Howard is a cornerstone of a defense along with guys like Van Ginkle and OBGAH that are getting it done. Teams like the Chiefs took notice last season. Work on fixing the offense not trading away your defense. Thats not going to balance it out. Thats just gonna make it lopsided the other way.

Work on upgraded the offense through the draft and free agency along with the defense. You dont take away from it unless you have amazing depth which I dont see.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: Hooligan2 ()
Date: February 01, 2021 08:25AM

Trading back is the only option that makes sense IF you can find the right trade partner. Stockpile 1st round picks for next year and still be able to get the elite RB and WR in the first round this year. Trade Xavien Howard if you can get 2 first rounders for him.
Roll with Tua for another year and draft his replacement in the 1st next year if he's no better than average by the end of next season. I'm in favor of drafting a later round QB this years if somebody like Marino makes the pick. Keep Ross out of the war room.
Stay away from Watson. Those type of blockbuster trades NEVER work out. The trade for Rickey Williams cost Ditka his job. The trade that sent Hershel Walker to the Vikings was great for Dallas, not so much for Minnesota. The trade for RG111 was another disaster.
I'm about 95% sure that Miami won't make that trade but,, the wildcard is the fact that the Savant that thought of Drafting Tua at #5 is still out there and getting paid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/01/2021 10:07AM by Hooligan2.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: Grimey13 ()
Date: February 01, 2021 09:05AM

I like your plan Hooligan except the part about trading Howard. I do not want to trade Howard. Of course who am I to make that decision.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Date: February 01, 2021 09:43AM

You don't trade your play makers. Imagine this team last season if we still had Landry!?

You can't take 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: Hooligan2 ()
Date: February 01, 2021 10:03AM

Howard had a great year, no doubt. His stock is crazy inflated. If it was a guarantee that he was going to have another year like that the choice would be simple, keep him. Nothing is certain, in fact, it's likely that he won't have another year like that, other teams will avoid throwing his way. If you can get a Tunsil type deal for him you take it. That's what the Patriots did for 20 years with pretty good results. I'm not saying to actively shop him but, let somebody overpay for him and use your bounty of draft picks and find that next gem.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Date: February 01, 2021 10:25AM

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Howard had a great year, no doubt. His stock is
> crazy inflated. If it was a guarantee that he was
> going to have another year like that the choice
> would be simple, keep him. Nothing is certain, in
> fact, it's likely that he won't have another year
> like that, other teams will avoid throwing his
> way. If you can get a Tunsil type deal for him you
> take it. That's what the Patriots did for 20 years
> with pretty good results. I'm not saying to
> actively shop him but, let somebody overpay for
> him and use your bounty of draft picks and find
> that next gem.




I'm not a betting man. But If I had to bet on a proven player over a d
New draft pick, id take the proven player.

The Tunsil trade was different. We were rebuilding. Having a great olineman and nothing else made no sense.

You don't trade a cornerstone of a great defense. It was meshing it was causing big stirs last season. Of course everything has a price....but I'd be disappointed not to see Howard play here next season. He's a dangerous player everyteam has to account for.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: Hooligan2 ()
Date: February 01, 2021 11:34AM

It's simple math, you can't have two of the highest paid corners in the league and then start dreaming about getting JJ Watt to come play for you, especially when your defense is already one of the best around. You just can't keep everybody that wants to get paid.
That's what I love about Flores, he's a defensive coach. Year two of a total rebuild and the defense is already one of the best, Make no mistake, Xavien Howard is the product of a well designed defense.
New England had Ty Law, one of the best, a cornerstone of their defense. He was traded for multiple draft picks, same with Lawyer Milloy. It's a successful business model.
Buy low, sell high, it's as simple as that.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Date: February 01, 2021 12:49PM

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's simple math, you can't have two of the
> highest paid corners in the league and then start
> dreaming about getting JJ Watt to come play for
> you, especially when your defense is already one
> of the best around. You just can't keep everybody
> that wants to get paid.
> That's what I love about Flores, he's a defensive
> coach. Year two of a total rebuild and the defense
> is already one of the best, Make no mistake,
> Xavien Howard is the product of a well designed
> defense.
> New England had Ty Law, one of the best, a
> cornerstone of their defense. He was traded for
> multiple draft picks, same with Lawyer Milloy.
> It's a successful business model.
> Buy low, sell high, it's as simple as that.



Whats your end goal? Getting rich or winning a championship? You got something that works you keep it until it doesn't. You build on it. Draft picks are awesome for the end goal is a Championship . Last years defense was amazing at times. Mahones didn't know what hit him.

A good jab without a nice knockout punch is useless. After we turn it over we need to score. Run the ball &dominate the clock.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: Hooligan2 ()
Date: February 01, 2021 04:24PM

If you want to win (A) championship you play the short game, if you want to build a dynasty you play the long game.
Howard was drafted in the 2nd round but now he wants to be the highest paid corner in the league. If you try to hold onto too many of the high priced tallent pretty soon you're back in cap hell especially if you luck onto a great QB who also wants to be paid.
If somebody offers you a couple of firsts for a player that you got in the second round you jump all over that deal and help him pack. Do that a few times and you're well on your way to building a dynasty.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Date: February 01, 2021 04:51PM

I've seen too many great players leave here and go on to win Championships. If someone is offering that kind of trade value there's a reason. Pay the man. You cant win without great defense as well as offense.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: Hooligan2 ()
Date: February 02, 2021 05:57AM

Treasure, help me out here,, there was a poster on here that was always preaching to SamSam that "It takes a team". Sound familiar? It makes a lot of sense really.
In the combine leading up to the draft Howard was ranked the 8th best corner in the draft by NFLDraftscout.com, he was ranked 9th best corner by Mike Mayock and Gil Brandt and, was ranked 15th best defensive back by Sports Illustrated. He was projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Nothing there screams "Generational Talent" KEEP AT ALL COSTS, nothing.
We already have one of the better defenses in the league and you want to throw another pile of money at it to keep it together but yet, you say we can't afford to pay Watson?
Well, I don't really want Watson either but, you got to admit, the Offense needs some work.
It's wise to be prudent about spending because it's my understanding that cap numbers are coming down in response to the Covid effect.
All this is just conjecture, nobody has made a trade offer, maybe won't but, if somebody does offer two 1st rounders you take it and build the team because, "It takes a team".
In a great defensive system sombody else will step up maybe, the next 9th best corner in the draft.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: February 02, 2021 06:00AM

It doesnt matter in what round you were drafted...you donnt trade a superstar like howard.

Would you had traded brady for 4 first round picks? He was picked in the 6th round.

You dont trade your suoerstars. You try and add more great players. Contracts can always be restructured. More signing bonus less money against the cap. There is always things that can be done to be within the salary cap.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Date: February 02, 2021 08:37AM

Howard has proven to be a consistent player maker. Not only is he shutting down his recievers and cuasing turnovers, he's made it easier for other players like Van Ginkle to concentrate on the run and other aspects of defense like Mohanes 30 Yd sack..

I just hate to see players we developed and making an impact go elsewhere. Thats a step back and I want to keep moving forward.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2021 11:40AM by TreasurecoastPhinsfan.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: February 02, 2021 08:43AM

We agree on that tcpf.smileys with beer

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Date: February 02, 2021 08:07PM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We agree on that tcpf.smileys with beer


Hey.......even a broken clock is right once a day.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: February 02, 2021 09:22PM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You don't trade your play makers. Imagine this
> team last season if we still had Landry!?
>
> You can't take 1 step forward and 2 steps back.

I think the Landry trade was was much more about the team's circumstances than the idea of whether it was a good idea in and of itself to trade him for a 4th and 7th. CLE got the better end of the deal by a good measure for a guy who's really never hurt and pretty consistently is good for an average of about 90 catches & 1000 yards. He got traded and for so little because Gase was our coach and our culture was awful.

Fast forward to 2021 and Flores has created and led a culture where FA's are specifying us as their preferred destination and even Watson lets it leak early on that he'd waive his no-trade for us as the only team mentioned. I'm not saying that acquiring Watson or trading Howard either one is a good idea. I'm more pointing out that our team's current circumstance puts us in a better position for any player acquisition/divestiture...we have more leverage vs. in the past where pretty much every other team had leverage over us that way.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: February 03, 2021 05:29AM

I agree tcpf. You are right this time.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Date: February 03, 2021 06:58AM

tsstamper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You don't trade your play makers. Imagine this
> > team last season if we still had Landry!?
> >
> > You can't take 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
>
> I think the Landry trade was was much more about
> the team's circumstances than the idea of whether
> it was a good idea in and of itself to trade him
> for a 4th and 7th. CLE got the better end of the
> deal by a good measure for a guy who's really
> never hurt and pretty consistently is good for an
> average of about 90 catches & 1000 yards. He got
> traded and for so little because Gase was our
> coach and our culture was awful.
>
> Fast forward to 2021 and Flores has created and
> led a culture where FA's are specifying us as
> their preferred destination and even Watson lets
> it leak early on that he'd waive his no-trade for
> us as the only team mentioned. I'm not saying
> that acquiring Watson or trading Howard either one
> is a good idea. I'm more pointing out that our
> team's current circumstance puts us in a better
> position for any player
> acquisition/divestiture...we have more leverage
> vs. in the past where pretty much every other team
> had leverage over us that way.



No doubt it was Circumstance. Laundry himself said many times he didnt want to leave and "Lets get a deal done". My point was just as soon as you get a great player Stop looking at him as a number let it be a draft pick or a salary cap number. I know its 2021 and those things are important ......if any player is asking way more then they are worth BYE.
However Considering all the above , this is a place where players want to be again AND the Tax incentives You cant take an agents first inflated contract price to heart right away. Make a deal......

I just miss the days of having players like Zach Thomas, JT , Tony Nathan who played here, we got their Team Jerseys , they became part of our life . We Cheered them on. We didn't constantly try to trade them. The Miami Dolphins have had no face for so long. Once we got a player to start cheering for again in "Landry" we go out and buy 3 Jerseys and he's let go. It was sickening.

Tell you what .....I have no sympathy for Patriots fans. None. They had a hell of a ride these past two decades. But It must hurt like hell seeing Brady and Gronk in Tampa Orange going to the Superbowl.

Right now I have 3 Team Faves , Howard , AGBAH , and Van Ginkle , I really dig Jones too. I have none on Offense , no one consistently making great plays like Landry did. I hope that changes. Dont get rid of our play makers. Unless they force you to.

I hope TUA becomes a favorite , Lets get someone like Jake Long on the Oline....a Leader like OGBAH. A standout RB like Ricky Williams. a 1200 yd reciever.......

GO DOLPHINS!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2021 08:32AM by TreasurecoastPhinsfan.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: February 04, 2021 12:07PM

Reality is we will likely make an offer we are comfortable with for Watson and not overpay but someone else like niners will. If he goes elsewhere, we will take offers on #3 and trade down and add picks

Watch tape on Kedarious Toney. Jevonte Williams Richie Grant, Quinn Meinerz, Landon Dickerson, Hamsah Nasrildeen, Trevor Moehrig

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Date: February 04, 2021 05:36PM

jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reality is we will likely make an offer we are
> comfortable with for Watson and not overpay but
> someone else like niners will. If he goes
> elsewhere, we will take offers on #3 and trade
> down and add picks
>
> Watch tape on Kedarious Toney. Jevonte Williams
> Richie Grant, Quinn Meinerz, Landon Dickerson,
> Hamsah Nasrildeen, Trevor Moehrig

So many ways we can go. Stay at 3 and grab Sewall, or smith.. grab Fields if available, trade him, or TUA. Just trade down get picks. Trade it for Watson and some package.

We are in a unique situation because all of these scenarios are awesome. smileys with beer

The only thing that would piss me off is if we over pay for Watson . And I really don't see that happening. We are not desperate.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: jsm08 ()
Date: February 06, 2021 05:01AM

Smith/Chase
OT
RB
LB



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2021 05:06AM by jsm08.

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Re: Revised Draft offseason
Posted by: Ken ()
Date: February 06, 2021 09:14AM

3 - WR's Jaylen Waddle, Davonta Smith or Ja'Marr Chase
18 - RB's Najee Harris or Travis Etienne
36 - C Creed Humphrey, DE Carlos Basham or DT Tyler Shelvin
50 - WR Chris Olave, ILB Quay Walker or CB Israel Mukuamu
80 - QB Desmond Ritter, DE Payton Turner or LB Amari Gainer
113 - OL Daniel Faalele (Monster size), OL Cade Mays or S Andre Cisco
183 - BPA

Offense bolstered with Waddle, Harris, Humphrey, Olave, Ritter as a backup QB, Faalele or Mays. Leaving FA to add Robinson and to add a couple of pieces to the defense.

Faalele is intriguing because you never see guys of his size that have the athletic ability he has.

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