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          Ballage
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Re: Ballage
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 12, 2019 02:41AM

Mizzou15 stated: "Line cannot open holes."

That is a fact. No even the very best HOFer would do much behind our terrible run blocking offensive line. When I watch other teams that have running capability their offensive lines move very well, a coordinated set of moves with powerful effort. Our players don't do any of that very well. Strength and technique are their weaknesses.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: December 12, 2019 06:12AM

The rb that had problems with the law and we released was doing pretty well with this same OLINE..

Ballage is a bust.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 12, 2019 09:09AM

Opening holes for a RB is key to gaining 4+ yards a carry. Plays that are called look to fit that RB through a certain hole to do that. What is happening with our O-line, for the most part, is there are no holes being opened for the RB to hit. When there is no hole, a RB has two choices: 1) he follows the planned play at the location where the holes are supposed to be and is stopped for no gain or 2) he sees no hole, improvises and skirts left or right to find a hole or make a dash to the flat to turn up field. From what I've seen Ballage fails to improvise. Instead he runs to where the hole is supposed to be and is stopped for little to no gain. sad smiley

That is Ballage's apparent weakness. We must bolster offensive line play through training as well as securing more talented players.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: December 12, 2019 12:32PM

I agree colonel on your assessment of Ballege. Backs are different and require different plays. Backs like Ballage, OJ Anderson and even Zonk do not have wiggle or cuts they are power backs and need to room to accelerate and gain power. Ballege can be part of the solution if we get the line fixed. Some fans are ready to make him the next Tanne or Parker. He has a game.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: December 12, 2019 03:03PM

When there are no holes you make something happen like the rb that we released was doing. Ballage has no ability whatsoever.

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Re: Ballage
Date: December 12, 2019 06:57PM

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree colonel on your assessment of Ballege.
> Backs are different and require different plays.
> Backs like Ballage, OJ Anderson and even Zonk do
> not have wiggle or cuts they are power backs and
> need to room to accelerate and gain power. Ballege
> can be part of the solution if we get the line
> fixed. Some fans are ready to make him the next
> Tanne or Parker. He has a game.


Good points. Ballage would definitely excell elsewhere. Hes young.....we need to beef up the trenches. Whole team will excell.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 13, 2019 12:36AM

"Beef the Trenches, Beef the Trenches" a solid mantra that needs to be shouted out.

Building a sturdy foundation is the primer for anything that will stand the test of time. It also applies to creating a strong offensive and defensive line.

Our next NFL draft should be (must be) a blend of highly talented and motivated players. smileys with beer

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Re: Ballage
Date: December 13, 2019 01:26AM

Hell ya.smileys with beer

Go Miami!!

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: astro34 ()
Date: December 13, 2019 04:31AM

I agree with you Colonel.... beef up the trenches. I thought Saquan Barkley looked good last year, but this year his line sucks and he looks average. Same thing goes for many other backs... look at Dallas. QB's are the same way, Brady looks average this year cause his line sucks. Go back to Dallas... Prescott looks great one year and not so good the next... all because of the O-line.

Their are a few nice O-line free agents out there we should go after as well as using at least 2 (I hope 3) draft picks on the O-line.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: December 13, 2019 04:39AM

I agree with you colonel about beefing up the OLINE....But get another rb...Ballage wont be good here or anywhere else.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 15, 2019 05:54AM

Samsam, I don't believe our RB corps is set in stone and expect a good number of RB picks during the upcoming NFL draft. I would also like a few picks at FB. We need a bruiser that can elevate our blocking for a swift, crafty RB. We also need that same bruiser to get tough yardage for a 1st down or at the goal line. We've missed having a hard hitting, no nonsense FB for a long time. It's time for the Dolphins to effectively use one again in offensive plays.

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Re: Ballage
Date: December 15, 2019 06:20AM

I agree with everything you are saying Colonel....But realize although we have alot of picks we cant address every single position.We have to prioritize in the draft. After watching this season so far Our QBs may not be Top 5 like the Titans But Fitz is really playing at a high level and healthy . Also remember this is his first season with a new offense and coaches/players.

Unless we absolutely love a player QB is not really a Top priority IMO. And unless we absolutely have to have Andre Swift , RB is not really a Top priority IMO because of all the points you made above.

What IS a Top Priority is OL and the DLine. BUT with three 1st rounders there are also 2 ways to go.

Trade that first rounder for more picks (even another 1st rounder next season giving us three again) And Beef up those trenches. Create a foundation for the future to build upon.

Or grab a luxury pick because we can afford it with 3 first rounders at not a necessary position but a player who we think is worth it. I'm OK with that with we hit that Oline hard so that pick is not wasted. Again.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 15, 2019 07:51AM

Our focus must be toward building a great offensive and defensive line. Should by a miracle and a total surprise that a first flight QB is available, we can't let that opportunity get by us. Again, however, the situation has to be right. Fitzpatrick isn't our future, we know it and he probably knows it too. Rosen could be our franchise QB, however, I just don't see it. It is presumptuous to believe he is because there's no evidence that he possesses all the talent needed. I'd like to see him play against the Giants and Bengals. Let's see how things unfold.

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Re: Ballage
Date: December 15, 2019 07:56AM

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Our focus must be toward building a great
> offensive and defensive line. Should by a miracle
> and a total surprise that a first flight QB is
> available, we can't let that opportunity get by
> us. Again, however, the situation has to be right.
> Fitzpatrick isn't our future, we know it and he
> probably knows it too. Rosen could be our
> franchise QB, however, I just don't see it. It is
> presumptuous to believe he is because there's no
> evidence that he possesses all the talent needed.
> I'd like to see him play against the Giants and
> Bengals. Let's see how things unfold.


Nothing wrong with looking at our immediate future. Fitz could have 3-4 solid yrs. While seeing if Rosen is worth it the next season.

Again if Tua was the guy.....hes not anymore. Unless we are certain all I'm saying is WE HAVE OPTIONS. We can grab a luxury pick (Qcool smiley. But if we didn't it wouldn't be the end all if we waited to next year.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 16, 2019 09:48AM

Agree that "Whiskers" could play again next year and mentor Rosen and any other prospect we have eyes on that is on the roster. I have no problem with that whatsoever. Fitzpatrick is fun to watch. He is intelligent to boot; love his post game comments. He talks straight.

We definitely have to firm up the big men in the trenches--both sides. thumbs up I do want to see a power FB and a top notch CB picked as well.

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Re: Ballage
Date: December 16, 2019 10:28AM

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agree that "Whiskers" could play again next year
> and mentor Rosen and any other prospect we have
> eyes on that is on the roster. I have no problem
> with that whatsoever. Fitzpatrick is fun to watch.
> He is intelligent to boot; love his post game
> comments. He talks straight.
>
> We definitely have to firm up the big men in the
> trenches--both sides. thumbs up I do want to see a
> power FB and a top notch CB picked as well.


Thats not a bad plan at all. Hit the Oline and draft a Top FB /RB .
All that will just improve Fitz and Rosens play.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: December 16, 2019 12:54PM

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mizzou15 stated: "Line cannot open holes."
>
> That is a fact. No even the very best HOFer would
> do much behind our terrible run blocking offensive
> line. When I watch other teams that have running
> capability their offensive lines move very well, a
> coordinated set of moves with powerful effort. Our
> players don't do any of that very well. Strength
> and technique are their weaknesses.

*****************************************************

Colonel, what you said (above) is true, however, do you realize how many different lineups we have had in the OLine? Just about every week there is a new lineman starting, or a lineman or two switching positions, or injuries, etc. Flores and coaching staff continue to switch things around trying to find out who can or can't play. I understand their thoughts, but how in hell can these guys learn to play and understand each other's tendencies if the guy they were playing next to is moved or not playing the following week, then the same routine the following week? Impossible.

Just about every month the Fins are bringing in new people and cutting the guys who have been with the team for awhile. This just cannot continue.

When the season is over, I hope Flores, the coaches, and Grier sit down and figure out who they "think" can play in 2020, and stick with them. Continuity is so important in a team game.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 16, 2019 03:24PM

Cap, I am reminded of a Twilight zone or Hitchcock episode where the person keeps doing the same thing with a bad result and he or she keeps getting punished and he or she after the second punishment asks ,"Oh, Lord, How many times???" And the answer is "until we get it right."

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: December 17, 2019 03:45AM

Captkoi, the Dolphins "experiment" with players repositioning week after week has partially been due to wanting to see the best player at a position plus putting a body in place because the previous body was injured. The secondary is filled with "who in the hell is that" players. They are cast-offs from other teams now sporting a Dolphins uniform. Agree that continuity is key to building a solid team, which can bloom into a good team and hopefully a great team in time. The key is finding the talent and keeping them healthy.

"Excuse me, how do you get to Carnegie Hall?" "Practice, practice, practice." With Flores at the helm, that could very well be on his coaching agenda. The key is finding the talented. Then, practice, practice, practice with continuity to build that well-oiled machine. thumbs up

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: December 18, 2019 12:44AM

I echo Colonel's "Agree that "Whiskers" could play again next year and mentor Rosen and any other prospect we have eyes on that is on the roster." sentiment.

Regarding drafting a top-notch CB, I think I slightly favor getting a young, proven really good FA there if there's the right fit for our D. As I've mentioned before, I think the Pats have used (especially more recently) great secondary play as the key to their defense. They have put resources toward elite high-end CBs, moderately-priced but smart Safeties and then have built quality depth. I think it's the tight man coverage (which they play more than most teams) that allows their front seven to perhaps not be the absolute best athletes but to be effective in the scheme. With Dallas still needing to sign Dak & Cooper, I'd be looking at Byron Jones who has (a) performed really well at CB the past couple years and (b) capably shown some position flexibility early in his time in the league. If we can field a secondary with Xavien and Byron locking onto the top receivers, Rowe doing what he's done on TEs, McCain playing ball-hawk and Needham being the 5th guy back there or the beginning of depth, I think that play in & play out, our front 7 are made a bit better by better pass defense.

As a corollary, I'd want to pick up a big, modestly-priced NT-type FA to augment our DL rotation, plugging up the middle and hopefully lifting our run defense that way.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: December 18, 2019 03:52AM

I agree that we are experimenting w/ players to see who fits. Some of the dbs do look promising. The offensive line however stinks. There is no other unit on a team where strength thru cohesion is as important as the oline. One weak link the entire unit collapses. Davenport and Kilgore are weak by nfl standards. We should replace 3 positions at least. Davis imo is a solid 6th man in the rotation.

I keep saying we should bring in 3 olinemen w/ our first 5 picks and bring in the best G we can in free agency.

Most mock drafts have CJ Edwards being available at #22. I think he would pair well with Howard. Jones would pair well w/ Howard too.

Good article on Pro football talk regarding Rosen. Yes it appears that he is not showing enough in practice to get on the field. Not good news.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: December 18, 2019 04:42AM

Completely agree re: OL. I don't know enough about the college prospects to know which ones might be targets for any of our 1st/2nd round picks, but, along with CB, I would also spend on a really good OL player in FA. I don't think we need to build the entire line out of high draft picks, but feel like ours is so bad that having one position literally plug & play at a high level would serve to stabilize and hopefully enable younger guys with talent but less experience to come together better. Thinking someone like Scherff @ Guard or Conklin @ Tackle. Then perhaps a modestly priced FA, as well.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: December 18, 2019 08:52AM

"Most mock drafts have CJ Edwards being available at #22. I think he would pair well with Howard. Jones would pair well w/ Howard too. "

Correction that should be CJ Henderson (UF) at #22.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: astro34 ()
Date: December 18, 2019 10:10AM

I agree with fixing the O-line. We need to use a few draft picks on that area.

Maybe we can get Joe Thuney (G - New England) or Brandon Scherf (G - Washington)and Jamie Collins (LB - New England) and Byron Jones (CB - Dallas) in free agency. The two New England players it's obvious our coaches have relationships with them, Washington is an awful situation and Dallas is spending to much money on QB,RB, and WR to pay him.

Lets spend that money wisely.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: December 18, 2019 11:30PM

Agreed re: spending wisely. In my mind, I'd want to avoid in FA:
- divas/troubled players
- old players, unless contract is very modest
- injured players
- players whose performance is more a reflection of the team around them than them individually

In general, I would want to avoid paying top-dollar for OL, but I feel like our situation is so dire there that we really need one blue-chip guy and probably a modestly-paid 2nd guy. I like Scherff in part because his relatively high performance has come on a bad team. I'm always a little wary of FAs from NE or PIT, where they seem to get the most out of players and what you're able to get is less. But, you have a good point re: our coaches knowing them, so it might be mitigated that way.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: December 21, 2019 09:14AM

tsstamper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed re: spending wisely. In my mind, I'd want
> to avoid in FA:
> - divas/troubled players
> - old players, unless contract is very modest
> - injured players
> - players whose performance is more a reflection
> of the team around them than them individually
>
> In general, I would want to avoid paying
> top-dollar for OL, but I feel like our situation
> is so dire there that we really need one blue-chip
> guy and probably a modestly-paid 2nd guy. I like
> Scherff in part because his relatively high
> performance has come on a bad team. I'm always a
> little wary of FAs from NE or PIT, where they seem
> to get the most out of players and what you're
> able to get is less. But, you have a good point
> re: our coaches knowing them, so it might be
> mitigated that way.

I agree w/ you 99.9%. Only thing if we have to pay top dollar for 2 f/a Olinemen I would pay it. Gotta fix the line and we have the money. Saying that I would roll out the coffers for Scherrf and offer Hill from MIN a nice raise. Hill is a guy that has stepped in and looked good when called upon to start at either LT or RT for the Vikes. Appears ready to step up as a starter. Right now the Vikes have Riley at LT and another high draft pick at RT.

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Re: Ballage
Date: December 21, 2019 09:42AM

We need a quality healthy bull Center. It all starts at center .

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: December 22, 2019 01:36AM

I think Hill - and I don't know a thing about him specifically - is representative of the kind of modestly-paid 2nd guy I had in mind. Shouldn't break the bank to acquire a guy who couldn't secure a starting role, but do I believe there are a number of teams whose 3rd OT is far better than what we have and capable of being a part of a solid, rebuilt line? Yeah, definitely.

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Re: Ballage
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: December 22, 2019 04:10AM

Yeah I think Hill would be our man. I remember about 2 years ago I wached a Viking game where he started at T and the commentators mentioned he was doing a good job as a fill in. He had a good game. After that I kinda followed him in the press and he always got good print.

Free agents I would like to see us go after

G Brandon Scherff WASH
T Rashod Hill MIN
DL Shelton PATS
LB Jenkins NYJ
S Thompson DAL
C Trey Hopkins CIN
S HaHa Clinton-Dix CHI

We get 3 guys from this list Im happy.

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