He has three first round picks in 2020 and 2 in 2021. He has five picks in the first two rounds of 2020. If he can't rebuild the roster with that sort of draft capital, he should be fired and never allowed to work for an NFL franchise ever again. That would be tantamount to out Tannenbauming Mike Tannenbaum. No explanations, no mitigating circumstances, no extenuation, no palliation, no woulda coulda, no unforeseen circumstances---- No excuses, Grier. None. Nada. The fans will be subjected to 0-16 so that you can have all of these picks. I doubt any of them want to hear anything from you if you don't rebuild this team into a SB contender. I know I sure don't.

Agree 100%

Absolutely agree- there better be a LOT of the sweet smell of success after this agony.

Rick

Miami had better be pouring loads of money into the best scouted draft class ever. I'll give them that it is probably impossible to hit 100% perfection but they must be amazing

Reflecting on Grier's drafts and Sashi Brown's experience in Cleveland. What are the chances Grier gets "Brown'd" and does the teardown work while someone else gets to do the rebuild, like Dorsey in CLE?

I think chances are slim in 2020, since Grier seems to have been part of either convincing or strongly agreeing with Ross about the necessity of a complete rebuild...and he hasn't had the opportunity to pick a QB early (Sashi did and passed on it the opp in favor of acquiring more picks).

I think Grier is safe for the next 2 years. (unless something really bad or stupid happens)

Grier should hire his dad.

Except that all we can expect, maximum, is 2.5 sucesses out of those 5 2020 picks.

Even if we got HOF players it wouldn't be enough to make us winners next year and Grier would be doing very well just to get that 50% sucess rate.

I agree in general with the idea of expectation of about 50%, even of 1st & 2nd rounders.

That said, I'd say we're trying to achieve a paradigm shift wherein having the right culture and a QB covers all manner of sins. I don't think Belicheck is actually that much better at hitting on draft picks, he just has a strong, long-standing culture and Brady (and refs...but I digress). The prizm through which Michael Thomas or Julio Jones are viewed as elite is entirely based upon having Brees & Ryan throwing them the ball...and, especially (IMO) in the case of the Saints, a culture where everyone buys in and understands their role in holistic success. I don't think either one of those guys are viewed even remotely the same if they played their entire careers w/Miami rather than NO or ATL.

Those same 2.5 out of 5 successful picks look dramatically differently depending upon whether the 2015 Phins are taking them or the 2015 Patriots are taking them. Every pick we have is valuable, but the most important things relative to their specific value to us are whether we get the right QB and the right culture set.

tsstamper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree in general with the idea of expectation of
> about 50%, even of 1st & 2nd rounders.
>
> That said, I'd say we're trying to achieve a
> paradigm shift wherein having the right culture
> and a QB covers all manner of sins. I don't think
> Belicheck is actually that much better at hitting
> on draft picks, he just has a strong,
> long-standing culture and Brady (and refs...but I
> digress). The prizm through which Michael Thomas
> or Julio Jones are viewed as elite is entirely
> based upon having Brees & Ryan throwing them the
> ball...and, especially (IMO) in the case of the
> Saints, a culture where everyone buys in and
> understands their role in holistic success. I
> don't think either one of those guys are viewed
> even remotely the same if they played their entire
> careers w/Miami rather than NO or ATL.
>
> Those same 2.5 out of 5 successful picks look
> dramatically differently depending upon whether
> the 2015 Phins are taking them or the 2015
> Patriots are taking them. Every pick we have is
> valuable, but the most important things relative
> to their specific value to us are whether we get
> the right QB and the right culture set.

Agreed but I'd say that the same principle can be applied to the current QB situation. If Rosen was playing behind Dallas' offensive line and throwing to their receivers, would he be as successful as Dak Prescott? I'm having difficulty with the idea that Grier & Ross most assuredly planned on taking a QB in the 2020 draft (presumably Tua) and yet gave up a 2nd and a 5th for Rosin. Don't get me wrong, I liked the trade at the time, but was assuming that they'd give him a credible opportunity to show what he has and whether he can be a franchise QB. Given the offensive line and lack of playmakers around him, I don't think we'll have a decent assessment of what he brings to the table. I'm reminded of Steve Young when he was with Tampa Bay. He looked horrible. Then he goes to San Francisco, and the rest is history. I know the obvious response is that they'll let Tua and Rosin battle it out next year but honestly, if you use the first overall selection in the draft to take a QB, how likely is it that you aren't going to play him? That would be tantamount to Grier saying, "yep, I wasted the first overall pick."

Fins72 Wrote:

>
> Agreed but I'd say that the same principle can be
> applied to the current QB situation. If Rosen was
> playing behind Dallas' offensive line and throwing
> to their receivers, would he be as successful as
> Dak Prescott? I'm having difficulty with the idea
> that Grier & Ross most assuredly planned on taking
> a QB in the 2020 draft (presumably Tua) and yet
> gave up a 2nd and a 5th for Rosin. Don't get me
> wrong, I liked the trade at the time, but was
> assuming that they'd give him a credible
> opportunity to show what he has and whether he can
> be a franchise QB. Given the offensive line and
> lack of playmakers around him, I don't think we'll
> have a decent assessment of what he brings to the
> table. I'm reminded of Steve Young when he was
> with Tampa Bay. He looked horrible. Then he goes
> to San Francisco, and the rest is history. I know
> the obvious response is that they'll let Tua and
> Rosin battle it out next year but honestly, if you
> use the first overall selection in the draft to
> take a QB, how likely is it that you aren't going
> to play him? That would be tantamount to Grier
> saying, "yep, I wasted the first overall pick."

You do whatever you have to do to improve the position thus improving the team. Dallas drafted Aikman in 89(??) and then later that summer spent the their #1 draft pick for 90 in the supplemental draft for Steve Walsh. Collect commodities keep the one that suits you best then trade the other. Makes sense.

If Rosen looks like a quality starter we still draft Tua as a commodity or trade the pick. If we trade down I still say we bring in a qb later in the 1st or 2nd round to raise the value of the position.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fins72 Wrote:
>
> >
> > Agreed but I'd say that the same principle can
> be
> > applied to the current QB situation. If Rosen
> was
> > playing behind Dallas' offensive line and
> throwing
> > to their receivers, would he be as successful
> as
> > Dak Prescott? I'm having difficulty with the
> idea
> > that Grier & Ross most assuredly planned on
> taking
> > a QB in the 2020 draft (presumably Tua) and yet
> > gave up a 2nd and a 5th for Rosin. Don't get me
> > wrong, I liked the trade at the time, but was
> > assuming that they'd give him a credible
> > opportunity to show what he has and whether he
> can
> > be a franchise QB. Given the offensive line and
> > lack of playmakers around him, I don't think
> we'll
> > have a decent assessment of what he brings to
> the
> > table. I'm reminded of Steve Young when he was
> > with Tampa Bay. He looked horrible. Then he
> goes
> > to San Francisco, and the rest is history. I
> know
> > the obvious response is that they'll let Tua
> and
> > Rosin battle it out next year but honestly, if
> you
> > use the first overall selection in the draft to
> > take a QB, how likely is it that you aren't
> going
> > to play him? That would be tantamount to Grier
> > saying, "yep, I wasted the first overall pick."
>
> You do whatever you have to do to improve the
> position thus improving the team. Dallas drafted
> Aikman in 89(??) and then later that summer spent
> the their #1 draft pick for 90 in the supplemental
> draft for Steve Walsh. Collect commodities keep
> the one that suits you best then trade the other.
> Makes sense.
>
> If Rosen looks like a quality starter we still
> draft Tua as a commodity or trade the pick. If we
> trade down I still say we bring in a qb later in
> the 1st or 2nd round to raise the value of the
> position.

I don't disagree in theory but I think the decision has already been made to take Tua and start him when he's ready. Given what he has to work with, Rosen isn't going to light it up. I doubt we'll get a second and a fifth for him. Then again, who knows. Not saying I liked the trade, but I think Houston was crazy to give 2 first round picks and a second for Tunsil. I guess something is always worth what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Don't forget that Grier brought in Marvin Allen who helped shape the current Chiefs roster as his assistant GM and Reggie McKenzie. He was the personnel man of the year in 2016 and is our director of scouting now.

Grier is an easy target these days but I will give him credit for surrounding himself with experience in his first GM gig.

Rosen has the rest of the season to let us know whether or not we need QB desperately enough to use our first rounder , assuming it is in the top 15 otherwise Tua will be gone.

I think he will demonstrate that we need to go elsewhere first and that elsewhere will be either to keep Josh standing and not knocked to the ground or in the alternative, to draft a defensive line that will not allow the opposing QB to have enough time to make a chess move before he throws the ball downfield, like most of our opposing QBs have had up to this point this year.

I still worry that Tua will say nope to playing with us.

Or go back for his senior year.

pafinfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still worry that Tua will say nope to playing
> with us.
>
> Or go back for his senior year.


We have many pics next year....I say draft 3 or 4 players from alabama and that will get tua into the spirit of playing for us...My 1 cent.

But its very hard to play for a team whose recent players havent been successfull for a while.

I think its all about coaching. We dont havent had the right coaches or the right plays and system implemented on this phins team for a while.

pafinfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still worry that Tua will say nope to playing
> with us.
>
> Or go back for his senior year.


That's always a possibility but there is a definite allure to being the #1 overall pick in the draft. If Tua goes back for his senior season, there's no guarantee that he will be the #1 pick in 2021. There always the potential for an injury, an underwhelming season, and he'll be competing with Trevor Lawrence for that spot. Matt Leinert learned this the hard way.

I'm just not comfortable locking on one player. If Miami does get the 1st pick and another team gave a really good offer for that first pick I would probably not protest it.

pafinfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm just not comfortable locking on one player.
> If Miami does get the 1st pick and another team
> gave a really good offer for that first pick I
> would probably not protest it.


I guess it depends on who the player is. If it's someone like Peyton Manning, you take the player. If it's someone like Jared Goff, I'd listen to the offers. Based upon what I've read (and I know that may be far from reality) the front office has become fixated on Tua. They think he's a once in a generational player. Honestly, I don't follow college football all that much (and Alabama football even less) so I don't know much about Tua. His numbers are eye popping but that rarely tells the full story. I honestly think this organization is prepared to go 0-16 to get Tua. In the absence of Tua resisting being drafted by Miami, I'd say it's almost a lock that he'll be the Dolphins starting QB next year. I think Ross et. al. are so fixated on getting a franchise QB, if Tua doesn't pan out, the following year look for Tank Job 2.0 to get Lawrence. Lose For Lawrence?

Fins72 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> pafinfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm just not comfortable locking on one player.
>
> > If Miami does get the 1st pick and another team
> > gave a really good offer for that first pick I
> > would probably not protest it.
>
>
> I guess it depends on who the player is. If it's
> someone like Peyton Manning, you take the player.
> If it's someone like Jared Goff, I'd listen to the
> offers.


Lol. You think it's that easy!!!!?
When Peyton Manning was in the draft no one could decide between Manning and Ryan Leaf. It's easy to say Manning today.

Look at all of the QBs taken before Marino. On top of all that..... you need to put that QB in a place to succeed.

Eli Manning refused to go to the Chargers. Held out for the Giants.
He wanted to be successful. He has 2 rings to prove it.

Many many moving parts to a championship team. First step....extra draft picks. Check. Let's see we we go from here.But just picking TUA or any QB is far from a garantee of anything . Ask the Colts how sucking for Luck worked out.

I like what I see in Rosen so far. I wouldnt be against getting him more help for next season .we still hold 2 1st rounders in 2021 as well.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

You like rosen?

YEP

You used to like tannehill as well.

Your ability to identify qb talent is SHUT.

I don't know any Colts fans personally and I don't know if the team truly "sucked for Luck" in 2012. In googling it, a couple of the vets on the team vehemently denied it with "we're professionals" and "we don't even know if Luck is what everybody says he is". Similar to us, they just didn't have the overall talent to win enough not to get the 1st pick. Dissimilar to us, they had an all-time great covering up their lack of talent for years...underscoring how important it is to have a great QB.

Luck arrives, and they go 11-5 three straight times, making the playoffs each time and losing in the AFC championship game in 2014. Then, a tough stretch of seasons where his health kept him fro performing, and the team, consequently, didn't do as well. 2018, relatively healthy, and it's back to 10-6 and 1-1 in the playoffs.

If a Colts fan is really honest with themselves, they probably don't lament sucking so badly in 2011 and landing Luck...they probably lament that the team didn't do enough to keep him from taking so many hits that couldn't have been helpful in his efforts to remain healthy and available. (and, yes, I concede that his major shoulder sprain was non-football injury...but there were multiple injury cycles that led to his retirement).

It may be because of the 20+ yrs of wandering in the wilderness with this team, but I would definitely be ok with making the playoffs pretty much every year our QB is healthy with progression toward SB. I would hope that we would learn from the Colts' experience and provide better protection, but even if we had the exact same track record of 4 playoff appearances in 7 seasons with a 3-3 playoff record and truly a contender for a playoff run and even a SB every season our QB is healthy, I would be happy. Not as happy as if we were to win a SB or more than one, but happy.

I hear you. We need an Oline. Most of the reason Dan Marino took off like he did was he was drafted to a Superbowl team.
When does that ever happen? A Superbowl team picking a QB in the first round!?

Your points on Luck are well taken. He was a great prospect. But the team didnt put him in a place to succeed.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Wait until Tua plays some real competition. His game declines when his WRs aren't open by 10 yards.

If they don't win it all this year he may just stick around another year.

That's paying dividends for Herbert right now.

Any football player from pop warner to pro does not train and practice as hard as he does to suck. Over 99% of football fans have never played the game so they don't know what the hell they are talking about when it comes to football. They train and practice expecting to win the next game. They are not responsible for bringing in the players around them all they know is that guy is here and he is my teammate. Tanking is word made up by the media and now idiots are spewing it out giving it credibility. Phins said they were going to rebuild and that is what they are doing. Got rid of players who produced mediocrity. Now they are in a hard spot for this season. Coaches and players have to fight through it. Practice, train and prepare to win. They might win 1 or 2 games this season but those wins will be big ones in that locker room. Fans will bi*** but those guys will know that their hard work has payed off.

I see nowhere where the front office has a hard on for Tua. Are they interested? I hope so they damn well should be. Do they have options yes and they will consider all of them.

I played a draft game for 2020 and this is who I drafted for Miami This is presuming Rosen is what is can be.

round 1 pick 1 - Jerry Jeudy, WR, Alabama
round 1 pick 11 - Chase Young, Edge, Ohio State
round 1 pick 19 - Kristian Fulton, CB, LSU
round 2 pick 1 - Tyler Biadasz, C, Wisconsin
round 2 pick 12 - Ben Bredeson, G, Michigan
round 3 pick 1 - D'Andre Swift, RB, Georgia
round 3 pick 41 - Jordan Love, QB, Utah State

I would imagine if we drafted these 7 players our team would be well on its way to success. (BTW Jeudy, Fulton, Biadasz and Bredeson are all ranked right now as the # 1 player at that position in the mock draft, and Young is #2 at his position)

So keeping with the topic if Grier drafts something like this draft we should be headed in the right direction.

astro34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I played a draft game for 2020 and this is who I
> drafted for Miami This is presuming Rosen is what
> is can be.
>
> round 1 pick 1 - Jerry Jeudy, WR, Alabama
> round 1 pick 11 - Chase Young, Edge, Ohio State
> round 1 pick 19 - Kristian Fulton, CB, LSU
> round 2 pick 1 - Tyler Biadasz, C, Wisconsin
> round 2 pick 12 - Ben Bredeson, G, Michigan
> round 3 pick 1 - D'Andre Swift, RB, Georgia
> round 3 pick 41 - Jordan Love, QB, Utah State
>
> I would imagine if we drafted these 7 players our
> team would be well on its way to success. (BTW
> Jeudy, Fulton, Biadasz and Bredeson are all ranked
> right now as the # 1 player at that position in
> the mock draft, and Young is #2 at his position)
>
> So keeping with the topic if Grier drafts
> something like this draft we should be headed in
> the right direction.


You dont think your a bit offensive heavy? Our defense has given up 140 points in 3 games !?



GO DOLPHINS!!!!

TC, Yes it is a bit offensive, but I could not fix all the holes with those 7 picks. The rest of that draft I picked up a LB, S, Edge, OT and WR. I assume some holes will be fixed in free agency.

Although if we fixed the offense it will help the defense because we could hold the ball longer and put up some points allowing the defense to rest. We should have been up 20 to 10 on Dallas at the half, so its not all bad. We did play three of the best teams in football. It got out of hand in the second half when injuries hurt the O-line, and our inability to sustain a drive.

BTW- just throwing this out there. Did anyone else besides me get worried when Rosen's head hit the ground and they checked him out for a concussion. He had 2 his last year in college. Hope this is not a reoccurring issue.

astro34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TC, Yes it is a bit offensive, but I could not fix
> all the holes with those 7 picks. The rest of
> that draft I picked up a LB, S, Edge, OT and WR.
> I assume some holes will be fixed in free agency.
>
> Although if we fixed the offense it will help the
> defense because we could hold the ball longer and
> put up some points allowing the defense to rest.
> We should have been up 20 to 10 on Dallas at the
> half, so its not all bad. We did play three of
> the best teams in football. It got out of hand in
> the second half when injuries hurt the O-line, and
> our inability to sustain a drive.
>
> BTW- just throwing this out there. Did anyone
> else besides me get worried when Rosen's head hit
> the ground and they checked him out for a
> concussion. He had 2 his last year in college.
> Hope this is not a reoccurring issue.

I get worried for any of our QB's that are "protected" by Miami's O-line.