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          Nothing Will Change Until
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: November 06, 2017 03:48AM

Ross finally addresses the elephant in the owner's suite. Yes, looking rather portly last night was the real reason nothing will change Miami's fortunes until Ross completely redoes the way this team handles the evaluation process of players. Tannenbaum is a loser now, he was a loser in NY, he'll be a loser for however long anyone is stupid enough to leave him in charge. Ajayi was frustrated? Every player on that team ought to be frustrated. Looking at the offense last night, an objective GM would say that with the possible exception of one or two players, we are playing with a starting cast of backups (and I'm being kind). Jessie Davis, Bushrod, James each need to be replaced. Pouncey needs to be replaced because he's one love tap away from being on IR. Neither Williams or Drake should be starting at RB. Cutler obviously isn't the answer. Tight end is a joke and has been on this roster for as long as I can remember. Davonte Parker looked like he was hobbled again after one play and his future in the NFL is questionable at best.

On defense, no pressure on Carr all night long with the exception of Suh's strip of the ball. I love Cam Wake but he's close to being done. Harris would be a decent pick if he was a 3rd or 4th rounder, not the first rounder that the team spent.

With the possible exception of Tampa Bay and maybe Denver, I don't see any more wins this year. That would put this team at 6-10. With Tannenbaum in charge, that record will continue to decline year by year. Since Ross evaluates his employees based upon their level of friendship, this unholy cycle will continue until the continuous losing seasons force him to make a change if for no other reason than cosmetics. Joe Robbie must be turning over in his grave.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: toko34 ()
Date: November 06, 2017 05:29AM

I'm just as down on this franchise as you Fins72-
but I'm going to defend it a little.

The injury bug has bit this team really hard this season, with our starting QB going down- the season went down the tubes right then and there.

I actually like Drake/Williams a lot, i saw a big improvement over Ajayi. Ajayi had no hands, and hated to block...the Drake/Williams combo looked like they had their hearts in the game at least and Drake especially has a good burst and decent moves. The offensive line here is horrendous though..so you have to keep that in mind when evaluating these two.

I've discussed it already, but I feel we could do a lot more with this team with better assistant coaches. I'm seeing way too many mental errors and penalties, simple stuff that could be corrected with the right coaching!

Our GM-Grier. I want to hate him, to blame him--but I think he's actually pretty good at selecting players. The problem goes back to the previous paragraph. Doesn't matter how good these players are if they are not receiving the proper basic instructions on the fundamentals of NFL football. If you turn back the clock to the Don Shula days, the one key thing that I believe made Shula such a prolific winner year to year was the Discipline those players had. The Dolphins used to be routinely the less penalized team in the NFL (when they were good) Now I hear the whistle on almost every play. Penalties can not only demoralize a team but it can sabotage the watchability and enjoyment for the casual /average fan.


Steps to correcting this team:

1. Stick with Gase until he grows and learns a bit more.
2. Hopefully, Gase recognizes the need for better assistants. (if he doesn't, can him.)
3. We are going to need a linebacker or two that can cover and smash Tightends. Last night showed me that Kiko Alonso can't do it.
4. I'm concerned about Safety/ Deep Defensive play too. I don't know if its the players or the coaching.
5. The Dolphins need to do something about the field condition in Hard Rock Stadium-- I think it might be a contributing factor to all the injuries the lineman are experiencing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/06/2017 05:31AM by toko34.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: November 06, 2017 06:58AM

toko34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm just as down on this franchise as you Fins72-
> but I'm going to defend it a little.
>
> The injury bug has bit this team really hard this
> season, with our starting QB going down- the
> season went down the tubes right then and there.
>
> I actually like Drake/Williams a lot, i saw a big
> improvement over Ajayi. Ajayi had no hands, and
> hated to block...the Drake/Williams combo looked
> like they had their hearts in the game at least
> and Drake especially has a good burst and decent
> moves. The offensive line here is horrendous
> though..so you have to keep that in mind when
> evaluating these two.
>
> I've discussed it already, but I feel we could do
> a lot more with this team with better assistant
> coaches. I'm seeing way too many mental errors and
> penalties, simple stuff that could be corrected
> with the right coaching!
>
> Our GM-Grier. I want to hate him, to blame
> him--but I think he's actually pretty good at
> selecting players. The problem goes back to the
> previous paragraph. Doesn't matter how good these
> players are if they are not receiving the proper
> basic instructions on the fundamentals of NFL
> football. If you turn back the clock to the Don
> Shula days, the one key thing that I believe made
> Shula such a prolific winner year to year was the
> Discipline those players had. The Dolphins used
> to be routinely the less penalized team in the NFL
> (when they were good) Now I hear the whistle on
> almost every play. Penalties can not only
> demoralize a team but it can sabotage the
> watchability and enjoyment for the casual /average
> fan.
>
>
> Steps to correcting this team:
>
> 1. Stick with Gase until he grows and learns a bit
> more.
> 2. Hopefully, Gase recognizes the need for better
> assistants. (if he doesn't, can him.)
> 3. We are going to need a linebacker or two that
> can cover and smash Tightends. Last night showed
> me that Kiko Alonso can't do it.
> 4. I'm concerned about Safety/ Deep Defensive play
> too. I don't know if its the players or the
> coaching.
> 5. The Dolphins need to do something about the
> field condition in Hard Rock Stadium-- I think it
> might be a contributing factor to all the injuries
> the lineman are experiencing.

I don't disagree with some of your points. My biggest problem coming into this year was the lack of attention to O line. Tunsil was a question mark. He played well enough at guard last year. No way to know how he'd fare as a left tackle but okay, he had the pedigree to be a tackle from his college days. Larsen and or Davis and or Steen--- no way possible was this adequate. There were two tackles in free agency that would have been light years better than anything we have on the roster. We did nothing to pursue either. Pouncey is playing on borrowed time. We should have drafted a player with the potential to replace him and didn't. That why I wanted Forrest Lamp who could've immediately played guard and had talent to take over at center when Pouncey inevitably got hurt. Bushrod is TERRIBLE. He had to be talked out of retirement. He should've retired. James has not played up to his status of 1st round pick but I'll admit he's head and shoulders better than the stiff they put in when he got hurt. This team was set up to fail this year because it goes way beyond just the run game. You need pass protection to be able go deep. A lot of the dink and dunk crap we're seeing is a by product of Gase knowing that there isn't time to throw deep. Plus, the more 3 and outs, the more the defense gets gassed. This is nowhere near a talented enough defense to keep them out there as long as they've been out there this year. If a casual fan can see how horrendous the line was going to be, why on earth did the so-called professionals running this team not see it? People complain about Gase's play-calling but I have no idea if he stinks at it or he's limited by the line's inability to block. I don't care what our record is this year if we could just get rid of Tannenbaum and get a competent guy running things. With Ross, though, that's too much to ask for.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: thegreathoo ()
Date: November 09, 2017 02:12PM

Fire Gase. I don't think he has a clear vision, clear setup.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Ken ()
Date: November 11, 2017 08:17PM

Don't fire Gase...doing so will only make us a bad team for 2018 and for two to three years after that, maybe longer.

Teams that always fire and hire coaches are ALWAYS bad teams.

Building a successful cohesive system and roster takes time.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: November 12, 2017 03:15AM

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Don't fire Gase...doing so will only make us a bad
> team for 2018 and for two to three years after
> that, maybe longer.
>
> Teams that always fire and hire coaches are ALWAYS
> bad teams.
>
> Building a successful cohesive system and roster
> takes time.

How about firing whoever was responsible for assembling the worst offensive line in football? The season was lost before it even started.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Date: November 12, 2017 05:33AM

Dont fire Gase.......But Fire GM Tannebaum absolutely. AND if the New GM wants a different head coach.....OH WELL.

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: November 13, 2017 04:20AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dont fire Gase.......But Fire GM Tannebaum
> absolutely. AND if the New GM wants a different
> head coach.....OH WELL.

This makes way too much sense for Ross to do. If winning was the most important thing for Ross, he wouldn't have hired a proven loser in Tannenbaum in the first place. Too bad he couldn't find someone competent to be his friend. My question is how much losing will it take for Tannenbaum to be fired?

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: November 13, 2017 05:38AM

This is Gase's second year, his first year he took the team to the play offs after losing Tannehill in week 14. His second year he has had a 2nd and 3rd string QB the entire year... Despite that his record is 14-10 since taking over here in Miami... Getting rid of Gase would be extremely foolish at this point... Dan Cambell was 5-7 during his tenure.. Joe Philbin was 24-28 during his tenure. Todd Bowles 2-1. Tony Sparano 29-32.. Cam Cameron 1-15. Nick Saban 15-17..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: November 13, 2017 08:02AM

Nothing will change until we get that right qb.

You are blaming gase for something that isnt his fault.

We lost the main piece on a football team, thats like losing your queen on a chess board....

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: November 13, 2017 06:31PM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing will change until we get that right qb.
>
> You are blaming gase for something that isnt his
> fault.
>
> We lost the main piece on a football team, thats
> like losing your queen on a chess board....


Sorry, but there's a boat load of things to blame Gase for. His play-calling stinks. His choice of assistant coaches stinks. His trading the only decent running back on the roster for a 4th round pick stinks. Cutler was his idea. Julius Thomas was his idea. Tannenbaum is the root of the problem but Gase doesn't get a pass. No how no way.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: November 13, 2017 06:36PM


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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: November 13, 2017 06:38PM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ACTUALLY NOTHING WILL CHANGE UNLESS ROSS SELLS THE
> TEAM.
>
> Then we will have an owner who will hire his
> immediate subordinates on the basis of competence
> who will in turn draft players and hire coaches
> and assistants based on competence who will in
> turn play players based on competence.


Amen to that.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: KB ()
Date: November 14, 2017 03:14AM

My question is: Is Gase, like Ross, going to put up with the continued incompetence of his subordinates to do their job??? This isn't the 1950's a head coach can't do all the preparing and motivating. Some one said the worst part of hiring a rookie head coach is his inability to attract good assistants. Well, he's not a rookie anymore. Can you imagine Bellicheat putting up with a OLine or a group of Linebackers performing the way ours do and NOTHING being done?

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Hooligan2 ()
Date: November 14, 2017 04:15AM

Gase is a second year rookie.
His big mistake is failing to realize that he's dealing with a locker room full of egomaniacs not much younger than he is. When you get into a pi$$ing contest with 53 guys, you're going to get wet.
Getting rid of Ajayi had more to do with asserting himself than a good football move.
Gase gets a pass from Ross because of the Tannehill injury but, Ajayi was a big reason why the team made the play-offs last season and if he doesn't get adequately replaced next season will be a dud also.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: November 14, 2017 04:18AM

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My question is: Is Gase, like Ross, going to put
> up with the continued incompetence of his
> subordinates to do their job??? This isn't the
> 1950's a head coach can't do all the preparing and
> motivating. Some one said the worst part of
> hiring a rookie head coach is his inability to
> attract good assistants. Well, he's not a rookie
> anymore. Can you imagine Bellicheat putting up
> with a OLine or a group of Linebackers performing
> the way ours do and NOTHING being done?

What has Gase done in his entire brief career that made anyone think that he would be a difference making head coach. Never had been a head coach before. The whole Denver offense argument was BS because those gaudy numbers were the product of Manning running the offense. This train wreck will get worse and worse because we have a neophyte head coach with bad assistants being supplied players by a front office led by a guy who is famous for being terrible with personnel decisions. The only two questions are 1. How long will Ross stand idly by and let the losses continue 2. When he inevitably, finally does something, will he do what's necessary by cleaning house and hiring a new GM with the power to build the team the right way.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Date: November 14, 2017 05:24AM

Ross goes away. He's too much of a pampered Ivy League socialite.

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: November 14, 2017 05:35AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ross goes away. He's too much of a pampered Ivy
> League socialite.

Damn if it were only that easy. Treasure, do you have any pictures of him with a goat handy perchance?

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: November 14, 2017 09:37AM

Fins72 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > My question is: Is Gase, like Ross, going to
> put
> > up with the continued incompetence of his
> > subordinates to do their job??? This isn't the
> > 1950's a head coach can't do all the preparing
> and
> > motivating. Some one said the worst part of
> > hiring a rookie head coach is his inability to
> > attract good assistants. Well, he's not a
> rookie
> > anymore. Can you imagine Bellicheat putting up
> > with a OLine or a group of Linebackers
> performing
> > the way ours do and NOTHING being done?
>
> What has Gase done in his entire brief career that
> made anyone think that he would be a difference
> making head coach. Never had been a head coach
> before. The whole Denver offense argument was BS
> because those gaudy numbers were the product of
> Manning running the offense. This train wreck will
> get worse and worse because we have a neophyte
> head coach with bad assistants being supplied
> players by a front office led by a guy who is
> famous for being terrible with personnel
> decisions. The only two questions are 1. How long
> will Ross stand idly by and let the losses
> continue 2. When he inevitably, finally does
> something, will he do what's necessary by cleaning
> house and hiring a new GM with the power to build
> the team the right way.

******************************************************

What has Gase done his ENTIRE HC career? How about getting the team to the playoffs his very first season? Where were the Fins before he came on board?

Just a reminder...Don Shula first year as HC: 8-6. Bill Belichick first year as HC: 6-10.

Give Gase a little time. He is a good coach; he is still getting his feet wet. One of the main problems with the Dolphins over the last many years is the owner(s) were too quick to fire their HC. Have to give Gase at least four years. Saying that, if he regresses during that third and fourth year, that will be a different story.

Gase is young; give him time to grow.

Wouldn't hurt if he had more solid players to work with.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: November 14, 2017 09:59AM

> What has Gase done his ENTIRE HC career? How
> about getting the team to the playoffs his very
> first season? Where were the Fins before he came
> on board?
>
> Just a reminder...Don Shula first year as HC: 8-6.
> Bill Belichick first year as HC: 6-10.
>
> Give Gase a little time. He is a good coach; he is
> still getting his feet wet. One of the main
> problems with the Dolphins over the last many
> years is the owner(s) were too quick to fire their
> HC. Have to give Gase at least four years. Saying
> that, if he regresses during that third and fourth
> year, that will be a different story.
>
> Gase is young; give him time to grow.
>
> Wouldn't hurt if he had more solid players to work
> with.

Last year was last year. It was also a season where everything went right in close games. Remember the Cleveland game. Miami should've lost that game because ironically enough, our present kicker missed a makeable FG in the final seconds. Hard to sustain that sort of thing. What we're seeing this year is what happens when everything doesn't just fall your way. What Gase/Tannenbaum have done is assemble the worst offensive line in the league. Traded away one of the few bright spots at running back leaving us with a undrafted, slow footed RB and a guy who was a backup in college. They elevated a linebacker coach to be defensive coordinator so that we could keep the same system in place that didn't work last year. Am I saying that Gase should be fired? No. Not yet. I think once you hire a coach, you have to give him time to put his players and system in place. But, I'm not encouraged. This team has gotten progressively worse each week. They don't seem prepared to play. Mental errors and penalties are way too much of an issue. The play calling is simplistic and predictable. I thought that the reason the play calling was dumbed down was because Ajayi didn't allow Gase to be more creative. I haven't seen much difference. The running game with the exception of 2 runs by Drake has been putrid. Damian Williams is a decent receiver but he is absolutely awful running the ball. I've seen faster geriatrics at nursing homes than Williams. Finally, Gase isn't even the main problem. Gary Stevens once famously said that you can't make chicken salad out of chicken sh**t. If Tannenbaum is picking your players, you can forget ever being a contender. Period. I know for a fact that Tannenbaum will continue to destroy the team with each passing draft class and free agency decisions. I'm mad as hell at Ross for screwing this team and taking the fun out of Sundays. It's his team and he can do whatever the hell he wants to it but it doesn't make it right. The Miami Dolphins were an iconic franchise and it makes me sick to see it in the hands of this collective group of losers and incompetents. There, now I feel better.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: November 14, 2017 10:48AM

Yup. That about says it.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: KB ()
Date: November 14, 2017 11:45AM

Fins72 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>...The Miami
> Dolphins were an iconic franchise and it makes me
> sick to see it in the hands of this collective
> group of losers and incompetents. There, now I
> feel better.

Well said. Did anyone through the 70's, 80's, and most of the 90's EVER think it would come to this...We are the 1970's Saints reborn. How long before fans with bags over their heads and signs that read 'Go Marlin's....and take the Dolphins with you!' Sad.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: JC ()
Date: November 14, 2017 01:23PM

KB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Fins72 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >...The Miami
> > Dolphins were an iconic franchise and it makes
> me
> > sick to see it in the hands of this collective
> > group of losers and incompetents. There, now I
> > feel better.
>
> Well said. Did anyone through the 70's, 80's, and
> most of the 90's EVER think it would come to
> this...We are the 1970's Saints reborn. How long
> before fans with bags over their heads and signs
> that read 'Go Marlin's....and take the Dolphins
> with you!' Sad.


In order to show up to the game with a bag over your head, you need to actually show up to the game in the first place. Don't think that's going to happen.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Date: November 14, 2017 01:35PM

Fins72 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Ross goes away. He's too much of a pampered Ivy
> > League socialite.
>
> Damn if it were only that easy. Treasure, do you
> have any pictures of him with a goat handy
> perchance?



Will a new owner Garantee a championship? Of course not. But I garanfucktintee we won't have a chance until he's given up the reins. Starts at the top.hes not afraid to spend money but he also thinks throwing enough of it will change things.

Get a tough guy back that the players respect like Dan Campbell. Get rid of the fancy leather seats on the 50 U.S. line. You want to create a fan buzz again? Cruise the parking lot before the game and upgrade tickets to that section. Get the rowdyest Mother Fers you can find. Put them behind the visting team also. CREATE AN ATMOSPHERE . And change that God damn logo!!!!

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: Fins72 ()
Date: November 15, 2017 07:14AM

>
> Get a tough guy back that the players respect like
> Dan Campbell. Get rid of the fancy leather seats
>

If it meant Tannenbaum and Grier getting fired, I'd settle for Naomi Campbell as head coach.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Date: November 15, 2017 03:00PM

Fins72 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Get a tough guy back that the players respect
> like
> > Dan Campbell. Get rid of the fancy leather
> seats
> >
>
> If it meant Tannenbaum and Grier getting fired,
> I'd settle for Naomi Campbell as head coach.


I bet the players follow her , make the lockeroom interesting anyway..............eye rolling smiley

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/15/2017 03:03PM by TreasurecoastPhinsfan.

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: November 15, 2017 04:56PM

Yeah, but no grabbing!

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: dolphan4545 ()
Date: November 16, 2017 01:02PM

"Then we will have an owner who will hire his immediate subordinates on the basis of competence who will in turn draft players and hire coaches and assistants based on competence who will in turn play players based on competence."

??? How do you know THAT? Chances are good that he would sell the team to another like himself- a super-rich guy with no experience running an NFL team (very few people have that experience!). ALL owners just learn as they go, just as even Kraft and Jones did. And, they all make mistakes. Ross has been a good owner in that he opens his checkbook to get things done, but it takes time to learn how to judge football personnel. In the beginning, you hire people you know that have some experience in the league, then you figure out if they're any good or not. Ross is about at that point- I'd hate to start over with a total novice as an owner.

Rick

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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: November 16, 2017 05:45PM


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Re: Nothing Will Change Until
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: November 17, 2017 04:36AM

Had campbell been the coach and tannehill still got hurt......Everybody would be blaming campbell like it was his fault just like they are blaming gase.

Gase just has so much to work with...

If tannehill was never hurt the dolphins would have a winning record and gase would had never been ripped.

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