in this draft. Why not? I"m about ready to give up on Tanny so why......not a late rounder?

4000 yds , 3 yrs in a row and your about to give up on him. With No Coaching support , No Oline, and no consistency at the receiver spot. 1/2 the NFL was hoping we couldn't sign him so they could scoop him up and give him the supports he deserves.

We have so many holes to fill , having resigned Moore, grabbing a QB would be as stupid as taking Tom Brady in fantasy football for september.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

I too have my doubts on Tanne now at times when things are perfect he misses the throw. My biggest issue w/ him now is that he got two receivers knocked out chasing bad throws and my greates nightmare now is him stringing Parker out for a tragic hit. Some think its great that Parks has the talent 'to elevate' or 'climb the stairs' to go after Tannes high throws. That is just setting that guy up to get crushed. Tanne is still our starting qb but if e grabbed someone as high as rnd 4 I would not mind it.

I don't see the Dolphins taking a QB in this draft. New coaching might surprise many of us by giving Tannehill that little extra that makes him a top 10 QB. If his play fails to improve this coming season, I can see a big possibility in drafting a replacement. IMO, the team needs to make the playoffs and Tannehill needs to show that he can lead the team when the team is down a couple of scores and pull off a victory. He is currently not known for doing either.

Every time we needed a 4th quarter comeback........Ive given up on tannehill.


And i hope iam completely wrong on him.

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't see the Dolphins taking a QB in this
> draft. New coaching might surprise many of us by
> giving Tannehill that little extra that makes him
> a top 10 QB. If his play fails to improve this
> coming season, I can see a big possibility in
> drafting a replacement. IMO, the team needs to
> make the playoffs and Tannehill needs to show that
> he can lead the team when the team is down a
> couple of scores and pull off a victory. He is
> currently not known for doing either.

That's about how I see it. Im expecting to see 3-5 players raise their performance with our improvement in coaching. Jamar Taylor was a helluva cb at Boise State, our guards play well in spurts better coaching maybe will give them consistency. Same with our entire defense. Our coaches really stunk when it came to player development except the TE's.

So your all really going to throw this all on Tannehill. No one else deserves any blame? Have you watched the same Dolphins I have? I saw a Head coach who gave up on him with 2 minutes left in the second quarter of a game against a division rival(Bills) Hows is he supposed to believe in himself when your head coach doesnt? Horrible horrible coaching and no support for his entire NFL career. No Oline, no consistency at receivers. changing Offensive coordinators...and expense defense that gave games away...and he still managed to get 4000 yds!!

And threw it all the guy has remained classy, encouraging, he takes blame and never puts it on anyone. I can understand being down on the dolphins admin. The ownership and staff. Absolutely. But for a kid who never played the position in college , with no help , I've seen guys with much more do way way less.

AND.....as we speak has our Oline been improved? We let our starting RB go. But we added more free agents on an already expensive as hell defense. But you want to blame Tannehill.......yeah makes sense.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Treasure, there is no one on this board that I have more respect for than you but............it's time to give it up.

I'm all in for a QB, and for trading away RT.
It's not going to work with RT. Now, they can't trade him because they have obligation to fans and veterans and the team in general. It is still not widely known that RT has failed, so they must stick with him.

As far as the draft, the question is what QB, because it cannot be just any QB. I would take Cook. I would also be interested in Golson.

Trust us TCPF........Chren would love nothing more than seeing tannehill become a superstar.....just like i would...


But things have a limit...


Half the yardage he got was in garbage time when teams were playing prevent defense in the 4th.


And i speak for chren too...I dont think he minds...


PS...I wish i was wrong but i just don't see it in him.

Ditto, SamSam.

Tanne ups his game and proves all of his detractors wrong (including me) or he's gone in 2017. Trust me I hope we go 11-5 and into the playoffs w/ Tanne at the helm.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Treasure, there is no one on this board that I
> have more respect for than you but............it's
> time to give it up.

********************************************************

Wrong, Chryen.

As has been said...three straight 4,000 yard seasons, and that coming with no OL and no real running game (because of the coaching), AND.....how many sacks has the guy taken and still not missed a game?

Yeah, yeah, I've seen it on this board many times..."Well, 4,000 yards is no big deal anymore." Yes and no, but the guy is always there and gives it his all. Just saw on NFL HQ this morn that RT was the 9th rated QB in total yards. Pretty good for a guy many here want to get rid of. Geez, with the problems at QB around the league one would think you guys would be pleased with RT and look to improve the MANY areas that Miami is hurting at (which is basically the whole damn team).

OL has been a major problem since RT arrived. Has it been improved? They STILL don't know who the hell their starting guards will be.

If Miami's OL improves to a respectable level and RT doesn't meet your (the board's) standards, then I guess it is time for some other team to scoop him up and be happy as hell.

Then Miami can start their new rookie QB who doesn't play as well as RT then everyone can cry once again.

No offense, Chryen, but it is you and a few others on this board who need to give it up. As the old saying goes...you don't know what you've got 'til its gone!

Capkoi.....We talk when its 2016 season and we miss playoffs once again...


PS. A good QB makes everyone around him better. Tannehill does not have the luxury of making everyone around him better because he is no good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2016 11:25AM by samsam3738.

1. The long pass.....Tannehill is no good


2. Blaming the OL for not holding blocks too long......Its called the quick release.....>Tannehill does not have that...


3. Accuracy......Tannehill is going to get some receiver next year injured.


4. OL holds blocks longer than expected.......When he has all day to deliver the football he misses receivers left and right.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 1. The long pass.....Tannehill is no good
>
>
> 2. Blaming the OL for not holding blocks too
> long......Its called the quick
> release.....>Tannehill does not have that...
>
>
> 3. Accuracy......Tannehill is going to get some
> receiver next year injured.
>
>
> 4. OL holds blocks longer than expected.......When
> he has all day to deliver the football he misses
> receivers left and right.

**********************************************

Sigh!

RT's value over replacement is really low. I have him rated about 16th best QB in the league, and he adds about 17 pts per game, which is average. It's not disastrous but it's not good enough either. There are worse QBs, and there are better ones. Brady and Palmer add about 25 pts per game.

Last year, RT was better than Big Ben, Matt Ryan, Flacco, Peyton, Luck, Cutler, Alex Smith, Bradford, Bridgewater, Hoyer, Foles, Romo.

We could add another average Qb and would not miss a beat. For example, Fitz, Fitz is better than RT, his value is about 20 pts per game. Fitz ranks as 12th best Qb on my ranking.


This is how I ranked QB, as far as their point contribution to offense per game:

1. Tom Brady NE - 25.09
2. Carson Palmer AZ - 24.48

3. Cam Newton CAR - 23.86
4. Drew Brees NO - 23.70
5. Kirk Cousins WASH - 23.28
6. Russell Wilson SEA - 22.24
7. Eli Manning NYG - 22.21

8. Mathew Stafford DET - 20.92
9. Phillip Rivers SD - 20.92
10. Blake Bortles JAX - 20.63

11. Ryan Fitzpatrick NYJ - 19.90
12. Derek Carr OAK - 19.90
13. Andy Dalton CIN - 19.71
14. Aaron Rodgers GB - 19.53
15. Jameis Winston TB - 18.08

16. Ryan Tannehill MIA - 17.62
17. Ben Roethlisberger PIT - 17.61
18. Matt Ryan ATL - 17.54
19. Jay Cutler CHI - 16.96
20. Tyrod Taylor BUF - 16.48
21. Alex Smith KC - 16.32

22. Sam Bradford PHI - 15.22
23. Marcus Mariota TEN - 14.71
24. Brian Hoyer HOU - 14.32
25. Teddy Bridgewater MIN - 13.68
26. Joe Flacco BAL - 13.62
27. Josh McCown CLE - 12.20
28. Andrew Luck IND - 10.83


29. Peyton Manning DEN - 7.95
30. Nick Foles LA - 7.88
31. Colin Kaepernick SF - 7.29
32. Tony Romo DAL - 6.63

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Treasure, there is no one on this board that I
> have more respect for than you but............it's
> time to give it up.


Appreciate the compliment.

So pick the best QB around. Aron Rodgers? Or how about Luck? The Best QB in the draft in which we selected Tanny.

Do you think Rodgers would have done 1/2 as well with this lousy Team? How about Luck? hes been injured. I dont see the Colts making any great improvements. We have had National controversies (Bullygate) Horrible drafts (Dion Jordon) Horrible coaching and a revolving door of Offensive Coordinators. What more do you want from him? The fact that hes not bad mouthing this team and he didn't sign elsewhere (The Texans had a huge hard on for him and its his home state) shows alot to me. And you guys still wont give him credit.

I have optimism only because we have a new head coach , but I still dont see any great strides in the Offensive line. I'm hoping they trade down and add depth to whats possibly the worst Oline in the NFL. Don't even get me started on the under performing defense.

You guys remind me of a car with a few flat tires. But instead of fixing the problem you want to change out the engine for a bigger faster one. Guess what? You can have a 700HP motor but without new Tires you ain't going nowhere.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> in this draft. Why not? I"m about ready to give
> up on Tanny so why......not a late rounder?

Ryan Tannehill deserves one or two more seasons to prove himself to be our quarterback going forwards. In reality, Joe Philbin last one or two years too long. After 2013, bully gate and the first collapse, it was clear Philbin needed to go but our owner kept him. Then after 2014, with issues between Philbin and Tannehill, and other lacklustre coaching decisions and failings - our owner again decided to keep him. Finally we got rid of him early last season, but our season pretty much was a dead rubber at that point. So for his first four years Tannehill has been forced to deal with a lacklustre head coach and just generally questionable coaching. He now has a top coordinator as his head coach, who has his back, and could very well be the guy to take Ryan Tannehill's game to the next level. It is pretty clear this organisation wants Tannehill to succeed and is invested in him as our quarterback for at least this season, if not the next two seasons before it becomes financially viable to move on.

For me, Tannehill will probably never be an elite quarterback, but he can certainly be a productive starting quarterback in this league as evidenced by his output under lacklustre coaching. Give him a coaching upgrade, a better O-Line, more production from his supporting cast on offense, and a better overall performance from our defense - then this team can win with Tannehill under center, but he needs to be given a chance to prove himself (or truly fail). The past three seasons he's been productive. Let's see what he can do under Gase before condemning him to the scrap heap. Because the way I see it, if we made Tannehill available for trade tonight we would have the Broncos, Browns, Jets, and perhaps the 49ers phoning us up to see what it would take to get a deal done. If he doesn't start here and we give up on him, another team will gladly take him on as their starting quarterback without a shadow of a doubt.

That said, I wouldn't be against using a late round pick on a quarterback prospect but let's be realistic here - how many late round quarterbacks in recent years have actually developed into starting quarterbacks?

I know that Tony Romo and Kurt Warner are the poster boys for undrafted quarterbacks. And Tom Brady is the poster boy for late round quarterbacks. But those guys come along once in a while and generally the majority of the top quarterbacks are first round draft picks, with some day two picks here and there. If we look at the current/projected starting quarterbacks there are:

- 22 first round (includes the Rams future first round pick), 6 second (Brees, Carr, Dalton, Osweiler, Kaepernick, Geno), 1 third (Wilson), 1 fourth (Cousins), 2 sixth (Brady, Taylor).

As you can say, the majority are first round quarterbacks. We could even boost that number by one if the 49ers decide to start Gabbert over Kaepernick, or draft a first round quarterback; and likewise, the Jets could decide to draft a first round quarterback, or trade for Sam Bradford, and the Eagles would potentially turn to their new second overall pick. So potentially we could even see that number of first round quarterbacks go as high as 25.

So while I do not disagree with the idea of drafting a late round pick, generally speaking they don't usually amount to franchise quarterbacks. There are exceptions like Brady and Taylor, likewise there are exceptions in the undrafted category, or the middle rounds. But the issue we would have is Matt Moore has signed a contract extension and we already have two former drafted quarterback prospects on our roster in Logan Thomas and Zac Dyster. Do we have room for another? I guess if Cardale Jones is available on day three I wouldn't be against a speculative pick. But personally I don't see us drafting a quarterback on day one, two, or three this year. Tannehill will get at least one or two more seasons, at which point we may decide to move on if we haven't progressed as far as this team wants to with him under center.

But that's the point, Mike. Late round .....so what the heck and why not? I mean, would we rather have a late round offensive lineman? Look what we did with top picks of linemen like Dion Jordan, etc.

It seems to me Philbin spent his entire time in Miami running scared and passed it on to Tannehill. All he did was restrict T-hill and tell him what NOT to do (as apposed to teaching him how to learn).

Don't throw interceptions.
Don't run.
Don't change the play call.
Don't worry about cadence (just say go-go).
Don't throw the deep pass.
Don't let the RB run the ball too much.
Don't get too secure because I don't believe in you (I want Carr).
Don't worry about being a leader because the team knows I don't believe in you.

...but then he contradicted himself because he would expect T-hill to throw 600 times per season (6th in the NFL) and bail him out of a bad coaching job/game plan.

The guy was a complete joke from the day he walked on the field demanding players tie their shoes and pick up scraps of paper from the field. He had no personality and NO balls! Ross should have hired his boy to sell real estate or clean houses. It matched his personality better.

Tony Sparano would have been twice the coach of JP and we probably would have been to the playoffs twice by now.

Here's what Gase will do for Tannehill....

Treat him as the unquestioned leader instead of instilling doubt in the locker room. Letting immature WR's to act like infants, losing control of the locker room and letting coaches bring in blow up sex dolls without knowing the pulse of the locker room, etc.

Run the ball to force teams to play base defense to set up the pass.

Run the ball to control the clock and rest the defense.

Call plays that keep the defense guessing.

Call plays that take advantage of mismatches.

Call plays and routes that utilize the WR strengths.

Not force bad players into the lineup (every guard we've had since Incognito left) just so they can get experience.

Let him audible out of bad play calls with something other than the read-option gimmick.

provide him with an NFL caliber QB coach instead of a 28 year old graduate assistant from the NCAA.

And that's just a start with common sense items....

Tanne gets this season to prove himself and then he stays or goes. 5th year take the dump or get off the part. As I said before I think 3/4 players will raise their level of play with good coaching. If people can blame Philbin and company for Tanne's poor play then the same goes for guys like Misi, Thomas and Jamar Taylor. The entire team actually. Im hoping Gase and his coaches get these guys together and we see improvement at every position on this team.

Saying that I still would not mind if we took a qb in rnd 3-4. Even if Lynch is there in rnd 1 I would not mind if we grabbed him.

Drafting a QB in round 1 follows the same path of handcuffing Tannehill instead of helping him.

I wouldn't lump Misi in with Taylor or DT. Misi has been solid at 4 positions. His issue is missed games/injuries. He'll never be great. Taylor was never solid. I think Misi would have had a better career if he were allowed to start and stay with a team that ran a 3-4 defense where he was exclusively the SOLB. He had 4.5 sacks, 2 PD, 2 FR and a TD in 11 starts at that position as a rookie.

Taylor was given an opportunity last year and choked by blowing assignments, etc and was benched in favor a converted rookie WR who played better with the same opportunity. He will have a new DC but same position coach. I don't expect much from him except to be cut. Lippett already started out with starters in mini-camp.

I'm not sure if they would cut Douglas after only one year but these guys all seem to be on the same slow path to nowhere. Thomas 4th year, Turner 3rd year, Douglas 2nd year. I don't see any of them beating out Bushrod or Urbik.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Drafting a QB in round 1 follows the same path of
> handcuffing Tannehill instead of helping him.
>

Like Shula did to Woodley by drafting Marino?

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JoeFootball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Drafting a QB in round 1 follows the same path
> of
> > handcuffing Tannehill instead of helping him.
> >
>
> Like Shula did to Woodley by drafting Marino?

*******************************************************

Apples and oranges.

Marino fell into Shula's lap.

Depends on how you define "falling into a lap". True, Marino was the Sixth QB drafted in the first round and most had rated the others ahead of him but it was because they downplayed his success at Pitt.

But the important link I brought up was the fact that Woodley had been in the SuperBowl the prior year.

When thinking of a shopping lists, his position would normally not be on an organizations' shopping list, particularly that very team that had made it to the SuperBowl a few months earlier with a quarterback basically only in his second or third year (was it) after Griese had retired.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But that's the point, Mike. Late round .....so
> what the heck and why not? I mean, would we
> rather have a late round offensive lineman? Look
> what we did with top picks of linemen like Dion
> Jordan, etc.

I wouldn't be against us drafting a late round quarterback. There are some appealing options like Vernon Adams, Jeff Driskel, Cody Kessler, or Trevone Boykin. Or perhaps we could look at a mid round pick like Kevin Hogan or Jacoby Brissett. We could develop them and perhaps they could be the successor Matt Moore as the back up quarterback, which would save us some money; maybe they could develop and get a chance like AJ McCarron and prove they could be a viable starting quarterback giving us a trade asset or a challenger if RT struggles. Essentially I agree with the principal of drafting a quarterback to develop, what I would question is us drafting a quarterback on day one or day two.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Depends on how you define "falling into a lap".
> True, Marino was the Sixth QB drafted in the first
> round and most had rated the others ahead of him
> but it was because they downplayed his success at
> Pitt.
>
> But the important link I brought up was the fact
> that Woodley had been in the SuperBowl the prior
> year.
>
> When thinking of a shopping lists, his position
> would normally not be on an organizations'
> shopping list, particularly that very team that
> had made it to the SuperBowl a few months earlier
> with a quarterback basically only in his second or
> third year (was it) after Griese had retired.


Obviously nowhere near old enough to remember Woodley, I managed to catch the Dan Marino era from the mid-1990s but even then I was young and would only have been about 9 maybe when Marino called it a day. So not old enough to have really appreciated it first hand, but in regards to the Woodley-Marino debate,

But from what I read, Woodley didn't really perform to a high level

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But that's the point, Mike. Late round .....so
> what the heck and why not? I mean, would we
> rather have a late round offensive lineman? Look
> what we did with top picks of linemen like Dion
> Jordan, etc.

I wouldn't be against us drafting a late round quarterback. There are some appealing options like Vernon Adams, Jeff Driskel, Cody Kessler, or Trevone Boykin. Or perhaps we could look at a mid round pick like Kevin Hogan or Jacoby Brissett. We could develop them and perhaps they could be the successor Matt Moore as the back up quarterback, which would save us some money; maybe they could develop and get a chance like AJ McCarron and prove they could be a viable starting quarterback giving us a trade asset or a challenger if RT struggles. Essentially I agree with the principal of drafting a quarterback to develop, what I would question is us drafting a quarterback on day one or day two.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Depends on how you define "falling into a lap".
> True, Marino was the Sixth QB drafted in the first
> round and most had rated the others ahead of him
> but it was because they downplayed his success at
> Pitt.
>
> But the important link I brought up was the fact
> that Woodley had been in the SuperBowl the prior
> year.
>
> When thinking of a shopping lists, his position
> would normally not be on an organizations'
> shopping list, particularly that very team that
> had made it to the SuperBowl a few months earlier
> with a quarterback basically only in his second or
> third year (was it) after Griese had retired.


Obviously I'm not old enough to remember Woodley, heck, I wasn't really old enough to appreciate what Dan Marino did for us because I was 9 when he retired. But in regards to the Woodley-Marino debate, Woodley's stats don't really jump out and scream "starting quarterback", so I'm not surprised they ended up taking a quarterback in the first round. And from what I understand, the year we made the Super Bowl it was more down to the defense and running game rather than the quarterback play?

True.

"Drafting a QB in round 1 follows the same path of handcuffing Tannehill instead of helping him. "

This thing is about helping the Phins more than Tanne. Tanne has been here for 4 seasons again crap or get off the pot and that goes for the other guys too.

Misi has been here what 7, and finally had an avg year last year and people are crowing about it. His solid has been very mediocre.


So yeah Im still banking that guys like Taylor, Turner and Thomas can improve with better coaching like everyone else.