Assuming these players are gone....

1 Ten: Laremy Tunsil
2 Cle: Carson Wentz
3 SD: DeForest Buckner
4 Dal: Joey Bosa
5 Jax: Jalen Ramsey
6 Bal: Myles Jack
7 SF: Jared Goff
8 Phi: Ezekial Elliott
9 TB: Shaq Lawson
10 NYG: Reggie Ragland
11 Chi: Ronnie Stanley
12 NO: Vernon Hargreaves
13 Mia:

...who would you take with the 13th pick? and why?

Reggie Ragland
Darron Lee

Jack Conklin
Taylor Decker

Kevin Dodd
Noah Spence
Emmanuel Ogbah

Mackensie Alexander
Eli Apple
William Jackson III

A'Shawn Robinson
Jarran Reed
Sheldon Rankins
Vernon Butler

Derrick Henry
Paxton Lynch

Other?

The best value typically lies with CB, DE, QB, OT.

I would have to narrow it down to Sheldon Rankins, William Jackson & Jack Conklin.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2016 06:25AM by JoeFootball.

If the Browns would learn from their mistakes they wouldn't take a QB at 2. They can get a someone like Ramsey at 2 and a QB in the 2nd that'll be comparable to the overrated QBs at the top of this draft.

That position is a killer and when you reach for one it sets you back.

To answer your question I'd take William Jackson or Darron Lee.

Lee is another stud from OSU that was overshadowed by Bosa.

Much like the Dolphins, their mistakes have been due to the fact that they miss on key players and trade up for flops. It's just poor talent evaluation in the draft as well as FA. They are twice as bad as Miami but....they have hit on some top notch o-linemen.

They had the 8th pick in 2014 and took CB, Justin Gilbert. They then traded back into the first round for Johnny Jackass instead of taking Derek Carr. They could have walked away with OBJ and Carr. Talk about turning your franchise around.

I'm sure they would have much rather taken Ryan Tannehill in 2012 instead of Trent Richardson as well.

They gave big money to Brian Hartline and Dwayne Bowe so that shows some of their failures in FA.

I think they HAVE to take a QB at 2. I know they suck consistently but how often do you land a top 2 pick and your choice of QB's? I am not as high on Ramsey as most are and I could say the same for Bosa and Buckner. I don't see elite players at the top of this draft.

I think Jalen is a FS. Not a cornerback. Something about him makes me leery. 5 career picks and only 9 PD's last year so he is not a ball hawk. He just looks awkward to me with stiff hips and a bit out-toed. He may be the biggest (surprise) disappointment from FSU since Peter Warrick.

I would be fine with the William Jackson selection at 13. With any luck, one of those teams I listed will take someone off the board. I know NOLA loves A'Shawn Robinson and they have a need at tackle. It would be great for us if we could land Hargreaves. Then we could take a RB on the second day like Booker. That fills two huge needs where we lack true starters.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2016 08:12AM by JoeFootball.

The problem we would face if they are the first twelve picks is that there wouldn't really be a sure fire, can't miss, type of pick left on the board for us...

When you look at Conklin or Decker, they aren't elite tackle prospects. They project to be potential guard or right tackle options. At #13 you would generally hope for more than that unless you are getting an elite guard prospect like a Zack Martin. In this draft you could arguably address the guard or right tackle position on day two, not that we need to address right tackle but I guess we could always move Ja'wuan James to right guard.

The defensive ends and tackles mentioned project between rounds 1-2. There are some players with a ton of talent like A'Shawn Robinson or an Emmanuel Ogbah, but they come with questions over their consistency. Again, there is good enough depth on the D-Line to land a good player in the second or third round.

If you look at the corner back prospects they aren't overly appealing. Eli Apple has good size and athleticism, but he's raw and would need time to develop. Mackensie Alexander is a Marmite prospect, some people say he's a first rounder while others say he's a day two player, but he's got the talent to be a decent player. As for William Jackson is certainly athletic but he isn't physical, and would again be more of a project than a day one starter.

As for Derrick Henry, he's certainly a talented running back but I doubt he would be in the conversation at thirteen overall. He would be more of a pick for the end of the first round (eg Seahawks or Panthers) or early second round.

Anyway, with those twelve players off the board I would be most interested in the following three players:

#1 Kevin Dodd: Our starting pass rushers are 34 and 31 years old, sooner or later we are going to have to find a successor for one or both of them. Dodd has excellent size, athleticism and strength to be excel in the role as a 4-3 defensive end. He might need to take a season or two to develop into a starter, and a role as our third DE behind Mario and Cam would be ideal for his development.

#2 Eli Apple: He has excellent size and athleticism. He's still raw and needs to learn the position, so he's a project and we can't really afford that with our corner back situation, but he's got all the attributes and upside that make him a very tempting pick.

#3 Mackensie Alexander: He doesn't have ideal size, but he is very athletic and is a good fit in man coverage. He has a good reputation as well. Like Apple, he is a project and will need time to adjust which doesn't make him ideal, but the talent is there.

I think Conking is very similar to Martin. Both were college tackles. Put Conklin at either guard spot and as insurance for injury at tackle. Injured tackles have killed us for the last two seasons. Many say he can play LT but will need some time to work on his foot work so he is an option to take over for Albert...who was also projected as a guard coming out of college.

Like it or not I think the FO is set at DE. We have three guaranteed to be on the 53 with Wake, Williams and Branch. Then we have Moore, McCain and possibly Jordan in addition to Fede.they will only keep 4.

I would take Derrick Henry.

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would take Derrick Henry.


I agree Chyrene. This guy is a perfect fit with our other two fast speedy RB's. He's almost a FB! However 13 is way too high to draft him. He might even be available in the second round. I would love Miami to trade down and get more mid level picks to use on Lineman. Grab Henry high in the first round .

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Not just in this draft, but every draft, I would go for a standout exciting offensive player in the first round. In this draft that is Josh Doctson first, and Henry second, Cook third for me.

In absence of those offensive players, I would go with a relentless lb, then a safety, then EDGE. In this draft tho, In order of preference then 4. Jaylon Smith, 5. Noah Spence, 6. Karl Joseph.

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Conking is very similar to Martin. Both
> were college tackles. Put Conklin at either guard
> spot and as insurance for injury at tackle.
> Injured tackles have killed us for the last two
> seasons. Many say he can play LT but will need
> some time to work on his foot work so he is an
> option to take over for Albert...who was also
> projected as a guard coming out of college.
>
> Like it or not I think the FO is set at DE. We
> have three guaranteed to be on the 53 with Wake,
> Williams and Branch. Then we have Moore, McCain
> and possibly Jordan in addition to Fede.they will
> only keep 4.

I don't think Jordan comes into their draft preparation. There's no guarantee he will be reinstated, let alone reinstated before the draft, and even if he was you can't pass on talent in the draft and rely on a player with two suspensions and multiple failed drugs tests. And that's without mentioning his transition to the NFL has been far from smooth with him yet to have made any noticeable impact.

The the other names are depth chart guys, not really future starters unless one of them truly breaks out and does something unexpected.

I like Cam, Mario and Branch. But adding someone like Dodd would give us another pass rusher and help secure our future at the position. Wake is 34 how long can he realistically start and put up lots of sacks? Wake is also a free agent next season, we might fancy our chances at extending his deal but there's no guarantee he will want to if we disagree over price or he wants to sign with a team that can get him a ring. Mario is 31 and needs to bounce back, he's contracted for two seasons, if he returns to form we might extend him if the price is right, though again he could go chasing a ring if we aren't in a position to compete by that point. There's also the ptential that if he plays like he did last season he might not even stay a second season with a $10 million cap hit.

Essentially we might be set at DE this season, but our future as near as next off season we could be in the market for a DE or DEs again. With Branch signed we have a good impact player off the bench, or possibly someone that could step in and start. But none of the rest can really be relied upon. If we draft Dodd, we then have a guy capable of becoming a starter. It might be overkill adding another DE this off season, but it gives us depth, an impact player off the bench, and a future starter at the position. For me, if Dodd is seen as the best player we should take him because you can never have too many pass rushers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2016 08:52AM by Mike8272.

Darron Lee when Misi is a starter that would be a huge up grade. He can cover taller TE's (Gronk). Rush the passer and play the run.

Most of what you are saying makes total sense. I was looking at it from the front office's POV. Judging by what they have done in the off season. It's not like they are known for doing what's most logical.

Just like I think THEY believe they are set on the o-line by the signing of a mid tier guard and an injured, aging LT who they are projecting to guard. I doubt they take an o-lineman in the first two rounds.

Let me preface this by saying I don't view myself as any sort of talent evaluator but I just take an overall view from all the reports and what I've seen in games and workouts.

I like Dodd but due to his lack of experience I am not sure he will make an instant impact. He may need time to develop. I think he is the prototype SDE but maybe not explosive enough to be dominant. Perfect size, great motor, etc. He is not twitched up like Cam Wake but I think he would help us in the run game which we need. I think he will need time to adjust to the NFL game but could be a nice compliment to Cam Wake as someone who can play in the base defense.

I know it's an unorthodox way of evaluation but I am just leery of Clemson DE's. We just signed one in Andre Branch who has under-performed over his first 4 years and then there's Da'Quan Bowers, Ricky Sapp, Phillip Merling, Gaines Adams. Vic Beasley had 4 sacks as a rookie and certainly still has time to develop but he was that twitched up speed rusher with those elite physical skills like 4.53 speed (compared to Dodd's 4.89 speed).

Most have him ranked anywhere from 18 to 30 and Mayock doesn't even have him in his top 5 edge rushers. If you need time to develop AND lack elite physical skills then you usually drop lower in the draft.

His comp's are Michael Bennett and Kony Ealy.

At 13, I at least want a top 2 player at their position.

That trade down dropped us right out of the prime range. All we can hope is that one of those top 10 guys drop to 13 and there's a decent chance it will happen, IMO.

Vernon Hargreaves, Zeke Elliott or Reggie Ragland.

I am also leaning Cook at 13. We need a QB who can play, that is the bottom line.

If you are interested in brief to the point, amateur, maybe semi pro, FILM ANALYSIS of a number of draft prospects, check out VochLombardi on YT. Cool dude doing something very unique on YT as far as the draft analysis and pumping out a ton of evals.

www.youtube.com/user/vochie63/videos?nohtml5=False

At 13 i will take someone as good as Jason Taylor or my main man Zach Thomas.


Our LBing crew will be an injured mess by the end of the first game of the season Or last game of pre season.

Connor Cook at 13...LOL!

Sam says....just take a hall of fame player at 13....no problem!

HAHAHAHHAA. you guys are hilarious!

Connor Cook = Ryan Mallett



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2016 08:43AM by JoeFootball.

I love how you laugh at Connor Cook at 13, but you put up Jarran Reed and Eli Apple. Who tf is Eli Apple and Jarran Reed? And some of the other names in OP, players of no consequence!

Connor Cook is a winning pro style QB in Big 10 with a great arm and head for the game. Connor Cook is worthy of a top 5 pick! He is a franchise QB.

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love how you laugh at Connor Cook at 13, but you
> put up Jarran Reed and Eli Apple. Who tf is Eli
> Apple and Jarran Reed? And some of the other names
> in OP, players of no consequence!
>
> Connor Cook is a winning pro style QB in Big 10
> with a great arm and head for the game. Connor
> Cook is worthy of a top 5 pick! He is a franchise
> QB.

The difference with Connor Cook, and the same could be said about any potential first round quarterback, is that if we take a quarterback in the first round we are essentially saying "we give up on Ryan Tannehill".

Now Tannehill has his flaws. He is probably never going to be an elite quarterback. But he is our franchise quarterback and has enough ability to be a decent starting quarterback in this league. Like it or not, he is going to get at least one or two seasons under Gase before we even consider drafting another quarterback for competition or to succeed him. Gase came here to coach Tannehill, we are not drafting a first round quarterback because we don't need one.

The reason Connor Cook is not in consideration for a top five pick is very simple. He struggles with accuracy, which is clearly shown in his sub-58 pass completion. His footwork is lacklustre and ends up making a lot of throws purely on his arm, not putting his lower body through the throw, which in turn significantly affects his accuracy. He also doesn't always go through his progressions as he should. Essentially he is not a day one starter and he's not as polished as Kirk Cousins was coming out of college. He might be the Spartans' all-time leading passer and their winningest quarterback, but he is the type of quarterback that is going to need to spend time on the bench and will need coaching up before he's anywhere near ready enough to start in the NFL. I'll be honest, I would have serious reservations about drafting a quarterback that completed less than 58 percent of his passes in each season he was a starting quarterback.

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love how you laugh at Connor Cook at 13, but you
> put up Jarran Reed and Eli Apple. Who tf is Eli
> Apple and Jarran Reed? And some of the other names
> in OP, players of no consequence!
>
> Connor Cook is a winning pro style QB in Big 10
> with a great arm and head for the game. Connor
> Cook is worthy of a top 5 pick! He is a franchise
> QB.

I don't want either one of those guys at 13 but I'd take them over Cook any day of the week.

They were put up on this list because they were the consensus top players (by scouts, not fans) available after the others I listed were taken. For some reason, Connor Cook is in the middle of the second round but will likely slide up to low 1 for a desperate team like the Broncos if Lynch is gone.

I laughed because it's ridiculous to think Miami is taking a QB.

I laughed because you said "we need a QB who can play" when some people want to knock RT for pocket presence, accuracy issues and leadership and you choose the ONE guy, with not only questions about pocket presence, accuracy issues and leadership BUT character questions and maturity questions as well.

Miami is not taking a QB.

I agree with you, it would be a shocker if they went QB at 13. I'm just speaking for myself. I don't believe in RT.

By the same token, it would be equally shocking if they went DT.

True. Mike T and his ego believe in Earl but they also believe Phillips will take the next step. As atrocious as we were vs the run last year, I think it's too big of a risk. Especially with questions about our new pass rush as well as lack of corners. They should have at least replaced Mitchell while they let JP grow.

Failure to put a decent DT next to Suh is just wasting his prime years and fat contract. Why pay him ALL that money just to get triple teamed all year because the other DT's cannot fight thru one on one blocks?

I think if it were to be a DT, it would be Rankins and that's a stretch, IMO. The two guys from Alabama are 2 down run stuffers. DT's that get drafted high usually offer more of a pass rush.

I would rather take Ragland (if available) and move Alonso to WLB. At least that would help out our run defense.

No 43 DE's really worthy of 13, No DT's, No RB after Elliott, No corner after Hargreaves (but I do like WJ3). That leaves OL as the value pick for a starter.


Some are now mocking Darren Lee to Miami at 13 but I'm not feeling it.

The more I watch of WJ3, the more I like him. Reminds me of a bigger/faster Sam Madison. WJ led the nation in PD's with 23! and 5 picks.

The only question I have is experience and ability to start right away. That pushes his grade down a bit but someone will take him high with that 4.37 speed.

I love Phillips. Like, to me, the difference between Phillips and any other DT in this class is the same as between Myles Jack and any other LB in this class. I don't understand why he did not play more last season.

I think Noah Spence DE is top 10 talent. Lawson is up there too.

Ragland at 13 is too rich for me for that kind of player.

Melvin Gordon was picked at 15 last year. Henry is definitely worth a 13 pick, in a general sense. I think Henry will be excellent in ZBS, he is a patient one-cut downhill runner. He may not thrive if drafted by a power blocking team, just because he does not churn his feet. But in ZBS you don't need the feet, just pick a hole and roll downhill.

I don't know about corners. Those guys are losers. They can't block, their job description is to get torched. I don't know about spending the first pick on a corner, seems like a waste.

OL is a legit consideration. I'd just hate to pass on premier talent at skill position for an OL.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2016 06:32AM by thegreathoo.

Phillips did play last year. He started 4 games and had 430 snaps compared to Mitchell's 501....but the reason it wasn't earlier is because he struggled in the run defense and could not shed blocks. The good news is that he was just as good as Earl Mitchell when he subbed for him due to injury. Being a rookie compared to a 6th year player is pretty good I guess but it was Earl Mitchell after all.

Noah Spence was ok at Eastern Kentucky but he did not dominant the way I would have liked to see against lesser competition. 7.5 sacks is pretty weak considering he played Tennessee Tech, Eastern Illinois, Valparaiso, Austin Peay, Jacksonville State, Murray State & Tennessee-Martin. He should have had 20 sacks! He also did not show great physical skills by only running a 4.8 40. Throw in the MDMA issues and he's not even on my board.

I like Henry but Gase wants a pass catcher as well as pass blocker at RB and there's a chance he will be available in round 2.

Spending a high pick on a corner is pretty typical for most teams. Most teams would rather draft a CB than a RB with a high pick.

Henry can run and block, his pass catching is obviously questionable but that doesn't seem to be a huge role for an Alabama running back, plus it doesn't mean he can't do it if he is asked to do it in an NFL offense.

For example, Eddie Lacy didn't really do much as a pass catcher in the Alabama offense, but he's proven capable of playing that role on the Packers.

Another example would be TJ Yeldon. His catches totaled 11, 20, and 15 in college, but for the Jaguars last season he caught 36 and proved a good outlet for Bortles last season.

Maybe Henry could do the same if given a more expanded role in our offense?

That's true but I still wouldn't pull an Al Davis and draft a guy at 13 that I might get at 42 or with a trade up in the 2nd round for a 5th round draft pick.

Is he Eddie George or Brandon Jacobs? If he's Eddie then yes. Jacobs, not so much. Even Eddie didn't have the workload that DH had last year in Bama.

How much tread are left on those tires after 395 carries last year?

Every look at the stats for NFL RB's who had those type of carries in 16 games? (He did it in 15 games). They're not very good the following year.

DeMarco Murray 15, Ricky Williams 03, Eddie George 00, Jamal Anderson 98, Jamal Lewis 03, Shaun Alexander 05...the list goes on.

As far as Spence, he had 7.5 sacks. I agree he should get to QB more often, but part of that is also he played at EKU where he did not get pocket help from others.

If you watch Lawson vsAlabama on YT who had 12.5 sacks last season, he looks like he played with bum knees, he wore braces on both knees, and he ran like he was hurt.

Bosa who will be a top pick did not have many sacks.

It's about traits and health a bit, and Spence wins on the edge, consistently with explosion and rip moves. He can improve on spin move, but he wins. And as a pass rusher he looks to be a top 10 pick to me because of the traits.

It makes me very happy to see votes for Derrick Henry!

Thank you!

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It makes me very happy to see votes for Derrick
> Henry!
>
> Thank you!

Where exactly did you see this?

In this thread. ChyrenB.