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          Mayock Top 5...............
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Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: February 11, 2016 01:46PM


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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: February 11, 2016 02:13PM


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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: February 11, 2016 09:44PM

I have to be honest and say I don't remember what our highest needs were year over year, but I would actually characterize picks like Fletcher, Brown, Allen, Ginn as weird-rationale picks rather than PON or BPA or whatever. Everyone except Wanny knew we'd take Brees if he was there in the 2nd...but we "needed" Fletcher as our 3rd corner with Madison & Surtain. I about broke a television that day. With Williams gone, Saban picked Brown cuz he remembered him running over LSU in college..even though everyone knows you don't pick RB unless he's a future HoF in the top 10. So, it was a need, but illogical nonetheless. To be fair, that draft sucked at the top - lots of RBs, lots of busts...best pick, obviously would have been Rodgers...but I digress. Allen? I don't remember who our secondary were then, but he seemed like round 2 of Saban's love affair w/SEC. Cameron fell in love w/Ginn, his family and the entire town he came from.

I think Pouncey represents one of a few BPAs available then. Thank goodness we didn't pick one of the 3 QBs picked ahead of him.

With Odrick, I'll never be able to see him as much more than the result of some stubborn "I'll get my picks back for the Marshall trade" stand Ireland took. Had we stayed @ 12, we could have had Earl Thomas to pair with Reshad Jones. Demarius Thomas or Dez "is your mom a hooker" Bryant were available, among others. I can't remember if he was a need pick or not...but we passed on a few great players to land him when we traded down to recoup or 2nd round (Misi...instead of Gronk)

Although it's way too early to say this definitively, Parker seems like a true BPA pick. He seems to bring something to our WR crew that no one else does, though it could be argued that WR was our most complete unit going into the 2015 season.

Maybe my perspective - having typed all of this - is that even when we did pick for need, we allowed weird, illogical variables to taint the decisions.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: February 11, 2016 10:15PM

It's a stupid-but-fun exercise, but what if:
- we had either stayed put in 2010 and picked Earl Thomas or gone ahead and traded down and picked Gronk instead of Misi
- we had picked Dalton in 2011 (maybe even traded down to get him)
- in 2012 we don't need Tanny @ 8, so we pick Kuechly...just for fun, we also choose Wagner and Russell instead of the Seahawks getting them...now we've got too much young QB talent.
- 2013 we keep our original picks vs. trading for Jordan and get Sheldon Richardson and Tyrann Mathieu
- 2014, I'm ok with James and Landry. Frankly, it's too early to tell if players picked around them would be better/worse by any significant margin.

QB - Russell
RB - Miller
TE - Gronk
WR - Landry
WR - Parker
WR - Stills
OT - Albert
OT - James
OG -
C - Pouncey
OG -

DE - Vernon
DT - Richardson
DT -
DE - Wake
LB - Wagner
LB - Kuechly
LB - Jenkins
CB - Grimes
S - Jones
S - Matthieu
CB -

Who knows, maybe we decide to trade surplus QB talent for G talent. Maybe we do sign Suh for the large contract, or maybe we have enough talent on D so that his monster contract isn't as necessary a piece. Maybe the fact that we have enough talent across the board, helps us focus on fixing the OG issue rather than it being one of a dozen things that need improving. E.g. instead of having $9.5 million tied up in Jordan Cameron, maybe some of that money goes to a great FA OG.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: February 12, 2016 03:43AM


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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: February 12, 2016 06:20AM


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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: jsm08 ()
Date: February 12, 2016 07:03AM

As a Buckeye fan I'm not sure about the all the hype Eli Apple is getting. He got torched on a regular basis.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: February 12, 2016 08:48AM

I am intrigued by Myles Jack and Jaylen Smith. We've been without a stud MLB since 2008.

Most say they are both top 5 talent if not for injury.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: February 12, 2016 12:55PM

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am intrigued by Myles Jack and Jaylen Smith.
> We've been without a stud MLB since 2008.
>
> Most say they are both top 5 talent if not for
> injury.

**************************************************

Yeah, Joe, that's the problem....injuries!

They both would have been "for sure" top 10 picks, but their injuries have made teams rethink. Some teams won't worry about those injuries if they have enough talent already. They will go ahead and draft them.

I don't think Miami can afford to draft a guy (no matter the talent level) as Miami wouldn't have them on the field right away. Now, if the FO is thinking the team isn't really going anywhere this year anyway, then they just may go ahead and grab one of them for the future.

We will all just have to wait to see what the FO does to be able to know what their plans are.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: February 12, 2016 03:18PM

Wouldn't hurt as bad if these jabroni's would find some talent in the 2,3,4 or 5th rounds.

If someone told you that you would have the next Luke Keuchley/Patrick Willis but he wouldn't be ready until week 4, wouldn't you go for it?

Jack will be ready to start the season, Smith...not so much.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: jsm08 ()
Date: February 13, 2016 02:20AM

Todd Gurley seems to have turned out just fine.

I'd take either one of those guys at 8 if they're there.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: February 13, 2016 11:47AM

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wouldn't hurt as bad if these jabroni's would find
> some talent in the 2,3,4 or 5th rounds.
>
> If someone told you that you would have the next
> Luke Keuchley/Patrick Willis but he wouldn't be
> ready until week 4, wouldn't you go for it?
>
> Jack will be ready to start the season,
> Smith...not so much.


*******************************************************

To answer your question, Joe...yes, I would, in a heart beat! Any top ranked player who is coming off an injury but would be ready early in the season is a no-brainer.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: February 13, 2016 12:29PM

ACL and MCL for Jaylon Smith is a little scary. Myles Jack is interesting but also the meniscus is a little scary... Jack seems to be a little unknown where he will play in the NFL.. The guy looks more like a safety in the highlights I have seen then a true MLB. His cover skills and how he plays in the secondary so much were pretty crazy to see for a LB...


Also Patrick Willis and Luke Kuechly were more solid prospects coming out of college and neither of them went as high as 8.. And they are probably the 2 highest drafted MLBs in the last 15 years or so.. So taking either of these guys with major injuries and not rated as high as Kuechly or Willis were, at 8, doesnt sound that solid to me... I am not a good enough scout to tell you yes or no on them, so dont get me wrong.. But it doesnt add up based on past history of MLB being drafted and where these guys are rated... Jack Has a better chance of being drafted high as an OLB then as a MLB...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: February 14, 2016 12:47PM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ACL and MCL for Jaylon Smith is a little scary.
> Myles Jack is interesting but also the meniscus is
> a little scary... Jack seems to be a little
> unknown where he will play in the NFL.. The guy
> looks more like a safety in the highlights I have
> seen then a true MLB. His cover skills and how he
> plays in the secondary so much were pretty crazy
> to see for a LB...
>
>
> Also Patrick Willis and Luke Kuechly were more
> solid prospects coming out of college and neither
> of them went as high as 8.. And they are probably
> the 2 highest drafted MLBs in the last 15 years or
> so.. So taking either of these guys with major
> injuries and not rated as high as Kuechly or
> Willis were, at 8, doesnt sound that solid to
> me... I am not a good enough scout to tell you yes
> or no on them, so dont get me wrong.. But it
> doesnt add up based on past history of MLB being
> drafted and where these guys are rated... Jack Has
> a better chance of being drafted high as an OLB
> then as a MLB...

***************************************************

Much will be determined depending on who Miami signs/doesn't sign from the team, along with who they pick up in FA.

Top need positions for Miami are LB, DE, CB, and OG.

If Miami cannot resign OV and Wake leaves, then Miami will probably have to go DE. If either or both return, then LB/CB are up there. OG can be filled in FA.

Best scenario for Miami's draft...trade back (no lower than 15) and grab the best available LB. But again, no OV or Wake, then DE may just be the most needed.

CB is needed, but if Miami has a strong front 7, then the CBs will be able to stay with their man a little longer, thus making their job easier.

Gonna be hard for Miami to trade back, tho.

Just have to wait and see.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: February 15, 2016 04:26AM

What MLB are you going to get at 15 to plug in and play 3 downs in game 1? I don't see much value at LB at that point in the draft. If we trade down, I would do it for the position you left out of your "top needs"... DT. That's not the only spot to target as there will be DE's as well. There will be several D-linemen to choose from in that range.

I am very leery of Ragland just based on the fact he was protected by two first round DT's. Not sure he is a 3 down player in the NFL.

I think the more we invest in DT, the easier it will be for our next MLB.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: February 15, 2016 06:10AM

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What MLB are you going to get at 15 to plug in and
> play 3 downs in game 1? I don't see much value at
> LB at that point in the draft. If we trade down, I
> would do it for the position you left out of your
> "top needs"... DT. That's not the only spot to
> target as there will be DE's as well. There will
> be several D-linemen to choose from in that
> range.
>
> I am very leery of Ragland just based on the fact
> he was protected by two first round DT's. Not sure
> he is a 3 down player in the NFL.
>
> I think the more we invest in DT, the easier it
> will be for our next MLB.


I want a stud MLB as much as anyone, I just dont see drafting one higher then any MLB has been drafted in the last 15 -20 years. Especially when both prospects are coming off major knee injuries as well as not rated as high at MLB as those that went later in the past... If either of them are truely going to be at the level of Kuechly or Willis then sure why not.. But that is a big if IMO...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: February 15, 2016 07:44AM

Who is not rated as high as past LB's? and by whom? Just curious to see how you are comparing them.

Ryan Shazier 15
CJ Mosley 17 (3-4 WILcool smiley
Luke Keuchley 9
Dont'a Hightower 25
Rolando McClain 8
Sean Weatherspoon 19
Aaron Curry 4 (4-3 WLcool smiley
Brian Cushing 15 (3-4 WILcool smiley
Keith Rivers 9 (4-3 WLcool smiley
Jerod Mayo 10

Some decent Alabama MLB's in that group. NE got two of them.

Aaron Curry and Keith Rivers were considered to be "can't miss" and the safest picks in their drafts....they were the two biggest flops as well.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: February 15, 2016 08:48AM

hope we take a Dline Smith or Jack in the first and SuaCravens in the second.

Where will Kevin Dodd go, he has looked as good as Lawson at times?

nick martin?

Kevin Hogan in 4-5

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: February 15, 2016 12:26PM

Aaron Curry, and Rolando Mcclain the 2 highest on that list could both be considered to be busts.. Although you could argue McClain is more of a dud then a bust... They are the only 2 that went as high or higher then you suggest us drafting a MLB at 8. And neither really worked out and were a reach..... If you read Curry's draft analysis it kind of reads similar to Myles Jacks... Not saying he is going to turn out that way, I read them both just now, and there were a lot of striking similarities in the descriptions..

Kuechly the guy who worked out and was drafted at 9 one spot behind where we pick this year according to NFL.com and had a 9.1 grade. Myles Jack a 7.5 and Jaylon Smith 7.1. And Kuechly wasnt coming off of a major knee injury like both of this years prospects... I am just concerned with drafting a MLB that high, coming off major injuries/currently injured. I would say that is unprecedented...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: February 16, 2016 04:14AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aaron Curry, and Rolando Mcclain the 2 highest on
> that list could both be considered to be busts..
> Although you could argue McClain is more of a dud
> then a bust...

I would disagree on McClain. His first few years in Oakland, they were probably the worst run franchise in the league. Combine that with his immaturity at age 25 and there were issues. He dominated when he got to Dallas. He had a slow start last year due to injury but he finally lived up to his potential in Dallas.

They are the only 2 that went as
> high or higher then you suggest us drafting a MLB
> at 8. And neither really worked out and were a
> reach.....

I don't see one having anything to do with the other other than they both play LB.

If you read Curry's draft analysis it
> kind of reads similar to Myles Jacks... Not saying
> he is going to turn out that way, I read them both
> just now, and there were a lot of striking
> similarities in the descriptions..
>
> Kuechly the guy who worked out and was drafted at
> 9 one spot behind where we pick this year
> according to NFL.com and had a 9.1 grade. Myles
> Jack a 7.5 and Jaylon Smith 7.1.

I see the NFL draft website has changed their rating scale where Keuchley was rated at 91 but now players have been graded with single digits. I assume these were either 1-100 or 1-10 values. I'm not real certain of how their grading system works.

In either case, each year the draft is relative. Many have Jack as a top 5 pick this year but in a great draft like 2011, he may have fallen to 25. You take the best that's available and you can't really compare them to previous drafts for the purpose of where you take them. Maybe this year only 4 players rank higher than Jack instead of 24 if he were drafted in 2011.

For instance, Laremy Tunsil is projected to be the 1st player drafted this year. He carries a 7.72 grade. That's comparible to Jack or Smith. It seems to be a fairly weak draft at the top, absent of real blue chippers. Joey Boas only carries a 6.76 grade.

Trent Richardson carried a 93.5 on the old grading system. Does that convert to 9.35? Something is amiss here. Ryan Tannehill had an 84.

Jalen Ramsey is graded at 6.83.

This is also the ranking of only one web site. A lot of the top rated players are graded by Lance Zierlein and the lower players are by several other people. I'm sure Lance's rankings vary quite a bit from Mayock or Jeremiah.

And Kuechly wasnt
> coming off of a major knee injury like both of
> this years prospects... I am just concerned with
> drafting a MLB that high, coming off major
> injuries/currently injured. I would say that is
> unprecedented...

I understand the concern but a knee injury isn't as doom and gloom as it was 10-20 years ago. Look at Todd Gurley.

I would not worry as much about Jack as I would Smith just for the fact that Smith may not even play this year. The grades will depend on how soon they will be ready.

I just don't think I would draft Ashawn Robsinson, who carries a 6.59 over Jack (7.5) who is higher ranked.

When you look at who is likely to be available at 8, it's a tough call. What if it falls like this....???

1 Ten: Laremy Tunsil
2 Cle: Jared Goff
3 SD: Jalen Rmasey
4 Dal: Joey Bosa
5 Jax: Ronnie Stanley
6 Bal: Vernon Hargreaves
7 SF: Carson Wentz
8 Mia: ???



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2016 05:47AM by JoeFootball.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: February 16, 2016 01:41PM

I agree the injuries are not the end of the world. However Gurley was an extremely special player IMO... I don't think these LB's are on that level... But I am obviously not an expert scout.. Nothing would make me happier then to add, a stud MLB to our roster.. We have needed one for a long while... I just don't want to reach out of need for an injured player,that people aren't really sure where they fit... Myles Jack has some question about his shedding blocks and playing in the box.. A stud MLB needs to excel at that.. His speed and covers skills are off the chart from what I have seen and read... Jaylon Smith doesn't seem like he will be a true MLB in the NFL from what I have read.. So those questions make me nervous as well.. Again I am not an expert scout by any means, just reading up on these guys and watching some highlights... So combining those questions with the injuries and I have serious apprehensions with a top ten pick... But it sounds like both guys could help at some LB position either way.. So it doesn't sound like a total loss.. It never hurts to have LBs that stand out in covering guys, which from what I have read and seen both these guys excel at doing.

I agree if both CB's are gone, I am not sure what we do... Probably draft a pass rusher as you suggested or trade back a bit a grab another early pick. I guess it all depends on who else we have targeted or ranked high that we want... We need a MLB, CB, guard, pass rushers, DT... We have plenty of needs, so if we get an extra pick to address multiple needs(3) in the first couple rounds, that isnt a bad scenario..

ps- Rolando McClain's stats are no better in Dallas then they were in Oakland... And they surely don't live up to a top ten pick by any means... When you are drafted top ten and get traded for a 6th and 7th, while your stats stay the same, that would be a dud in my book... All that said he is probably better then anything we have at MLB...sad but true....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2016 02:45PM by Crowder52.

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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: February 16, 2016 04:04PM


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Re: Mayock Top 5...............
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 06, 2018 06:15PM


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