I like the 3 undrafted LB's.... should be interesting

it is sad it took 3 years for DC to determine it is best if the defense just goes out and plays fast instead of having to think first all the time.

No matter what, Suh is going to make the LB group look much better then they did last year... So it is hard to say, if it is the young guys, or the coaching, or just the fact you have a guy like Suh in the middle, dominating, taking the pressure off the LBs.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Suh demands a double team ON EVERY PLAY. Wake gets double teamed on every passing play. We also have a new guy Jordan Phillips who is a big body NT type who will probably need double teamed as well or will be freed up to make plays (along with Vernon).

Opposing teams will struggle to even get a hat on our LB's.

Looks like the FO is not satisfied with our current group of DT's. They made an offer to CJ Mosley who played most of last year next to Suh in Detroit. He replaced Nick Fairley when he got hurt and will be 32 in August.

I can't imagine they are set to release Mitchell. Not thrilled with Anthony Johnson or AJ Francis?

Suh and Jordan Phillips are a lock unless they are concerned about JP's back. I certainly hope not.

Well...they signed him but supposedly Mitchell and Suh are still the starters.

We likely keep Suh, Mitchell, Mosley, Phillips....maybe one more if they decide they want to be fresher in second half of the season. A. Johnson ? That's a lot of DT's...

5-2 defense anyone? COuld be running it more this year vs teams like Buffalo, NYJ...

I wonder if they ease up on Wakes snaps? He was not good vs the run last year. Shelby was the best DE vs run followed by Vernon.

Strongest Base D

SDE Shelby
DT Suh
DT Mosley/Phillips?
WDE Vernon

Nickel

SDE Wake
DT Suh
DT Mitchell
WDE Vernon

5-2

SDE Shelby
DT Suh
DT Mitchell
DT Phillips
WDE Vernon


Time to add a LG.

We were 8 mil under the cap before Mosley signing.

Sheppard might be the lb that emerges behind Suh. He is a true 4-3 mlb that was TRADED from BUF to IND. He was looking damn good in BUF
before being traded for Jerry Hughes. He went from the 4-3 to the 3-4 in IND and did not fit that scheme well. I am looking forward to seeing what he brings in the summer and preseason. I really would like to see him take that spot from Misi.

I don't see it. He was below average in Buffalo behind two stud DT's (Dareus & K. Williams) AND Mario Williams. He's not even as good as Misi. It's not impossible but improbable. Not good vs the run.

I'd bet there is a better chance that one of the younger players takes a spot rather than a guy who has already been in the league 4 years and never separated himself. The guy who replaced him in Buffalo was twice the player as a rookie and immediately stood out as a stud player.

Indy got screwed on that deal.

He was not below average in BUF you are off on this guy just as you wrote that he was cut and not traded. I remember reading in 2011/12? he was central in a 4 game streak where BUF held their opponents to 90 yards rushing. IND screwed themselves by trading for a player who did not fit their D just like we shot ourselves in the foot w/ Ellerbe. 4 years in the league and never separated himself he has accomplished just as much as Misi's done in his 6 seasons. 220 tackles vs 260. As I mentioned Im hoping this guy comes in and claims the mlb spot for us.

People we need jobs.

Cut, sacrificed, traded, given away, whatever...

Misi has played 5 seasons, not 6. That's 1 more than Sheppard.

Buffalo never had a 4 game win streak in 11 or 12. They did win the first 3 games in 2011 against KC, Oak and NE but Sheppard had 1 solo tackle and 3 assisted in those 3 games combined! AS A MIDDLE LINEBACKER.

Besides...That's your lone judgement/comparison? tackle numbers?

Misi has played several different positions. Drafted as a pass rusher he played 43 MLB, 43 SLB, 34 OLB. You seriously cannot expect to compare tackle numbers from a ONE YEAR MLB to a 3-4 year MLB.

2010 3-4 SOLB
2011 3-4 WOLB
2012 4-3 SLB (two down player)
2013 4-3 SLB (two down player)
2014 4-3 MLB (played with knee and ankle injury all year)

Sheppard was a college ILB who played his entire pro career at ILB..

But if you just want to compare apples to oranges, Misi has 12 career sacks, KS has 3. Misi has 10 pass defenses, KS has 3. Misi has 2 forced fumbles, KS has 1.

So Misi can play any LB spot there is in a 3-4 or 4-3 and also play 4-3 DE. Sheppard can play strong or middle LB in a 4-3. That should tell you who is the better athlete.

Misi played injured behind a group of aging and declining defensive tackles. Sheppard, while in Buffalo played behind Kyle Williams and Marcel Dareus and they still deemed him expendable after spending a 3rd round pick on him.

Misi got his rookie contract extended. Sheppard was traded and cut in a 4 year career.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2015 05:31AM by JoeFootball.

Dude you blow a lot of hot air take time to read. No where will you find where I said BUF had a 4 year win streak. No where did I say Misi was not more athletic than Sheppard, he is. My point is IMHO Sheppard is a better 4-3 mlb than Misi and I am hoping that he comes into the season and take that he job.

'Misi played injured behind a group of aging and declining defensive tackles'. The usual excuses Misi shows no sign of being an exceptional LB. If he is so athletic why is he only a 2 down backer. The mlb is the one who is usually a 2 down player. Misi is an overrated underperforming lb who was not worth a 2nd rnd pick. He should have been shown the door w/ wheeler and Ellerbe who always had considerably more tackles than him playing behind the same aging and declining tackles.

Any takers that we will lead the NFL in rush defense this year?

Detroit was number 1 last year and we have BOTH their starting DT's.

By comparison....on the outside

SDE: Cameron Wake to Jason Jones...No comparison. Wake is much better.

WDE Olivier Vernon to Ziggy Ansah...Comparable with an edge to Ansah...but over the last two years, Ziggy has 12.5 sacks, OV has 18.

At LB the only upgrade over Miami is DeAndre Levy (sort of) but Jenkins is primed to have a better year. He is more experienced and will get 1st team snaps for the first time in the off season. He will play with stud DT's in front of him and two excellent DE's. I believe the WLB is the key spot for the Lions and Dolphins schemes. It is designed for the WLB to be free to run sideline to sideline.

I am also predicting 20 sacks for Cam Wake in 2015. Probably 14 for Vernon (and a fat new contract).

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dude you blow a lot of hot air take time to read.
> No where will you find where I said BUF had a 4
> year win streak.
No where did I say Misi was not
> more athletic than Sheppard, he is. My point is
> IMHO Sheppard is a better 4-3 mlb than Misi and I
> am hoping that he comes into the season and take
> that he job.
>
> 'Misi played injured behind a group of aging and
> declining defensive tackles'. The usual excuses
> Misi shows no sign of being an exceptional LB. If
> he is so athletic why is he only a 2 down backer.
> The mlb is the one who is usually a 2 down player.
> Misi is an overrated underperforming lb who was
> not worth a 2nd rnd pick. He should have been
> shown the door w/ wheeler and Ellerbe who always
> had considerably more tackles than him playing
> behind the same aging and declining tackles.

Who said Misi was exceptional?

I said the same thing about cutting him....that he should be released b/c he makes too much money for what he does. Check the time line.

He is still better than Sheppard.

Besides...this is Florida. All we have is hot air.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/2015 06:35AM by JoeFootball.

Time will tell. You can have Misi my stash is on Sheppard


Sheppard a 3rd round pick was traded for J Hughs who was a 1st round pick. That shows what his value was at the time. The Bills had several mlb that matured at the same time making Sheppard tradeable. That was the story behind that trade. I wonder how much warm light beer we could get for our former 2nd rounder. I think the phins management sees the value in Sheppard and that's why he is in our camp.

Hughes was also considered a bust at the time who started 8 games in 3 years and had 5 sacks.

He was not considered a bust by nfl front men who knew the Colts were wasting him in their passive defensive scheme. Bills got him and in 2 seasons got more out of him than his 3 in IND 19.5 sacks vs 5, 5 FF vs 0.

You can take the last word on this ...

I was a big Hughes fan when he came out of college. Thought he had the potential to be an impact pass rusher.

Thought we might grab him late in the first but we took Odrick instead.

The passive Colts scheme with Robert Mathis and his 48 sacks from 2010-2013? Dwight Freeney? yeah...they really hold their DE's back.

Sometimes guys grow up and start working when they realize they are expendable.

I don't think that's Sheppard's issue but I hope you are right about him.

I keep seeing pics of Tripp and he is jacked. He is my candidate. All he needed last year was some strength and experience....and as everyone needs....to stay healthy.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sheppard might be the lb that emerges behind Suh.
> He is a true 4-3 mlb that was TRADED from BUF to
> IND. He was looking damn good in BUF
> before being traded for Jerry Hughes. He went from
> the 4-3 to the 3-4 in IND and did not fit that
> scheme well. I am looking forward to seeing what
> he brings in the summer and preseason. I really
> would like to see him take that spot from Misi.

@OmarKelly

Kevin Coyle said all LBers are crosstrained to learn two spots. Kelvin Sheppard is 2nd name he mentioned. "He's really stepped up his game"

Also said Shep, Misi and Jenkins likely starters at LB.

I think they were soft mentally, in that some of those losses seem to really take the wind out of their sail.. Also injuries made them soft. The run defense went soft as the season went on... It also seems like they gave up the last few games of both of the last few seasons.. That specifically has to be on the head coach IMO.. But I also think they lost faith in Coyles system and play calling at times... I think they lost faith in the coaches in general at times... Which all contributed to them being soft... Some coaches inspire, I don't think we had too many of them on our squad the last couple years... Even Philbin likes to say, these guys are professionals, they know what is expected of them... That attitude doesn't exactly inspire guys, when you aren't winning... When you are winning, sure that works, but when you aren't, not so much... Hence the losing really hurt us and lead to more losing...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I watched the Vikings game last night. There were stretches when we were getting killed in the run game by a rag tag group of replacement Vikings lineman and a no name RB. I saw Odrick getting blown off the ball time and time again by a single blocker. I mean washed out 5 yards away while they ran right at him.

That DT unit last year just did not work. We had no one outside of Starks who commanded a double team. The year before we had two with Starks and Soliai. That will not be the case in 2015.

Look back to 2011 (pre-Coyle). He gets a lot of heat but that year we had younger (27) Soliai & Starks to go along with Kendall Langford, Jared Odrick and Tony McDaniel. We had (4) 3-4 DE's playing 3-4 DE. That's a much better group than anything we've had since.

Starks will be playing next to Danny Shelton this season as a 3-4 DE. It will be interesting to see how he performs.

The only confusing part is that in both of the last 2 seasons early on or close to midway, we had solid run defense. And then it all just fell apart.. Maybe are guys were beat up/playing injured later in the season?

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Common theory is that aging players wear down at end of season. When Starks is your best D-lineman and 30....Injuries also a factor but same principle. Slower recovery time for older players.

We were top 5 until week 12 last season. Then the bottom fell out.