You guys who think this is a small penalty are nuts. When has a team ever been fined so much or lost so many draft picks plus had its best player suspended so long? Other than bounty gate never

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

check the first one again, Holic. The link now says webpage has vanished.

Does anyone know off the top of their head whether the Wells report covered more than just the allegation from the Colts game? AJ Feeley basically said funny biz has been going on for 11 yrs @ Foxborough vis-a-vis Brady's balls. If that's true, the 4-game punishment seems INCREDIBLY light. It puts him in the McGwire/Sosa/Bonds category for me when thinking through the greatest sluggers in the history of baseball...huge, indelible asterisk in front of, after and directly on top of ANY achievement.

tsstamper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Does anyone know off the top of their head whether
> the Wells report covered more than just the
> allegation from the Colts game? AJ Feeley
> basically said funny biz has been going on for 11
> yrs @ Foxborough vis-a-vis Brady's balls. If
> that's true, the 4-game punishment seems
> INCREDIBLY light. It puts him in the
> McGwire/Sosa/Bonds category for me when thinking
> through the greatest sluggers in the history of
> baseball...huge, indelible asterisk in front of,
> after and directly on top of ANY achievement.

It focused on the colts game but the text messages from May 2014 between the patriot employees suggests that it was going before last season.

808phan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> You do realize Goodell works for the owners
> right?
>
>
>
> Yes, I know. And if I were an NFL team owner I
> would let it be known that another owner having a
> personal friendship with the NFL Commissioner is
> inappropriate, and that it could compromise a
> working relationship that could lead to
> favoritism. And being a billionaire myself as
> well, I would care less if the other owner were
> pissed at me for saying something.
>
> Consider this dolph...If I were buddy buddy with
> my commanding officer, I would be in deep shit for
> fraternization - And my C.O. would be in deep shit
> as well.
>
> I really don't know why there isn't a team owner
> out there with enough balls to say something...the
> personal friendship between Kraft & Goodell isn't
> a secret. Perhaps they all have total confidence
> and don't give a shit.

I understand it looks funny, but I was simply pointing out that fact because you said he should step down because it was unethical. If Kraft was the only one paying his salary or if the players paid him than I would say yes, very unethical, but all 32 owners pay his salary so I see nothing "unethical" about it, if the other 31 owners felt that way I'm sure they'd deal with it.

As far as you comparing it to your experience in the military, I made the mistake often during the strike a few years ago of trying to compare their labor strife to my own personal experiences, the dynamics of the NFL hierarchy is not like any of our jobs or working conditions, it's not a fair comparison. Goodell works for the owners, not the NFLPA, I't's a very weird dynamic when he has to sanction an owner via fines or draft picks and I'm sure other owners weigh in on it somehow. I actually think him fining the Pats a million dollars was a ballsy move, that's the most a team has ever been fined so I'm not real sure how that could be viewed as unethical?

Actually the Pats come out about 900k ahead since now they don't have to pay Brady 1.9 mil of his salary.

All the talk now is how the relationship between Goodell and Kraft is pretty much severed. Goodell isn't risking his 30 mil a year gig to show favoritism. I think the results speak for themselves. I'd hate (love) to see the penalty if they weren't friends. Goodell has also hung out with Jerry Jones and other owners so...

A 4 game suspension, or a 2 game suspension, it doesn't really matter to me any longer. Here's why.

Tom Brady is now in the same category as your Lance Armstrongs, and your Sammy Sosa's. He is now and forever remembered as a CHEATER. Yes, having him out for the most games possible will impact us in a beneficial way this season. However, the more important thing here is legacy, history, and the way Tom Brady and the "Patriot Dynasty" will be remembered.

This mess has ruined the Patriots legacy in many, many people's eyes. Pundits, news writers, columinists, and fans alike will now have that little reminder in the back of their minds when they hear in a conversation or talk about Brady, "Deflate Gate."

This marks a very sweet day for Dolphins fans. Spygate, while a major deal, didn't put the black eye that this did on the Pats. This puts their golden boy, the man beyond reproach, down where he belongs. Amongst the cheating swine.

GO PHINS!

And yet, he will be remembered by most as one of the top two QB's ever, (him and Montana) he will be a first ballot hall of fame inductee, he has been to more superbowls than any QB ever, and is tied for the most superbowl wins...a record that he has a better than average chance to take all for his self...ugh!

Not sure this really effects him long term...even though it should.

the pats are embarrassing themselves with that website. when stuck in a hole don't keep digging.

Can't wait for Goodell to hear the appeal and ask Brady to turn over his phone.

So if the Pats organization did nothing wrong, why did they suspend McNally and Jastremski without pay? They are going to great lengths to prove their innocence yet they suspended two employees.

Those two will be lawyering up soon.

Goodell appointed himself the hear the appeal. ROTFL

brady is entering a-rod territory.

deny, deny, deny, deny.

phone turned over

spilling his guts in a tearful interview with oprah.

This coverage is killing me. Do they really need 24 hour coverage on NFLN? It's friggin ridiculous! Saying the same things over and over....there are 31 other teams. They act like it's a breaking OJ story or something.

I don't mind covering it but he is now 100% of the content. Get on with it. This will drag on until the start of the season for the appeal. I'm sick of it.

NFL is fraud for not banning for life both Brady and Belichick, for this second cheating offense in a decade.

I see a lot of commentary how deflating did jot make them a great team. The hell it didn't! Let's remember, they won 3 in 4 years before getting caught in spygate, 4 SB appearances in 6-7 years. Then, after, they became a decade-long perennial playoff fodder.

With deflating, they created unprecedented low turnover rate, impossible to achieve, they beat the odds by an impossible margin. And this has been going on for over a decade.

This game is about winning, and turnover battle is tops if not #1 determinant of winning success. They went into every game in Foxborough with a rigged illegal clear advantage. Wonder why they were almost impossible to beat at home? They cheated every game in the last decade to have impossible to overcome turnover differential.

Brady's legacy is not that of a great passer, or a flashy athlete, but that of a winner, and his whole career is based on winning by cheating, spygate, deflating, or both.

To create this unfair advantage, Brady bribed employees. And then he lied about not knowing those employees, hiding the facts from investigators. This was intentional, illegal, and ran for over a decade.

Are they getting into a HOF? Heck no! Who can stand up with a straight face and say they did it the right way like competitors do, fairly, deciding it on the football field? No one!
Good players and coaches lost jobs, careers, left in the dust of history as they played fairly. Brady and Belidhick will bask in glory of winning built on cheating? Heck nol

They are an embarrassment to NFL, to sports, to human kind, and should have been banned for life. Football does not need them, nor does it need their cheating ways. NFL lost face with this weak punishment.

thegreathoo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NFL is fraud for not banning for life both Brady
> and Belichick, for this second cheating offense in
> a decade.
>
> I see a lot of commentary how deflating did jot
> make them a great team. The hell it didn't! Let's
> remember, they won 3 in 4 years before getting
> caught in spygate, 4 SB appearances in 6-7 years.
> Then, after, they became a decade-long perennial
> playoff fodder.
>
> With deflating, they created unprecedented low
> turnover rate, impossible to achieve, they beat
> the odds by an impossible margin. And this has
> been going on for over a decade.
>
> This game is about winning, and turnover battle is
> tops if not #1 determinant of winning success.
> They went into every game in Foxborough with a
> rigged illegal clear advantage. Wonder why they
> were almost impossible to beat at home? They
> cheated every game in the last decade to have
> impossible to overcome turnover differential.
>
> Brady's legacy is not that of a great passer, or a
> flashy athlete, but that of a winner, and his
> whole career is based on winning by cheating,
> spygate, deflating, or both.
>
> To create this unfair advantage, Brady bribed
> employees. And then he lied about not knowing
> those employees, hiding the facts from
> investigators. This was intentional, illegal, and
> ran for over a decade.
>
> Are they getting into a HOF? Heck no! Who can
> stand up with a straight face and say they did it
> the right way like competitors do, fairly,
> deciding it on the football field? No one!
> Good players and coaches lost jobs, careers, left
> in the dust of history as they played fairly.
> Brady and Belidhick will bask in glory of winning
> built on cheating? Heck nol
>
> They are an embarrassment to NFL, to sports, to
> human kind, and should have been banned for life.
> Football does not need them, nor does it need
> their cheating ways. NFL lost face with this weak
> punishment.


Interesting post.

My thoughts...

* Brady isn't on the hook for Spygate. He certainly benefited from it by having a defense play well above its level, but that is on the coaches...entirely.

* Brady didn't turn over his phone records because it would have implicated Belichick because...

* This was never about Brady getting a a better grip. That was just an ancillary benefit. It goes back to 2007 when the Pats stopped fumbling the ball. As you pointed out, turnovers decide games. Its my opinion that Belichick was looking for an edge to reduce turnovers. He's said before that they practice with all types of balls to prepare for weather and circumstances. I believe that he realized that if they took a little pressure out of the ball it reduced their likelihood of fumbling. I think he coordinated with Brady to make sure it wasn't going to have a negative impact on him and they made sure to keep it at a level he liked so as not to negatively impact the passing game. As it turned out, Brady liked it that way as well.

Its my opinion that Brady kept the phone to himself so that Belichick wouldn't get a MAJOR suspension or ban.


* If I were Goodell I'd ask Brady at the appeal if he has new evidence to present. If the answer isn't yes, and part of that evidence isn't the phone, then that meeting would last about 30 seconds.



** On a side note, I've always felt that if you appeal a suspension and ask them to reconsider the judgement then the penalty shouldn't just be upheld, or decreased. Increasing it should be on the table as well.

you guys are nuts. I hate the pats as much as the next guy but deflating a football by less than a psi or so is just not that big a deal.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you guys are nuts. I hate the pats as much as the
> next guy but deflating a football by less than a
> psi or so is just not that big a deal.


Trying to circumvent the rules of the game by messing with footballs after they were tested by an official is actually a big deal... It messes with the integrity of the game, which is a big deal. The fact Brady was the main guy lobbying in 2007 for the rule change which would allow visiting teams to bring and use their own balls at games, and then using that rule change to cheat is even worse.. The fact that their fumbles miraculously went off the charts down after this rule was passed also shows they were able to gain an advantage from cheating....

If the Patriots are cheating with this which they got caught for, think how much other crap they are probably doing to cheat and illegally gain an advantage but have yet to be caught for... Add that to the fact they were already in the dog house from Spygate another cheating violation, Hanging them high and set an example.. Repeat offenders should not be given the benefit of the doubt. They should be punished harsher then a first time offender...

Plus what Kraft said before the report came out that he expected a full apology from the NFL regarding this matter, just makes it even worse... Kraft and Patriots were publicly playing the victims before the report came out.. And then when the reports comes out, saying they were in the wrong, they want to play victims again because their poor punishment is too harsh... What is the old saying, don't do the crime if you don't want the time... F*ck the Patriots and their whiny cheating ass owner, coach and QB......

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2015 05:09AM by Crowder52.

It's not the act. It's the principle. Stealing a candy bar is not a big deal. It's the act of stealing. Balls were taken and tampered with AFTER the official inspection. AND then you have the failure to cooperate AND lying about it.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you guys are nuts. I hate the pats as much as the
> next guy but deflating a football by less than a
> psi or so is just not that big a deal.


I agree. It's not a big deal, at least for Brady. He throws the ball just fine either way. The issue they are getting spanked for is the conspiracy to circumvent the process.

It is a big deal when it comes to fumbling.

Go check out the statistical analysis of the Patriots propensity for putting the ball on the ground before and after 2007, the year the new rule allowing teams to prepare game balls went into effect.

The numbers couldn't be more telling.