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          New WR...
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This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Current Page: 2 of 3
Re: New WR...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: March 13, 2015 09:05AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
so we are free and clean on
> him...

Except for the 4.2 mil we carry in dead cap space.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: March 13, 2015 09:07AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It was brilliant for the simple fact we got rid of
> Ellerbe and his contract...

I agree.

We probably could have gotten Stills for a 4th straight up. I'd bet that the inclusion of Ellerbe's disastrous contract up the cost on our side.

Overall, I like the deal a lot. We can get back a 3rd by trading down 4 or 5 spots in the first if we want it and no WR we draft in the 3rd is going to be as ready as Stills is to step in and produce day one.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: March 13, 2015 09:07AM

Saints also to sign CJ Spiller

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: March 13, 2015 09:13AM

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There were better players picked after each of
> those guys. This is the first off season move that
> I don't like but the potential is there to make me
> end up liking it.
>
> Does anyone have any idea/estimate of what our cap
> looks like now?


I think we had between 6 mil before the trade that freed up 5 mil more.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: March 13, 2015 09:19AM

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> so we are free and clean on
> > him...
>
> Except for the 4.2 mil we carry in dead cap space.


Why do we carry dead space? I thought there was offset in the original Ellerbe contract...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: March 13, 2015 09:23AM

Pro rated signing bonus. 1.4 mil per spread year over 5 years. We paid 2 on the cap....still owe for 3 years. He was already paid the money but we spread it over 5 years on cap.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: March 13, 2015 09:30AM

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mizzou15 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There were better players picked after each of
> > those guys. This is the first off season move
> that
> > I don't like but the potential is there to make
> me
> > end up liking it.
> >
> > Does anyone have any idea/estimate of what our
> cap
> > looks like now?
>
>
> I think we had between 6 mil before the trade that
> freed up 5 mil more.


Cool, thanks

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: March 13, 2015 09:33AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JoeFootball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crowder52 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > so we are free and clean on
> > > him...
> >
> > Except for the 4.2 mil we carry in dead cap
> space.
>
>
> Why do we carry dead space? I thought there was
> offset in the original Ellerbe contract...



The Offset was for the additional $3m that was guaranteed this year by his ending last year on the injured list.

If we cut him we would have had an additional $3m in dead cap space, but could have recovered all or part of that based on his signing with another club.

The Saints now assume the risk on that $3m, We still eat the remainder of his prorated signing bonus.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: March 13, 2015 09:40AM


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Re: New WR...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: March 13, 2015 09:45AM

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On Twitter:
> Ian Wharton @NFLFilmStudy · 32m 32 minutes ago
> Stills isn’t as fast as Mike Wallace, but he is
> just as dangerous deep. He tracks the ball and
> fights for it much better than Wallace
>
>
>
> If Miami re-signs Clay, Stills is clearly the
> Wallace replacement now. They aren't going to sink
> over $12M into the TE position and be dependent on
> 3 WR sets. If they re-sign Clay, the offense will
> be a lot like the Patriots did with Gronkowski and
> Hernandez. That is, 2 TE as the base formation,
> but with the flexibility to split both out, split
> one out, use one as an H Back, or put both
> inline.
>
> I think this move means Wallace is gone,
> regardless. But if they do re-sign Clay, I think
> it's a 100% chance Wallace is gone.


Could be Mark but Landry is purely a slot WR. Putting him outside opposite Stills isn't an improvement it actually devalues him as a player. Besides, Cameron is only here for one year. So I don't know if I'm buying the speculation that we are moving to a two TE offense. I think we will be better suited this year to have the ability to to go with either lineup as matchups dictate.

How do you defend Wallace, Stills, Cameron, Landry/Clay in the slot and ...oh I don't know...lets say Todd Gurley at RB?????

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: March 13, 2015 10:41AM


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Re: New WR...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: March 13, 2015 11:01AM

and...

Landry: Short game with ability to make plays, score red zone points, convert 3rd downs. great hands...chain mover.

Clay: Short to intermediate game with ability to make plays, score red zone points, convert 3rd downs. mis-match nightmare.

Cameron: Intermediate to long game with ability to make plays, score red zone points, convert 3rd downs. Big target in red zone. mis-match nightmare.

Stills: intermediate to long game with better ability to track and fight for deep passes. Opens up the field, pulls safety over the top.

What else do you need?

Maybe the perfect RB to run the read-option....ala Marshawn Lynch type RB. Shifty, elusive, power runner that can go straight ahead or get outside....Maybe Melvin Gordan???

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: March 13, 2015 12:25PM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ellerbe was like throwing in a box of jock straps,
> but a 3rd? Good/bad?

***************************************************

Should have been a 4th or later.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: March 13, 2015 12:28PM

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dolfanmark Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > On Twitter:
> > Ian Wharton @NFLFilmStudy · 32m 32 minutes
> ago
> > Stills isn’t as fast as Mike Wallace, but he
> is
> > just as dangerous deep. He tracks the ball and
> > fights for it much better than Wallace
> >
> >
> >
> > If Miami re-signs Clay, Stills is clearly the
> > Wallace replacement now. They aren't going to
> sink
> > over $12M into the TE position and be dependent
> on
> > 3 WR sets. If they re-sign Clay, the offense
> will
> > be a lot like the Patriots did with Gronkowski
> and
> > Hernandez. That is, 2 TE as the base formation,
> > but with the flexibility to split both out,
> split
> > one out, use one as an H Back, or put both
> > inline.
> >
> > I think this move means Wallace is gone,
> > regardless. But if they do re-sign Clay, I
> think
> > it's a 100% chance Wallace is gone.
>
>
> Could be Mark but Landry is purely a slot WR.
> Putting him outside opposite Stills isn't an
> improvement it actually devalues him as a player.
> Besides, Cameron is only here for one year. So
> I don't know if I'm buying the speculation that we
> are moving to a two TE offense. I think we will
> be better suited this year to have the ability to
> to go with either lineup as matchups dictate.
>
> How do you defend Wallace, Stills, Cameron,
> Landry/Clay in the slot and ...oh I don't
> know...lets say Todd Gurley at RB?????

I don't know if I would say that Landry is purely a slot WR. Nolan Narwocki, who does the best draft scouting reports IMO, said he was capable of playing the Z or slot. Check his draft profile of Landry on NFL.com. Landry may not have great long speed, but he's not undersized. And they have said that Landry was approaching this offseason with the intent to prove he could play outside.

That said, think about how New England used the two TE offense. They used Brandon Lloyd outside, with Gronkowski or Hernandez outside, with Welker in the slot. Miami could do the same with Cameron outside and Landry in the slot, if they chose.

But just look at the investment at TE if Clay is re-signed. Cameron is getting $5M this season, with another $2.5M available in incentives for games played. Clay is looking at $7+M. They aren't spending that kind of money at TE to use 3 WR sets and 1 TE.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: March 13, 2015 12:29PM

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I love this trade.
>
> NFL ready starting speed WR for a 3rd at NFL
> minimum salary for 2 years.
>
> Also get out from under the Ellerbe contract...
>
> What's not to like?
>
> Next call is to the raiders..."you guys have a ton
> of cap space you have to spend and are striking
> out in free agency...we'll give you Wallace for a
> 2nd?"

********************************************************

Well, the Raiders do like speed and they do have plenty of money to spend.

I would also guess they are desperate to field a winner, and Wallace can help them do that.

No less than a 2nd rounder, tho, no matter how much money Miami saves.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: March 13, 2015 02:02PM

Mike Wallace texted teammates saying he'd been on phone with Minny GM Rick Spielman, HC Mike Zimmer, & he was likely headed to Vikes

From Armando's twitter

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: March 13, 2015 02:09PM


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Re: New WR...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: March 13, 2015 02:21PM

Wallace and a 7th to Minny for a 5th???


Should have just kept him...boooo

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: March 14, 2015 06:01AM

can someone tell me the cap benefit of trading a guy vs cutting him?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: March 14, 2015 06:16AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> can someone tell me the cap benefit of trading a
> guy vs cutting him?


Each contract is different.

There is no benefit when it comes to upfront money you've already paid out. Whatever you had prorated over the remaining years becomes dead money this year once you cut or trade the guy. If its a June 1st cut then its spread over two years.


Ellerbe's situation was different. He had the prorated money to be accounted for like most contracts, but due to his injury status he had $3m of this years salary guaranteed (with offsets). If we cut him, we eat that but if we trade him, that $3m is the responsibility of the team that acquired him and his current contract.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: March 14, 2015 06:26AM

Since both are gone, does anyone know if we absorb all the dead money this year, or will it linger for the length of the original contract?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: New WR...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: March 14, 2015 06:32AM

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > dolfanmark Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > On Twitter:
> > > Ian Wharton @NFLFilmStudy · 32m 32 minutes
> > ago
> > > Stills isn’t as fast as Mike Wallace, but
> he
> > is
> > > just as dangerous deep. He tracks the ball
> and
> > > fights for it much better than Wallace
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If Miami re-signs Clay, Stills is clearly the
> > > Wallace replacement now. They aren't going to
> > sink
> > > over $12M into the TE position and be
> dependent
> > on
> > > 3 WR sets. If they re-sign Clay, the offense
> > will
> > > be a lot like the Patriots did with
> Gronkowski
> > and
> > > Hernandez. That is, 2 TE as the base
> formation,
> > > but with the flexibility to split both out,
> > split
> > > one out, use one as an H Back, or put both
> > > inline.
> > >
> > > I think this move means Wallace is gone,
> > > regardless. But if they do re-sign Clay, I
> > think
> > > it's a 100% chance Wallace is gone.
> >
> >
> > Could be Mark but Landry is purely a slot WR.
> > Putting him outside opposite Stills isn't an
> > improvement it actually devalues him as a
> player.
> > Besides, Cameron is only here for one year.
> So
> > I don't know if I'm buying the speculation that
> we
> > are moving to a two TE offense. I think we
> will
> > be better suited this year to have the ability
> to
> > to go with either lineup as matchups dictate.
> >
> > How do you defend Wallace, Stills, Cameron,
> > Landry/Clay in the slot and ...oh I don't
> > know...lets say Todd Gurley at RB?????
>
> I don't know if I would say that Landry is purely
> a slot WR. Nolan Narwocki, who does the best draft
> scouting reports IMO, said he was capable of
> playing the Z or slot. Check his draft profile of
> Landry on NFL.com. Landry may not have great long
> speed, but he's not undersized. And they have said
> that Landry was approaching this offseason with
> the intent to prove he could play outside.
>
> That said, think about how New England used the
> two TE offense. They used Brandon Lloyd outside,
> with Gronkowski or Hernandez outside, with Welker
> in the slot. Miami could do the same with Cameron
> outside and Landry in the slot, if they chose.
>
> But just look at the investment at TE if Clay is
> re-signed. Cameron is getting $5M this season,
> with another $2.5M available in incentives for
> games played. Clay is looking at $7+M. They aren't
> spending that kind of money at TE to use 3 WR sets
> and 1 TE.


I'm not saying that he's purely a slot receiver. I'm saying its his best position. He's an impact player in the slot. He's a JAG outside, at least at this point in his career.

I think moving him outside devalues his impact on the team. I'd much prefer to have him operate in the slot 80% of the time and have another speed guy outside (Wallace), but that's just me.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: March 14, 2015 06:36AM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since both are gone, does anyone know if we absorb
> all the dead money this year, or will it linger
> for the length of the original contract?


I'd imagine that since they were traded we have to eat it this year. Frankly, I'd rather do that anyway. Next year we have to pay Suh 28M, RT 15m, and we need to re-sign Pouncey.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: March 14, 2015 09:02AM


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Re: New WR...
Posted by: jlyell13 ()
Date: March 14, 2015 11:35AM

Stills will make Wallace an afterthought and a lot cheaper. We have $20M cap room

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: March 14, 2015 02:55PM

THE Truth Wrote:

> I'm not saying that he's purely a slot receiver.
> I'm saying its his best position. He's an impact
> player in the slot. He's a JAG outside, at least
> at this point in his career.
>

How do we know he's a JAG at the Z? Is there enough evidence to make that judgement yet?

Landry had 63 catches on 78 targets from the slot this year. That means he had 21 catches on 27 targets when not in the slot. I don't know the breakdown of those 27 targets, because some may have come with him in the backfield, I think. But I am not ready to say he can't be a good flanker.

It depends on what happens with Clay. The fact that they are so intent on re-signing him makes me think they really want to change the way the offense runs. And if they do, I think Landry will still see a lot of his time in the slot, with Cameron Jordan or Clay split out wide. If they do keep Clay, the offense will be two TE most of the time. And the need for a prominent 3rd WR is diminished. And Landry will get a lot of looks at the Z position when the two TEs are inline, or one is inline and one is in the h-back position.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: March 14, 2015 03:14PM

Cameron is not even really a TE....he is just a receiver...sort of like Jimmy Graham.

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: March 14, 2015 03:27PM


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Re: New WR...
Posted by: JoeFootball ()
Date: October 29, 2015 07:54AM

So far this year...

Mike Wallace 26/292/1 TD (#1 WR)
Brian Hartline 12/150/0
Charles Clay 34/350/2

Jarvis Landry 36/395/4 TD
Rishard Mathews 26/438/4
Kenny Stills 10/147/1

We are on top 980 yards/9 tds to 692/3. Most of that yardage is from Clay, who we knew was good.

Turns out our #5 WR from last year was better than our #1. These moves are looking pretty good right now. So much for Wallace being better with Bridgewater (who was supposed to be a better deep passer).

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Re: New WR...
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: October 29, 2015 08:11AM

JoeFootball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Turns out our #5 WR from last year was better than
> our #1. These moves are looking pretty good right
> now. So much for Wallace being better with
> Bridgewater (who was supposed to be a better deep
> passer).


Remember we got the real deal tannehill throwing at him...Hartline was a 1000 yard receiver when he was here.....I wonder how good is he doing where is is now?

5 or 10 yard passes are short passes but it takes a great qb to throw the football in stride for the receiver to make a play and go for long yardage...

Im the biggest tennehill critic and biggest supporter as well.

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