So let's see, we entered the offseason with big needs at lb and db and db and ol with wr next. We've now cut or will cut 3 of our top wr including starters and made wr our top need with the others still glaring. And we are going to make our qb who we hope to make the next huge leap (our future is totally pinned on this) play with all new wr

If we were gonna do this why the hell did we keep Philbin? This is a rebuild he will be gone next year and then we start over yet again with a new coach and system

What a clown show we have running things

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

I don't know if I'd categorize the WR's cut as "top" in any category. They were mediocre at best, possibly worse than that. It was one of those invisible weaknesses on this team in addition to the LB problem which was never resolved from the very start of the entire season.

Hartline and Gibson have both lost something over the last two years really, they are unable to run appropriate routes that get them space, Hartline's hands are questionable and he's got no quick step, Gibson is injury prone and slow...they never got good YAC yardage or TD totals. I don't mind dumping them.

As per the other weaknesses, yes they are still there in addition to what I foresee as a decline in what was formerly a strength to the team: on the Defensive line.

I agree with you in wondering why "Pinhead" is still the Coach...and I do not have hope that this team will be a playoff team this next season as there are too many glaring weaknesses on both sides of the ball.

I don't foresee Hartline's departure making a noticeable negative impact. Jarvis Landry was a good find, so perhaps one strength that Philbin does have is a good eye for receivers in the draft -- at least that's what I'm hoping to find true.

Now a difference that stood out to me this past season was the departure of Paul Soliai. I immediately felt that it was a mistake to let him walk, and that sentiment became solidified while watching our opponents run the ball with ease right down our throats.

It's not Philbin with the eye for talent, it's Hickey. He was known for being able to spot WR and RB talent. Heard several people say that was his reputation before coming here.

toko34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know if I'd categorize the WR's cut as
> "top" in any category. They were mediocre at
> best, possibly worse than that. It was one of
> those invisible weaknesses on this team in
> addition to the LB problem which was never
> resolved from the very start of the entire season.
>
>
> Hartline and Gibson have both lost something over
> the last two years really, they are unable to run
> appropriate routes that get them space, Hartline's
> hands are questionable and he's got no quick step,
> Gibson is injury prone and slow...they never got
> good YAC yardage or TD totals. I don't mind
> dumping them.
>
> As per the other weaknesses, yes they are still
> there in addition to what I foresee as a decline
> in what was formerly a strength to the team: on
> the Defensive line.
>
> I agree with you in wondering why "Pinhead" is
> still the Coach...and I do not have hope that this
> team will be a playoff team this next season as
> there are too many glaring weaknesses on both
> sides of the ball.

I meant "top" on our team as terms of position strength----tho we had best WR in AFC East for sure....
unless we are in complete rebuild---in which case why the hell keep the HC for a "playoffs or bust" year---we have no business created a new weakness/desparate need where there wasn't one

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Hartline and Gibson were #4 and #5 targets. They have not made any moves, draft has not happened. To say, 1 step fwd 2 steps back is an exaggeration and premature.

berk is right. The need for another WR should have had to do with Wallace who we knew was going to be gone but not Hartline. But I agree that Jarvis Landry might be a solution already on the bench

but that's the f*cking problem, PINHEAD does not give enough playing time to rookies to determine whether they are going to end up worth something or a bust.

The proof is in the pudding. If Wallace ends up getting released or traded then we're right back where we were two seasons ago when "we have to surround Tannehill with some weapons to succeed."
If it doesn't work out measurably then I can see Philbin buying another year by convincing Ross that Tanny needs more time to develop chemistry with his receivers.
I just don't trust this front office to have an intelligent long term plan.

Hooligan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The proof is in the pudding. If Wallace ends up
> getting released or traded then we're right back
> where we were two seasons ago when "we have to
> surround Tannehill with some weapons to succeed."
> If it doesn't work out measurably then I can see
> Philbin buying another year by convincing Ross
> that Tanny needs more time to develop chemistry
> with his receivers.
> I just don't trust this front office to have an
> intelligent long term plan.

please lord no

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So let's see, we entered the offseason with big
> needs at lb and db and db and ol with wr next.
> We've now cut or will cut 3 of our top wr
> including starters and made wr our top need with
> the others still glaring. And we are going to make
> our qb who we hope to make the next huge leap (our
> future is totally pinned on this) play with all
> new wr
>
> If we were gonna do this why the hell did we keep
> Philbin? This is a rebuild he will be gone next
> year and then we start over yet again with a new
> coach and system
>
> What a clown show we have running things

********************************************************

Berk, are you saying we now have the clown car that the Jets have been driving for the past few years?

All this uproar over a 450 yard producer and they have only just begun. This is going to be fun to watch.

450 yards last season but, the two seasons before that showed he is a 1000 yard producer IF the ball is thrown his way.

...and 5 TD's in those two years. So he just gets a mulligan for last year and we blame it all on the QB who was able to have a pretty good season without much of his help? He's got to get open. Sloppy routes, no separation = no targets....of which he had 62 and 5 drops. Antonio brown had that many drops on 178 targets.

What have you done for me lately? That cap room is better used elsewhere..like at DT and OG

Hartline was always on my list of players most likely to be upgraded this off season and Gibson was a no brainer cut.

Wallace has to be kept and always did...despite his diva attitude and antics. He is too much of a threat and he makes too much money.

Keep Wallace...add a big fast, physical WR in the draft and we are set.

Ok so which 3 wr are we bringing in to replace these two plus Wallace? If we are spending out cap room on other needs and there are only so many picks we can spend on wr?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok so which 3 wr are we bringing in to replace
> these two plus Wallace?

Landry already replaced Hartline and actually became the #1 target. A healthy Clay will only add to that mix. Mathews is more than capable of being a 4th WR or 3rd. He could start for several teams. He started 5 games in 2013 and had just as much production as Hartline did in 2014 over 16 games. Like Ken said, add a big capable receiver in the draft and we are in better shape than 2014.

Wallace
Mathews
A healthy Clay
Landry
Rookie

Gibson was an after thought who was getting paid like a #2. Hartline was a #3 or 4 getting paid as a #1 or 2.

If we are spending out cap
> room on other needs and there are only so many
> picks we can spend on wr?

Which is why cuts were made, so we can sign FA's. Those two releases give us the cap space to sign a DT that will contribute more than the limited production we received from Hartline and Gibson. A quality DT in 2014 would have meant the difference between playoffs or no playoff. A couple of low level WR's didn't make many plays or much of a difference other than taking up space and keeping better talent off the roster...(thanks to Jeff and his inability to assess potential.)

It's all about cutting dead roster spots. Players that aren't making plays...What they do with the room is still up in the air but the philosophy is sound.

Anything could happen from here on out....players trades, trading up, trading down in the draft. It's very deep in WR's that will be just as good if not better than Hartline in thier rookie years.

12 ROOKIE WR's had more yards than BH last year!!!!

3 had better years than Hartline's BEST year.

From all accounts, this year is as good or better.

It's a brilliant approach IMO. Rid yourself of the cap restrictive, unproductive vets and cash in on the latest trend for cheap rookies.

When your 8-8...what do you suggest? keep the same average players?

We could end up trading a player and moving up in the draft. It's wide open. Even if we cut Wallace, we can replenish the roster with defensive talent in FA.

With all the talent at pass rusher, two Qb's, the need for OL'men, DT's...we could end up with Amari Cooper with a nice move...or Davante Parker at 14...

Kelvin Benjamin was taken at 28 last year. Landry and his 750/5 was taken in the next to last pick in the 2nd round.

Hickey knows WR and RB talent.

Wallace
Landry
PArker
Mathews
Clay

or

Cooper
Landry
Mathews
Clay

or

Strong
Landry
Mathews
Clay

I don't see the problem here....

This assumes we cut Wallace. WhT makes you think they r keeping him. All indicAtions is he's out. If we keep him and take wr in first or 2d we'd be ok

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

We'll be ok even if we don't but then added pressure to get STUD WR in first or sign FA like Maclin.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2015 02:56PM by JoeFootball.

The problem with cutting Wallace this year is who are we going to get that replaces him. No one in F/A that we have a shot at getting does, and do we want to go into the season with only Landry.

Even trading him is head scratcher should we pull it off.

It'll be interesting to see what the plan actually is...

Does anybody really believe that Philbin is going to keep a player that quit on his team in the middle of a game?

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

Randy Moss was a whining bitch who quit on the raiders, bellicheat happily snatched him up and he was a model citizen and dominating once again for a number of years. GOOD coaches can work with malcontents and bring the best out of them, bad coaches throw up their hands and allow them to leave because they can't do their freaking jobs, which is to motivate, lead, and inspire.
So YES, Wallace is as good as gone. But hey, we've still got Philbin, and all the many skills he brings to the table (still waiting to find out just one of what those supposedly are)

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Moss was not whiny he was straight up (as usual) about playing for a suck bs *** organization (sound familiar) and got traded to a winning organization.

Wallace is one of the few Phins w/ guts and really sick of the crap going on w/ this organization.

What crap would that be? The new logo or the red carpet and celebrity owners?

What crap just call it the post Dan Marine era.

And as soon as Randy Moss started whining in New England, Belichick showed him the door.

My issue with Wallace is the me-first attitude. He was mad at his number of targets after his first game as a Fin, which was a victory. And he has this blow up in the season finale this year, after a 93 yard TD drive that gave us the lead. I think just about any coach is going to have a real problem with a guy that appears to put his own personal stats above the team. It's one thing to be upset over how you are used. It's another to threaten to the coaches that you are going to quit over it. Personally, I don't want guys with this sort of attitude on the team. And I also look at it like this, Wallace will not be on the team in 2016. There is no chance they will keep him at a $14M cap hit in 2016. I don't see us making a Super Bowl run in 2015, our first step is just making the playoffs. So if Wallace isn't part of the long term plan, get rid of him now and get someone in the offense who will be part of that 2016 roster.

I also think people are looking at Hartline's drop off in production all wrong. Number one, you can't compare outside WRs to slot guys. Slot WRs have huge advantages that the outside guys don't get. To compare Landry or Matthews (in 2013) to Hartline is like comparing apples to oranges. But most importantly, no one would have produced big numbers in Hartline's role this season because of how the offense changed. And in my opinion, this is something Lazor still needs to work on and get fixed. My main complaint with Lazor is that he can get very predictable. His play calling on 3rd downs and in the redzone leaves a lot to be desired. And just as a casual fan, I found myself able to identify upcoming plays based on down/distance, field position, and formation. He had a lot of situational tendencies that he didn't seem aware of, or he didn't care that he was being predictable. How does this relate to Hartline? Hartline's production fell off because his position became the 3rd or 4th read on most passing plays. You could see this in Tannehill's progressions. Wallace and Landry almost always were read first, and often Clay as well. If those guys are getting open, then Hartline just wasn't going to get targets. And also, especially after Albert went down, there was no time to get to 3rd or 4th reads. Lazor treated that WR spot as an afterthought. He never once switched up and featured that position. It was very predictable for the defense. If this offense is to continue to grow, this is something Lazor needs to fix. He needs to mix up the route combinations and reads to get all of the WR positions equally involved.