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          Other players on the way out in miami.
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Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 25, 2009 04:19AM


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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 25, 2009 05:10AM

Now we have a pick in every round.


1st Round - Pick 25
2nd Round - Pick 12 (44th overall)
2nd Round - Pick 24 (56th overall)
3rd Round - Pick 23 (87th overall)
4th Round - Pick 8 (108th overall)
5th Round - Pick 25 (161st overall)
6th Round - Pick 8 (181st overall)
7th Round - Pick 5 (214th overall)
7th Round - Pick 28 (237th overall)


Hopefully we can hit on the first 4 rounds.....

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: Northeast Fin Fan ()
Date: March 25, 2009 05:23AM

I would love to see us get something (anything) for Wilford. Even if it is a late round pick, it may be enough to help us move up in the middle rounds if we want to do that.

I am not sure that we really want to trade Beck right now. His trade value is about as low as it can get. Also, if Henne is clearly the starter in 2010, do we really expect Pennington back? If not, Beck might be our primary backup in 2010 and beyond.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 25, 2009 05:32AM

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would love to see us get something (anything)
> for Wilford. Even if it is a late round pick, it
> may be enough to help us move up in the middle
> rounds if we want to do that.

Exactly!!!!!!

>
> I am not sure that we really want to trade Beck
> right now. His trade value is about as low as it
> can get. Also, if Henne is clearly the starter in
> 2010, do we really expect Pennington back? If
> not, Beck might be our primary backup in 2010 and
> beyond.

Scares me to think of beck as the number 2 QB.....Pennington would be close to retirement by 2010. He would make a great QB coach here in miami. Of course he has the smarts, he is a leader and players looked up to him as soon as he hit the field here in miami. That is coaching material.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 25, 2009 05:36AM

And i know im getting ahead of myself but you always want people like pennington in your organization. Either as a player or coach. it just makes everybody much better.


He made our receivers look like superstars at times.

Name a team that has a worse receiving corps than we did in 2008.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2009 05:38AM by samsam3738.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: Northeast Fin Fan ()
Date: March 25, 2009 06:21AM

There are several teams that were about equal to us in terms of overall WR production:
Buffalo
Minnesota
Baltimore
Washington
Detroit
St Louis
Seattle

I think the following teams got less WR production than us last year:
Chicago
Jacksonville
Cleveland
Tennessee
Oakland
San Francisco

Three of those teams made the playoffs and were legitimate threats to make it to the Super Bowl. That said, I am not disappointed with our WR's. We were middle of the pack, but our guys are young and still developing. Based on last year's numbers, there are other areas of the team that have a greater need than our WR corps.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: March 25, 2009 06:22AM


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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 25, 2009 06:49AM

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
>
> I think the following teams got less WR production
> than us last year:
> Chicago
> Jacksonville
> Cleveland
> Tennessee
> Oakland
> San Francisco
>
Which brings me back to my point, we had pennington, they did not.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 25, 2009 06:56AM

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Name a team that has a worse receiving corps than
> we did in 2008.
>
> There are none.
>
> The truth is we do not have a true number 1 on our
> team and nobody that is going to be a number 1.
> Ginn would be a great number 2 in an Alvin
> Harper/deep threat type of role but we need that
> physical WR with enough speed and "make miss"
> ability to step in at number 1. Ginn has the
> ability to be better than Harper ever was and
> still could be a 1000 yard receiver.
>


I agree i think there is still hope for ginn on this team. He showed flashes of getting to the next level last year. I think we will find that # 1 in this years draft. Hopefully.

Was harper that Dallas WR???????????

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: Northeast Fin Fan ()
Date: March 25, 2009 07:04AM

I agree that Pennington played well and was a big part of our success in 2008. That said, our WRs still had to catch the ball, and the stats indicate that our WRs produced as much or more than the WRs on 13 other teams last year.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: March 25, 2009 07:09AM


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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: March 25, 2009 07:10AM

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that Pennington played well and was a big
> part of our success in 2008. That said, our WRs
> still had to catch the ball, and the stats
> indicate that our WRs produced as much or more
> than the WRs on 13 other teams last year.


Thats true the WRs have to catch the football and run ETC.....But its the way the ball is thrown, the location of the ball, the timing. It makes a big difference.

David martin is an example...........He coulnt catch a cold before pennington....All of a sudden becomes a reception machine last year.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: Northeast Fin Fan ()
Date: March 25, 2009 07:17AM

I understand that. My point is that I would like to see us continue focusing on our front 7, our CB's and our o-line.

Assuming, Camarillo is healthy and we can get some production out of London, our WR's will be just fine. We'll win if we have a great defense and a great offensive line. I hate using the Pats as an example, but they won 3 Super Bowls with middle of the road WRs. They won with a great defense and a great offensive line. Since then, their defense has declined and they haven't won another ring, despite having both Moss and Welker.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: March 25, 2009 07:49AM

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree that Pennington played well and was a big
> part of our success in 2008. That said, our WRs
> still had to catch the ball, and the stats
> indicate that our WRs produced as much or more
> than the WRs on 13 other teams last year.


Just because we had more passing yards does not mean our WR's were more productive than those other teams.

Miami's WR's had 2,012 yards and 5 TD's but there are other things to consider as well...

A few of those teams had TE's that led their teams in yards like Cleveland and Oakland.

Out of the teams you listed, only the Bears, Ten and Cleveland and Oakland had less yards out of their WR's than Miami did and they all had QB problems....rookie QB, played multiple QB's or had just plain bad QB play.

EVERY one of those teams you listed out-produced the Dolphins WR's in scoring. Even Tennessee had 9 TD's to our 5 TD's from WR's.

So maybe our WR's aren't the worst in league as a whole. They aren't even bad WR's. They did a great job overachieving but put Chad on any of those teams and their WR's are more productive.

Imagine if we had a Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith or Calvin Johnson playing with Chad pennington and along side Ted Ginn with Camarillo in the slot.

All of the sudden, Chads numbers go from 3,653 yards, 19 TD's/7 Int's to 4,300 yards, 29 TD's/7-10 ints...not to mention what it would do for our running game. That would put Chad in the top 3 QB's above Jay Cutler, Phillip Rivers and Peyton Manning.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: March 25, 2009 08:16AM

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I understand that. My point is that I would like
> to see us continue focusing on our front 7, our
> CB's and our o-line.
>
> Assuming, Camarillo is healthy and we can get some
> production out of London, our WR's will be just
> fine. We'll win if we have a great defense and a
> great offensive line. I hate using the Pats as an
> example, but they won 3 Super Bowls with middle of
> the road WRs. They won with a great defense and a
> great offensive line. Since then, their defense
> has declined and they haven't won another ring,
> despite having both Moss and Welker.

Assuming Cam is back to 100% and London can play more is a huge assumption.

NE won SuperBowls with middle of the road WR's BUT they had the best QB in the league throwing to them which made them better.

In their first championship season, Troy Brown led the league in receptions and had 1200 yards receiving.

In the 2nd SB season, Tom Brady had a season very similar to the one Chad Pennington just had but the offense produced over 5,000 yards.

In the 3rd SB season, Brady had another season like CP did in 08 but Corey Dillon rushed for over 1,600 yards.

And two years ago, as we all know, they were undefeated so obviously they were pretty darn good and more than capable of winning the SB. They had a couple elite WR's.

But I do agree that dominant lines will give you more bang for your buck. We just can't ignore the WR's in the process.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2009 08:19AM by eesti.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: Northeast Fin Fan ()
Date: March 25, 2009 08:18AM

There are a million ways to look at the stats. Overall, I think our WRs did a good job in 2008. I'm not going to add up every WR's stat-line, so if you say we only had more WR yardage than 4 other teams than I'll agree with that. Although, I am pretty sure Baltimore should be added to that list. Either way, there are definitely 8 additional teams that had very similar yardage to ours. Of that group, some had more yardage to WRs simply because they threw to more WRs. We really only threw to 3 WRs all year. We threw to our TEs a lot. Besides that, we ran a very balanced offense - so our WRs did not get nearly as many chances as some other WRs.

And three of the teams that had similar/less yards than us (Ten, Bal and Min) were legitimate Super Bowl contenders.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: Northeast Fin Fan ()
Date: March 25, 2009 08:25AM

All that is true, but the Pats didn't win 3 Super Bowls with WRs who were clearly better than our WRs. They were very similar. Brown had a big year, but he was at the top of his game. Our guys are still learning the game and improving. They have just as much ability as Brown had.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: March 25, 2009 08:34AM

Baltimore had Derick Mason who had over 1000 yards receiving and they had Todd Heap and a smash mouth running game.

and Minnesota was not a legitimate SB contender. They just won by default in a weak division and scraped by to get in the playoffs.

With the exception of red zone, I think we threw to our TE's out of necessity, not design. They were check downs because the #1 and #2 options weren't open most of the time.

I'm not disputing that our WR's did a great job. I am just saying that they overachieved because of the play of Pennington and we NEED a true #1 WR.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: Northeast Fin Fan ()
Date: March 25, 2009 08:46AM

Mason had 1000 yards, but our overall WR yardage was higher, and our TE's did more than Heap.

Minnesota was a contender. They beat both Carolina and Arizona (by a lot) during the season. Going into the playoffs, they were definitely more highly regarded than Arizona.

Pennington helped our WRs on the short-intermediate routes. I don't really think he helped them on the deep stuff.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: March 25, 2009 08:49AM

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All that is true, but the Pats didn't win 3 Super
> Bowls with WRs who were clearly better than our
> WRs. They were very similar. Brown had a big
> year, but he was at the top of his game. Our guys
> are still learning the game and improving. They
> have just as much ability as Brown had.

I hope you are right but I don't see much more upside to Bess and Camarillo. Too limited physical skills. London can get better but will never be a number 1.

In any case we are going to need a number 1 WR, a starting CB and an improved pass rush. Our running game should be fine. Our pass rush may already be better. Our new corner, Green is not starting material, has NO ball skills and will be a 3rd CB and you know how I feel about the WR's.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: March 25, 2009 09:03AM

Northeast Fin Fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mason had 1000 yards, but our overall WR yardage
> was higher, and our TE's did more than Heap.
>
> Minnesota was a contender. They beat both
> Carolina and Arizona (by a lot) during the season.
> Going into the playoffs, they were definitely
> more highly regarded than Arizona.

Maybe they were. I just never thought much of them with no QB.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: noetic ()
Date: March 25, 2009 11:41AM

A QB will always be more important than a WR. As such, its very obvious in which direction the stats are skewed.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Date: March 25, 2009 07:07PM

look we are fine with our wr core right now we can adress the number one guy when we can get one, we need to keep our oline top notch, and our rb's top notch, and get our defense in the top 5 before we ever consider taking a number one wideout. our recivers caught alot of balls, and had decent numbers, you didnt see a true wide out because EVERYONE on our team caught pass's and pennington has a solid 4 years left. come on people keep your head on straight. beck needs to stay, he is a solid 3rd string qb. we need an outstanding defense so lets draft baby draft.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: DolphinSam ()
Date: March 26, 2009 02:06AM

Everyone seems to forget that we ran on the wildcat the first half of the year, and that puttered out. So when we assume the running game won't be a problem, that's not true. Last year we went into the season predicting record seasons for R&R. Then we got out there, and boom, Ronnie ran into a brick wall. The LAST draft was supposed to allow us to run the ball, we got Jake, moved Carey over, etc. But it didn't happen. So Henning had to pull the wildcat out of his ass. What will we do this year?

We still have a mushy inside, in between Long and Carey. Plus we're not a passing threat, so teams will still stack the box. Camarillo is coming back hurt. We need some kind of upgrade on offense. I was hoping we'd be active in FA with WR, it didn't happen.

As I've said many times, I expect #25 to be OLB - English, Sintim or Barwin, but honestly I wouldn't complain if instead they used it for an outstanding O lineman to play Guard, like Duke Robinson or Max Unger. Then you'll see Ronnie get yardage. If they don't do that, then I want Levitre at the top of the 2nd round.

Getting back to the topic of players out of Miami, I agree there's plenty more to get rid of, like Beck. Beck is a perfect example of drafting out of need, not talent. Miami wasn't going to the superbowl with Beck, so what was Cam thinking? It was just a waste of a high pick. And with Ginn, assuming and hoping he could do stuff wasn't good enough. The guy was a fragile WR, all he had was speed, and there was no indication he'd translate to the NFL. The first three picks of the draft you have to pick solid, performing players who will upgrade your team, and in later picks you get get developmental guys.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2009 02:09AM by DolphinSam.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Date: March 26, 2009 06:17AM

thomas and smiley IR'ED last year was the direct result in a poor running game, with samson undersized, its a wonder we did any good at all, people keep forgetting this? i mean yeah i want another solid center at draft, but i want a playmaking CB, or LB first, get a solid O-LINEman in the second round, i also want a playmaker who can do ALOT I-E pat white, the man can do alot for our offense, and special teams, but back too the basic's o-lineman draft like 2 or 3, i would try to trade a player, and as many low picks as possible to get one more first round, and a second round. if we had 2 first rounds, and 3 second rounds we could adress ALOT of issues this year, we can give up our 5th and one of our 6th round for a second, and our 4th and beck for a first, just saying i would we need quality this year not quantaty.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: March 26, 2009 07:42AM

dolphinsnumberonestunner Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thomas and smiley IR'ED last year was the direct
> result in a poor running game, with samson
> undersized, its a wonder we did any good at all

I guess it just proves how important the Tackles are. We managed to muster 11 wins with a very soft middle to the line, but when our tackles couldn't protect the QB in 2004 we only won 4.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: DolphinSam ()
Date: March 26, 2009 04:09PM

Oh come on, we couldn't run from day one. It's not because Thomas and Smiley were out. But, I will say that it took time for the O line to gell, and they performed much better once they did, but unfortunately Thomas got hurt.

We got REAL creative on offense, and I think from that and sheer will and effort, some unexpected performances by guys like Bess, and the very lucky break of signing Chad Pennington who literally kept this offense afloat...we moved the chains.

In addition to that, our defense was pretty effective at creating turnovers, so every time Pennington's offense came up with a big goose egg, we handed the ball back to him and said "try again."

No doubt, we have offensive challenges this year again. We NEED to add something significant to that side of the ball. Something other than signing a center who's injured every year.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Date: March 26, 2009 07:43PM

i agree add another solid center mid rouns, and get a nice left guard, also i think since we our a team of the wildcat, pat white, could do alot as a versatile person. but i feel that with a healthy line, and a few upgrades, and we still have decent rb core. that the defense is the most important aspect to adress, ESPECIALY CB and safty then fill in one more solid LB, and get solid NT and DE many of you forget that last year we had ALOT of rookies and it takes time to develop mentaly and physicaly, granted i think robiskie would be a fantastic choice in third round, but we need a shut down defense our offense can do enough and if we added a robiskie and pat white our offense this year would dominate, next year we can look twards a true number one wideout, and another number one RB.

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: March 27, 2009 09:21AM

I think we will add a later round lineman with untapped potential that can play Center or Guard and maybe even Tackle. Maybe we find a diamond in the rough like Thomas in 08 who can push Grove and/or Smiley.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Other players on the way out in miami.
Posted by: DaytonaDolfan13 ()
Date: March 27, 2009 07:44PM

JASON WATKINS T UF

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