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          Don Jones
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Pages: Previous123456
Current Page: 6 of 6
Don Jones' punishment vs. Rice's punishment?
Posted by: JC ()
Date: May 15, 2014 08:51AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Posted by: Sickofit+1 ()
Date: May 15, 2014 08:58AM

Yep welcome too new America!! Whohoooooo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Date: May 15, 2014 09:03AM

Nope that's it in a nutshell. Don't forget Commissioner Goodsell's Brother is Gay. Irrelevant I know, but his agendas becomes everyone else's. The big issues are what the media decides are big issues. Aaron Hernandez was just indicted today for double homicide. Hardly a peep. Tweet anything personal , no matter how small (1 word) and you will be dealt with.

Its a offensive world now. In my job I have to be super careful. You offend you are done. Better learn the PR in and outs of your Job no matter what it is are you will not have it long. I used to think Billionaire owners were untouchable. Ask Donald Sterling how that worked out. eye rolling smiley

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 15, 2014 09:09AM

I don't think a fair comparison can be made, JC. Obviously the criminal acts you mentioned are, of course, far more serious than the dumb tweets Jones made.

No proof of that need be labored for a second seeing as to how what Rice did SHOULD have gotten him jail if not prison.

Hands down your post is spot on.

Now, I know you know the difference between a justification and an explanation.

Below I will give you an explanation that is not meant to be, in any way, a justification.

The Dolphins were already involved in too much sh*t to have any of its members get involved in this in any way except to praise Sam.

This was the very sh*t that got the Dolphins in trouble in the first place with Jonathan Martin checking into a looney bin.

Whether THAT reaction by the NFL in this post bully-gate era was an over-reaction itself is another matter. Were I the Commissioner of the NFL my punishment to Jones would have been this:

I would have made a public statement questioning Jones' sanity to even get involved in this as a Miami Dolphin in the post bullygate era and I would have asked him "Do you get what we are doing to your team? and have you heard of the sensitivity training we are trying to institute there?"

After making these public statements alone, then that would have been the end of the matter for me.

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Re: Don Jones
Posted by: Sickofit+1 ()
Date: May 15, 2014 09:13AM

Well to look at things positively any publicity is good publicity.

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Re: Don Jones
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: May 15, 2014 09:31AM

LMAO.

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Re: Don Jones' punishment vs. Rice's punishment?
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: May 15, 2014 11:28AM


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Re: Don Jones' punishment vs. Rice's punishment?
Posted by: JC ()
Date: May 15, 2014 03:03PM

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I might be wrong, but I don't think the NFL
> weighs in on issues that are headed to criminal
> court until after there is a verdict or a plea.

Didn't the Patsies drop Hernandez very, very quickly?



>
> The Jones thing is different. It's an internal
> employee / employer issue. The league didn't
> punish Jones. The dolphins did.

You're right...I misspoke when I mentioned the NFL rather than his team. I meant to say, the TEAM failed to punish Rice.

But the NFL does hand out suspensions and fines in the past. I don't know why they can't do it in addition to the team punishing Rice. They both should be disciplining him, but neither is.

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Re: Don Jones
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 15, 2014 03:17PM

btW: Hernandez has been arrested in that double murder THAT I TOLD YOU GUYS I JUST KNEW HE WAS INVOLVED IN.

I'LL try to find the thread and bump it up.

The POS.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones' punishment vs. Rice's punishment?
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: May 15, 2014 03:45PM

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > I might be wrong, but I don't think the NFL
> > weighs in on issues that are headed to criminal
> > court until after there is a verdict or a plea.
>
> Didn't the Patsies drop Hernandez very, very
> quickly?
>
>



Yes they did. But that wasn't a league punishment. It was a team deciding to cut a player. That happens every day.

>
> >
> > The Jones thing is different. It's an
> internal
> > employee / employer issue. The league didn't
> > punish Jones. The dolphins did.
>
> You're right...I misspoke when I mentioned the NFL
> rather than his team. I meant to say, the TEAM
> failed to punish Rice.
>
> But the NFL does hand out suspensions and fines in
> the past. I don't know why they can't do it in
> addition to the team punishing Rice. They both
> should be disciplining him, but neither is.

Again, its a criminal matter with Rice. The league pre-judging the situation and handing out a fine or penalty could impact the ability to get a fair trial.

Look what they do with DWI's...they wait until there is a verdict or a plea bargain. Then they suspend. That way if the charges are dropped or the player is found innocent they don't have to try to "un-ring that bell."

I bet its part of the CBA that they have to wait on criminal issues for the court proceedings to be finalized.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 15, 2014 04:55PM

I just read about this- It has to do with money. If the Ravens cut Rice, they give up their right to recoup money from him... If the league suspends him then they can get money back...

When the Patriots cut Hernandez they actually messed up because most likely they will get nothing back from his contract... On the contrary, when Mike Vick got arrested the Falcons never cut him.. Which allowed them to recoup big money back from him... So it has to be league imposed to protect your pocket book...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: May 15, 2014 04:56PM

I did not mean to offend anyone on this board when I said I would not attend a dolphins game with members on this board. Sorry however I am a private person, and this board does not allow my true identity to come out. Which is the way I want it. Once again you guys have all the fun you want. I would rather go to a game with my family, and close friends. So please don't get offended by these comments. I apologize if I offended any of you have a nice time all of you.

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Re: Don Jones
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: May 15, 2014 05:13PM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just read about this- It has to do with money.
> If the Ravens cut Rice, they give up their right
> to recoup money from him... If the league suspends
> him then they can get money back...
>
> When the Patriots cut Hernandez they actually
> messed up because most likely they will get
> nothing back from his contract... On the contrary,
> when Mike Vick got arrested the Falcons never cut
> him.. Which allowed them to recoup big money back
> from him... So it has to be league imposed to
> protect your pocket book...


That's a different issue crowder. I don't think JC was asking about why the team hasn't acted. He was asking why the league hadn't acted on the rice situation.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 15, 2014 05:33PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Date: May 15, 2014 09:04PM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I did not mean to offend anyone on this board when
> I said I would not attend a dolphins game with
> members on this board. Sorry however I am a
> private person, and this board does not allow my
> true identity to come out. Which is the way I
> want it. Once again you guys have all the fun you
> want. I would rather go to a game with my family,
> and close friends. So please don't get offended
> by these comments. I apologize if I offended any
> of you have a nice time all of you.



gee....... must be hard then to share that stadium with 70,000 other people crashing your private party huh? eye rolling smiley

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones' punishment vs. Rice's punishment?
Posted by: JC ()
Date: May 16, 2014 07:09AM

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JC Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > THE Truth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------

>
>
> Yes they did. But that wasn't a league
> punishment. It was a team deciding to cut a
> player. That happens every day.


Hmmm I wonder what made them 'decide'. nah...must have been a just a coincidence. grinning smiley



>
> Again, its a criminal matter with Rice. The
> league pre-judging the situation and handing out a
> fine or penalty could impact the ability to get a
> fair trial.


I know it's a criminal matter, but it's also a team matter (or least it *should* be). Beating the crap out of one's girlfriend and dragging her unconscious body on the floor *should be* conduct unbecoming of a professional football player--separate from the criminal case. The team and/or league investigation should consist of looking at the video that everyone else in the world has already seen.

>
> Look what they do with DWI's...they wait until
> there is a verdict or a plea bargain. Then they
> suspend. That way if the charges are dropped or
> the player is found innocent they don't have to
> try to "un-ring that bell."

And a DWI can more questionable components than the video of Rice beating his girlfriend. Even if the police release the DWI arrest video...there's always the chance that a prescription medication interaction caused slurred speech or stumbling...the guy could have had a stroke....he could be hypoglycemic, etc. In those cases, yes investigate and maybe wait on the (lovely) court system we have.

But a video of a guy punching the crap out of his girlfriend....how does the team/league need to wait on the trial? They have the video. Of him punching her. If I'm in the league office or the team FO, here would be the extent of the investigation:

Is that you? yes? Is that a woman that you're beating unconscious? Yes? Okay then. I've seen enough. You won't be collecting a paycheck from me for a long time.

Once again the above is separate from the criminal investigation and doesn't (IMO) pollute the judicial proceedings any more than Hernandez getting cut does.

I mean the guy could claim in *court* that his girlfriend had a bunch of mosquitoes on her face and head, and that he was only punching her out of an act of chivalry, to kill the mosquitoes...that might work with the right jury, but if I'm his employer, I take immediate action after seeing that video.


>
> I bet its part of the CBA that they have to wait
> on criminal issues for the court proceedings to be
> finalized.


That's probably correct. I suppose the team would have had to implement a "no beating up your girlfriend" policy, then would have been able to discipline him under violating Team Policy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Posted by: JC ()
Date: May 16, 2014 07:11AM

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's a different issue crowder. I don't think
> JC was asking about why the team hasn't acted. He
> was asking why the league hadn't acted on the rice
> situation.


I admit that I asked about the team and the league...mostly out of admitted ignorance.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones' punishment vs. Rice's punishment?
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: May 16, 2014 07:38AM

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > JC Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > THE Truth Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
>
> >
> >
> > Yes they did. But that wasn't a league
> > punishment. It was a team deciding to cut a
> > player. That happens every day.
>
>
> Hmmm I wonder what made them 'decide'. nah...must
> have been a just a coincidence. grinning smiley



lol...its no coincidence. The team had inside info on the case against him and decided he wasn't worth keeping around. But its not a punishment to get cut. You still get paid all of your guaranteed money and you are able to sign with another team right away, if there is a team that wants you.







>
>
>
> >
> > Again, its a criminal matter with Rice. The
> > league pre-judging the situation and handing out
> a
> > fine or penalty could impact the ability to get
> a
> > fair trial.
>
>
> I know it's a criminal matter, but it's also a
> team matter (or least it *should* be). Beating
> the crap out of one's girlfriend and dragging her
> unconscious body on the floor *should be* conduct
> unbecoming of a professional football
> player--separate from the criminal case. The team
> and/or league investigation should consist of
> looking at the video that everyone else in the
> world has already seen.


That's exactly why they wait. And why the team doesn't affect a punishment (suspension and/or fine) until the legal proceeding play out.

Guilty in the court of public opinion isn't guilty, at least until a jury says so.

It doesn't look like its the case with Rice, but what if he didn't do it? What kind of lawsuit would the team be facing if they acted on their own based on circumstantial evidence or inaccurate public info?

Look at the Duke Lacrosse Rape case. Everyone in the world thought they were guilty. Turns out the charges were all BS. How do you unring that bell if you jump the gun as an organization and fine/suspend someone?


>
> >
> > Look what they do with DWI's...they wait until
> > there is a verdict or a plea bargain. Then
> they
> > suspend. That way if the charges are dropped
> or
> > the player is found innocent they don't have to
> > try to "un-ring that bell."
>
> And a DWI can more questionable components than
> the video of Rice beating his girlfriend. Even if
> the police release the DWI arrest video...there's
> always the chance that a prescription medication
> interaction caused slurred speech or
> stumbling...the guy could have had a stroke....he
> could be hypoglycemic, etc. In those cases, yes
> investigate and maybe wait on the (lovely) court
> system we have.


Its all questionable. That's why you have the right to a trial where they have to prove you are guilty.

As for Rice, the only video I've seen is a blurry shot of elevator doors opening and a short balk male holding a woman who he helps to the ground. Never seen one that shows his face clearly or shows "him" hitting her.

If you are the Ravens, why would you want to be in the business of investigating the truth behind the story and then having to defend your findings after punishing the player?

Much better to let the DA handle it so you aren't interfering with their investigation or worse... influencing the outcome of a trial by publicly declaring his innocence or guilt before he has his day in court.



>
> But a video of a guy punching the crap out of his
> girlfriend....how does the team/league need to
> wait on the trial? They have the video. Of him
> punching her. If I'm in the league office or the
> team FO, here would be the extent of the
> investigation:
>
> Is that you? yes? Is that a woman that you're
> beating unconscious? Yes? Okay then. I've seen
> enough. You won't be collecting a paycheck from
> me for a long time.


Ok...what if the conversation is: "is that you?"...."no comment" or "no"?????

He's not going to confess to you if he didn't confess to the police.

No lawyer in the world would let him. He'd be facing jail time which is way worse than anything you can do to him as a team.




>
> Once again the above is separate from the criminal
> investigation and doesn't (IMO) pollute the
> judicial proceedings any more than Hernandez
> getting cut does.
>
> I mean the guy could claim in *court* that his
> girlfriend had a bunch of mosquitoes on her face
> and head, and that he was only punching her out of
> an act of chivalry, to kill the mosquitoes...that
> might work with the right jury, but if I'm his
> employer, I take immediate action after seeing
> that video.


Which video?


Its going to have to be irrefutable evidence because his new wife ain't talking about it.

>
>
> >
> > I bet its part of the CBA that they have to
> wait
> > on criminal issues for the court proceedings to
> be
> > finalized.
>
>
> That's probably correct. I suppose the team would
> have had to implement a "no beating up your
> girlfriend" policy, then would have been able to
> discipline him under violating Team Policy.


I get where yo are coming from JC. It seems like common sense. But I'm sure the league and the teams want nothing to do with punishing a player by suspending them and taking away money unless they know its a decision they won't have to defend or litigate.

That's why its in the CBA. They layoff until the courts decide. Then they act, assuming the player wasn't released by his team before that.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones' punishment vs. Rice's punishment?
Posted by: JC ()
Date: May 16, 2014 08:12AM

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> lol...its no coincidence. The team had inside
> info on the case against him and decided he wasn't
> worth keeping around.
>

You bring up a related issue about Hernandez. The Pats *should* have known the guy was trouble early on. His thug history goes way back. The cops in MA have good contacts in neighboring states. Hernandez had a bad reputation in Connecticut and the Pats either did a horrible job with his background check or chose to ignore it.


>
> Guilty in the court of public opinion isn't
> guilty, at least until a jury says so.
>

That is correct, but I'm not referring to public opinion or jury's opinion. I'm referring to Employer's Opinion.


> It doesn't look like its the case with Rice, but
> what if he didn't do it?

They have video of it. If he didn't do it, then a guy who looks a lot like him beat up a girl who looks a lot like his girlfriend, in a location he doesn't seem to dispute being at on the night in question.

Or, there's always the Mosquito Defense from my previous post.


What kind of lawsuit
> would the team be facing if they acted on their
> own based on circumstantial evidence or inaccurate
> public info?
>

I'm talking about video evidence. Are you saying the video is inaccurate?


> Look at the Duke Lacrosse Rape case. Everyone
> in the world thought they were guilty. Turns out
> the charges were all BS. How do you unring that
> bell if you jump the gun as an organization and
> fine/suspend someone?
>
>

Apples and oranges....there was no video of the Duke athletes raping a woman (I don't think).


>
>
> Its all questionable. That's why you have the
> right to a trial where they have to prove you are
> guilty.
>

It sure is...but I'm still not referring to a court case.


> As for Rice, the only video I've seen is a blurry
> shot of elevator doors opening and a short balk
> male holding a woman who he helps to the ground.
> Never seen one that shows his face clearly or
> shows "him" hitting her.
>

He helped her to the ground all right. By knocking her out.

I haven't seen such video either. But:

I did a little searching, and apparently the police DO have video of Rice beating the woman. It hasn't been released yet. The youtube videos out there only show her being dragged through the elevator. The cops have something from a different camera *I think* Of course I don't know for sure, but that's what I'm basing most of my comments on---video that the cops have but haven't released. This is according to a deadspin.com article that cites Sports Illustrated.

By the way, the same article quotes *witnesses* who say he hit her with an uppercut and also punched her in the way a guy would punch another guy in a fight.

> If you are the Ravens, why would you want to be in
> the business of investigating the truth behind the
> story and then having to defend your findings
> after punishing the player?
>

I wouldn't, until/unless I saw the video footage.


>
>
> Ok...what if the conversation is: "is that
> you?"...."no comment" or "no"?????
>

Then I go through casino records, talk to dealers, talk to the witnesses, ask for records.

Does Mr. Rice have a LOC at this casino? Did he use it that night? Did he use his credit cards anywhere on the property? Any dinner reservations, etc.? Interview other employees, find clear video of him playing at the casino (you KNOW casinos all have lots of video equipment inside the gambling rooms). How about that...is that you? Hmm, you have the same jewelry as that guy at the craps table. Look for other characteristics, if any..hair styles, accessories tattoos, etc. if any (on Ray and the girl).

Security guys and law enforcement are usually tight knit. Ask Team security and all police contacts "who do they know" in new jersey. Anybody know a retired cop working security in Jersey Casinos? they talk to each other.

Then ask if he was simply swatting mosquitoes on her face.


> He's not going to confess to you if he didn't
> confess to the police.


He wouldn't *need* to confess to me if the 'unseen' video were clear enough.

...that
> > might work with the right jury, but if I'm his
> > employer, I take immediate action after seeing
> > that video.
>
>
> Which video?
>

The one we haven't seen (yet?), referenced above.


>
> Its going to have to be irrefutable evidence
> because his new wife ain't talking about it.
>
> >


Agreed. I'm betting/guessing that casinos have high quality video footage and the cops haven't released it yet. If they don't, 100% of my theory goes screaming out the window and I'd agree with the "lawyer up" and drag it out (pun intended) procedure, and let the courts handle it first.

Wow, that's a long-assed post I just made about an issue I know little to nothing about, and tangential to the original topic.

Who's moderating this board anyway?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones' punishment vs. Rice's punishment?
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: May 16, 2014 09:09AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 16, 2014 09:48AM

Simplified version is that the league OUGHT to be able to act on a clear video of a beating as quickly as they can act on a tweet (both the video and the tweet can be seen by the whole world) and for that matter, the guy can deny the tweet (not very convincingly but he can) whereas obviously the other guy is GOING to deny (plead not guilty) to the assault regardless of how guilty he may actually be.

And the criminal process intervenes which ties the hands of the league as pointed out.

But JC was making an esoteric point. Isn't it odd that a guy has more protection in the NFL from an actual crime than an inadvisable tweet?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Date: May 16, 2014 12:52PM


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Re: Don Jones
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 16, 2014 01:24PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones' punishment vs. Rice's punishment?
Posted by: JC ()
Date: May 16, 2014 04:01PM

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Who's moderating this board anyway?
>
>
> Apparently nobody. You were to busy arguing...smiling bouncing smiley


Yeah I've gotten that out of my system.

It all comes down to the unseen video, if it exists.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: May 16, 2014 04:04PM

I have learned 2 set's of rules one for the average guy who might actually

help society, and another for the athletes who grow up pampered, and think

that the rules don't apply too them. Clearly Winston has gotten favorable

treatment since he entered cheaterville I mean FSU. He must of really

wanted those crab legs why should he have too pay, and not too mention

raping a girl off campus. How in the hell is he still playing sports for

this garbage of a school?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Date: May 16, 2014 04:33PM

FSU. I sent them a searing letter once after one of their ball Players was arrested for DUI locally. He was a minority and the racial slurs and his disrespect for law enforcement were astounding.

Then he gets out of jail and on social media writes he wished death on all police and he sees why cops get killed and they deserve it.

He was suspended from playing ball but was able to keep his scholarship through some other arrangement they worked out.

I believe he had to actually do several ride alongs with law enforcement and clean Cop cars.

That school does attract some thugs , but they did the right thing in that case. Miami ? ooooh boy. Not even going there. Both schools turned me into a Gators fan .sad smiley

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: May 16, 2014 04:46PM

I don't like the gators either. They have thugs as well.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Date: May 16, 2014 05:59PM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't like the gators either. They have thugs
> as well.


LOL. Dolphins have them, Schools have them, hell I even know a few Thug LE's that I stay away from. Still a gators fan though......drinking smiley

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Don Jones
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: May 17, 2014 10:37AM


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