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          Chris Collinsworth
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: April 20, 2014 03:28PM

say Pat Tillman should be in the Hall of Fame. I agree with his sentiment how in the heck is the league not honoring this player, and the ultimate sacrifice he made for our country. Do you guys think he belongs in the HOF? You guys know where I stand on this issue.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: April 20, 2014 03:31PM

he wasn't a hall of fame player, so no.
the NFL hall of fame is for what you do on the football field, not off it.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: April 20, 2014 03:45PM

I understand your sentiment however the NFL is missing the bigger picture of sacrifice, and giving up a contract to go and serve you country. I think they can make an exception.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 20, 2014 03:45PM

I get the emotional aspect of this, but he wasn't even close to being a HOF player.

A plaque, display, or even a memorial to him and all former NFL players who died in combat (and there are a lot of them) would be nice. I've never been, so maybe there is one already. If there isn't, there should be.

But Tillman shouldn't go in unless you intend to induct the 23 guys who played in the NFL and died in WWII as well as the two guys who died in Vietnam.

Is he an American hero for the sacrifice he made? Damn straight.

But he's not one of the best of the best to have played in the NFL.

Sorry, but I'd vote "no" on this if asked to.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/22/2014 03:10PM by THE Truth.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: April 21, 2014 03:44AM

No - entry into the Hall of fame should continue to be based on the contribution to football. I respect what Tillman did for his country to the utmost. He died as a soldier and should be honored as one. More football players have accomplished more than Tillman on the field and deserve entry into the hall of fame.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: colonel ()
Date: April 22, 2014 02:40PM

Tillman was a genuine patriot. A good man that wanted to do more than play professional sports. He is in a class with thousands of servicemen who sacrificed everything for this country. Yet, despite his former connection with the NFL, he is not entitled to be enshrined in the Football Hall of Fame.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Date: April 22, 2014 03:16PM

Wow. So many different ways to look at this. You got guys in the HOF that are such serious pieces of shit , I wouldn't want to have dinner with them. Then You have a guy like Pat Tilman. Who is everything a Sports hero should be . I think he would be a person everyone could admire and someone who should be honored anyway and everyway. The HOF should definitely find a spot to honorably mention such a great man and his sacrifice that helps The NFL continue on with the freedoms it enjoys.

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: April 22, 2014 03:38PM

they do, they have a wing honoring players who served their country. Give him a bust there.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Date: April 22, 2014 03:55PM

OJ Simpson is in the Hall. M Irving. Lawrence Taylor. Makes me want to go and point out such men of great character to my boys.

I went to the local Navy Seal museum here on the treasure coast recently. They have more honor and dignity in that bathroom then the entire HOF in my opinion.

Mr Tillman would bring that place something its severely lacking. CLASS.

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: April 22, 2014 03:59PM

why him and not the other players who died serving their country?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Date: April 22, 2014 06:23PM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why him and not the other players who died serving
> their country?


To me its really something that he had a choice.

A) NFL career. Millions. Anything he wanted. The ultimate American lifestyle.

cool smiley Afghanistan. Hell on earth. He choose hell over heaven.

When we are living in the age of gangsta players , wife beaters, grown men who literally spend Millions and are bankrupt in less then a decade. To see a person selfishly push it all aside and serve his country , to make that choice never ceases to amaze me.

And to all the others , they certainly deserve out heartfelt thanks and a position to be honored as well. God bless them all.

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: April 23, 2014 02:54AM

As an active military member with 12 years of service, I say, No.

The Hall is for the greatest players to ever play... ON THE FIELD.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/23/2014 03:48AM by Aqua&Orange.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: April 23, 2014 04:30AM


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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: April 23, 2014 04:41AM

I really think Tillman would not have wanted any of this. He died a soldiers death and that's how he would have wanted to be remembered like any other soldier. When you read his bio you would understand that.

I like what Tim James did a local Miami kid, first round nba draft pick. Joined the army went to Iraq and told no one he was a proffesional athlete. No fanfare at all.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 23, 2014 04:47AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Hugh (Shorty) Ray 1938-1952 -- Technical
> Advisor on Rules, Supervisor of Officials -
> National Football League, 1938-1952, Ed Sabol
> 1964-1995, and Charles W. Bidwill, Sr. 1933-1947
> -- Team Owner - Chicago Cardinals, 1933-1947, it
> surely isnt just for the greatest players to ever
> play on the field.... I could go on there are
> more....

They are all in because of their contributions to the nfl in their fields were deemed exceptional or impactful to the development of the league.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: mizzou15 ()
Date: April 23, 2014 08:05AM

TCP - there are also stout solid men in the HoF Alan Paige, Dwight Stephenson Johnathan Ogden and plenty of others. Don't smear the good w/ the bad. I think Irving and LT would have made damn good soldiers. They may have had their issues but when the bell rang they were ready for duty. OJ was always a prick.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: April 23, 2014 09:21AM

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If Hugh (Shorty) Ray 1938-1952 -- Technical
> > Advisor on Rules, Supervisor of Officials -
> > National Football League, 1938-1952, Ed Sabol
> > 1964-1995, and Charles W. Bidwill, Sr.
> 1933-1947
> > -- Team Owner - Chicago Cardinals, 1933-1947,
> it
> > surely isnt just for the greatest players to
> ever
> > play on the field.... I could go on there are
> > more....
>
> They are all in because of their contributions to
> the nfl in their fields were deemed exceptional or
> impactful to the development of the league.


Sure there are guys in the HOF for numerous reason and not all of them are related to them being the greatest players on the field..... I dont really care whether Tillman gets in or not, and I doubt he would have gave a shit either... Just making it clear the HOF inductees dont always corelate to them being the greatest football players on the field... They get in for a number of contributions outside of play on the field...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: Hooligan2 ()
Date: April 23, 2014 09:45AM

From Wikipedia

Despite his fame, Tillman did not want to be used for propaganda purposes. He spoke to friends about his opposition to President Bush and the Iraq war, and he had made an appointment with notable government critic Noam Chomsky for after his return from the military. The destruction of evidence linked to Tillman's death, including his personal journal, led his mother to speculate that he was murdered.

So there you have it, the original feel-good narrative of sacrifice and devotion to country soured a bit when the Army saw an opportunity to use the story as a recruiting tool and tried to cover up the friendly fire killing and instead sell the made for Hollywood epic to a gullible public.

No doubt, Tillman came to regret his decision and his family is bitter towards the Army to this day.

........................................

It is HEALTH that is the true wealth, not pieces of gold and silver.
-Mahatma Gandhi-



-

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 23, 2014 10:16AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crowder52 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > If Hugh (Shorty) Ray 1938-1952 -- Technical
> > > Advisor on Rules, Supervisor of Officials -
> > > National Football League, 1938-1952, Ed Sabol
> > > 1964-1995, and Charles W. Bidwill, Sr.
> > 1933-1947
> > > -- Team Owner - Chicago Cardinals, 1933-1947,
> > it
> > > surely isnt just for the greatest players to
> > ever
> > > play on the field.... I could go on there are
> > > more....
> >
> > They are all in because of their contributions
> to
> > the nfl in their fields were deemed exceptional
> or
> > impactful to the development of the league.
>
>
> Sure there are guys in the HOF for numerous reason
> and not all of them are related to them being the
> greatest players on the field..... I dont really
> care whether Tillman gets in or not, and I doubt
> he would have gave a shit either... Just making it
> clear the HOF inductees dont always corelate to
> them being the greatest football players on the
> field... They get in for a number of contributions
> outside of play on the field...

That's fine. But it's a broad correlation.

The guys you listed got in because of their contributions to the league were significant, be it on the field as a player or official, Orin the front office.

Tillman doesn't meet that level of impact on the nfl.

If we are putting him in because he quit to pursue a more noble calling and gave his life in the process, then someone should explain how that had a big impact on the NFL.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: April 23, 2014 10:36AM

People were saying that only the greatest players in history are in the HOF for what they did on the field and different variations... All I said was there are many people who did nothing on the field or were not the greatest NFL players of all time who are in the NFL... Where is the broad correlation? I could care less if Pat Tillman gets in the HOF... You are the one drawing the correlation, I am just stating facts about the HOF that it is not just great players who are inducted.... And the ideas behind the contributors who are in Inducted are indeed very broad factors... In my opinion no referee should ever been in the HOF, either should any owner but a few founding owners... But that is just my opinion, and I am sure everyone has different lines in the sand to draw on the issue... The video guy gets in as well, not in my book... But the HOF is broad not just players...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: April 23, 2014 11:41AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If Hugh (Shorty) Ray 1938-1952 -- Technical
> Advisor on Rules, Supervisor of Officials -
> National Football League, 1938-1952, Ed Sabol
> 1964-1995, and Charles W. Bidwill, Sr. 1933-1947
> -- Team Owner - Chicago Cardinals, 1933-1947, it
> surely isnt just for the greatest players to ever
> play on the field.... I could go on there are
> more....

***************************************************

You have a point, Crowder.

Maybe the NFL needs to clarify/change what constitutes a HOFer.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Date: April 23, 2014 01:22PM

Crowder makes a great point. Does the HOF mean contributions to the game or just on field performance?

I think Pat Tillman needs to go for what he didn't do. Fame and fortune didn't mean anything to him. Its a lesson 99% of the NFL could learn everytime they pass his Bust walking in the place.

Next year we get a roof and despite the shade.......a lot more sunshine blown up our asses!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: April 23, 2014 03:08PM

did you guys see the pat tillman story documentary? I think a lot of you guys have a misimpression that he was some gung ho jingoistic warrior. much more nuanced than that. I respect what he did but he should not be in the HOF and I am sure he would not want to be in there for the reasons some of you guys think he should be.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 23, 2014 03:56PM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> did you guys see the pat tillman story
> documentary? I think a lot of you guys have a
> misimpression that he was some gung ho jingoistic
> warrior. much more nuanced than that. I respect
> what he did but he should not be in the HOF and I
> am sure he would not want to be in there for the
> reasons some of you guys think he should be.


Yeah Berk. That was a very interesting piece.

Funny thing is after watching that documentary you can't help but come to the conclusion that Tillman would be the LAST person to want to see himself get into the HOF for any reason other than his contributions to the sport.

A very complicated and interesting person. It makes his loss that much more tragic.

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: April 24, 2014 12:57PM

I don't think Pat Tillman should be inducted into the HOF as a "member" of the HOF, because I agree I don't think he would want it... However I think it would be doing the NFL and Tillman an injustice if his story was not part of Canton and future generations did not learn of his sacrifice... That is the best way I can put it...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: April 24, 2014 01:32PM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder makes a great point. Does the HOF mean
> contributions to the game or just on field
> performance?
>
> I think Pat Tillman needs to go for what he didn't
> do. Fame and fortune didn't mean anything to him.
> Its a lesson 99% of the NFL could learn everytime
> they pass his Bust walking in the place.

****************************************************

LOL. The majority of today's pros couldn't learn any lesson like that if it hit them in the face. The only lesson they could learn is if it had a dollar sign hanging in front of it, and even then they would have problems.sad smiley

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: April 24, 2014 01:32PM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> they do, they have a wing honoring players who
> served their country. Give him a bust there.


That sounds good to me... And it would probably mean more to Tillman to be honored there anyways..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: April 24, 2014 01:38PM

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Crowder makes a great point. Does the HOF mean
> > contributions to the game or just on field
> > performance?
> >
> > I think Pat Tillman needs to go for what he
> didn't
> > do. Fame and fortune didn't mean anything to
> him.
> > Its a lesson 99% of the NFL could learn
> everytime
> > they pass his Bust walking in the place.
>
> **************************************************
> **
>
> LOL. The majority of today's pros couldn't learn
> any lesson like that if it hit them in the face.
> The only lesson they could learn is if it had a
> dollar sign hanging in front of it, and even then
> they would have problems.sad smiley


Tillman was a great american and deserves more then to be lumped in with some great football players... Being honored for his service and as a great american is way more special then any honor for contributions to a football league.... Guys like Tillman are much more special then anything that can be done on a football field...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Date: April 24, 2014 02:38PM


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Re: Chris Collinsworth
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: April 24, 2014 03:12PM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> captkoi Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Crowder makes a great point. Does the HOF
> mean
> > > contributions to the game or just on field
> > > performance?
> > >
> > > I think Pat Tillman needs to go for what he
> > didn't
> > > do. Fame and fortune didn't mean anything to
> > him.
> > > Its a lesson 99% of the NFL could learn
> > everytime
> > > they pass his Bust walking in the place.
> >
> >
> **************************************************
>
> > **
> >
> > LOL. The majority of today's pros couldn't
> learn
> > any lesson like that if it hit them in the
> face.
> > The only lesson they could learn is if it had a
> > dollar sign hanging in front of it, and even
> then
> > they would have problems.sad smiley
>
>
> Tillman was a great american and deserves more
> then to be lumped in with some great football
> players... Being honored for his service and as a
> great american is way more special then any honor
> for contributions to a football league.... Guys
> like Tillman are much more special then anything
> that can be done on a football field...


I agree with crowder 100 percent. Football is just a game. What these guys do to serve our country is much greater than a football game.


Can't compare.

Soldiers that fight for our freedom are just in another level of greatness compared to a pro hall of fame nfl player or any other sport.

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