The funniest part of the Wells report is this:

"By contrast to Incognito and Jerry, Mike Pouncey flatly denied hearing vulgar language used toward any individual at the Dolphins facility at any time. He said he never heard anyone make statements to Martin about having sex with his sister and commented, 'if someone said that to me I would punch them in the mouth.' In light of the overwhelming contrary evidence, including the statements of numerous other witnesses (including Incognito and Jerry), as well as text messages, we do not credit Pouncey's denials."

So Pouncey not only denied using vulgar language toward Martin, but denied ever hearing vulgar language in the locker room, directed at anyone, at any time.

When it comes to dealing with investigators, Pouncey is a true pro. Incognito and Jerry are simply not in his league.

an nfl locker room is not a normal work place. hearing people compare it to the corporate world is laughable.

the sissifying of society has reached it's ugly tentacles to the national football league.

Do we really want to teach players to start throwing punches when there is such a problem? Does that work? I was in a similar position once in high school), with an upperclassman treating me the same, and I decided to throw a punch. All I got was kicked off the team. I threw the first punch, no questions asked.... I was immediately dismissed.

Coaches failed me. The dolphin coaches failed their players too. They didn't step up and get involved and take responsibility.

I now own a business. Guess what? I got he same crap with a few of my employees. Being a leader includes some babysitting. Hate it, but that's reality. I stay involved and if one of my people gets physical with another, they get fired. Period.

FinFanNo1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Coaches failed me. The dolphin coaches failed
> their players too. They didn't step up and get
> involved and take responsibility.
>


Or its the same kind of Tom Foolery they have encountered for the last 40 yrs or so in Football lockerooms Until Martin Vagina showed up.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> an nfl locker room is not a normal work place.
> hearing people compare it to the corporate world
> is laughable.
>
> the sissifying of society has reached it's ugly
> tentacles to the national football league.


Its all about money.

The NFL is HUGE business. Its going to have to be more corporate in its approach because the penalties in lawsuits for failing to do so are enormous.

Almost all of this is blown out of proportion by taking it out of the context of an NFL locker room and a "friendship" between NFL players. And it looks 10X worse than it was because its written through the prism of a corporate lawyer.

At least, the coaches should have never let this go on for any amount of time. They should have never drafted him or at least dismissed Martin (traded or released him) as soon as they saw he didn't fit the mold or wasn't going to fit in with the rest of the players. But DONT sit on your hands and let it get outta control.

This is what happens when leadership doesn't take prompt action. I lost a lot of respect for Turner and Philbin. Never really had any for Martin. Incognito? Love his demeanor on the field. I respect him but recognize that if he's playing for me I gotta keep a short chain on him... And he may not work out because he has trouble controlling himself and doesn't make good decisions as demonstrated by his history.... But I love his demeanor on the field.

The Truth wrote:
> looks 10X worse than it was because its written
> through the prism of a corporate lawyer.

I like that. Well put.

I spent a career in the military. Harassment, bullying, intimidating, name calling, happens but is not condoned. In the military we are combatants, while some are in support roles to the warriors, the warriors are there to be tough, smart and be able to kill and destroy the enemy. It's also different than the corporate workplace setting, yet, no one, and I mean no one, should accept, condone, turn a blinded eye to bad behavior directed at others.

Even in the officer corps there are those that "want to intimidate." It happens in the academies. It's part of the "culture." Nonsense. It's bull.

What is at stake in the military is that a serviceman or woman makes themselves available to be put in harms way. There's a level of trust that must be formed in every unit to make the team function effectively. Bullying between fighting men is contrary to good order and discipline. It happens but is contrary to military law.

After reading the Wells Report, I am of the opinion that, the atmosphere in the Dolphins locker room was adverse to developing a strong and effective trust between players that showed itself on the field with poor and often lackluster play. The leadership of Incognito, Pouncey and Jerry was abysmal and none of they should be playing for the Dolphins, period.

The locker room was pubescent in mentality. There was no leadership at the player level and hardly any with several coaches.

This is a terrible embarrassment in every way.

Treasurecoast--you are entitled to your opinion which I disagree with completely on this topic.

it may not be condoned but it is overlooked, colonel, because the military is not your normal coroporate work place. and when there is a problem it's handled in house.

not everyone is cut out for the military and they try to find that out quickly. i don't agree with all their methods but i understand it and i understand it's not in their best interest passing along some weakling knowing they may have to count on him having their back.

it's no comparison, none, to corporate life.

well since the wells report has been released i think it's time to put it in the rear veiw mirror and move forward.

the major players in all of this will be gone.

Ireland, the guy that had the sack to ask Dez Bryant if his mom was a hooker didn't do his research on martin. not knowing he had mental issues and pissing away a 2nd rounder on him was a mistake. He's gone.

Incognito - gone

Jerry - gone

Turner - should be fired

Pouncy - not going anywhere becuase he's a good center. should get suspended for a game.

Martin - should be released immediately

Philbin - even though exonerated in the report, has the stench of this entire mess all over him. He may not have been approached by Martin directly, it's his team...his staff that he assembled. He should have known. He and his entire staff should be fired.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2014 08:22AM by jsm08.

colonel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I spent a career in the military. Harassment,
> bullying, intimidating, name calling, happens but
> is not condoned. In the military we are
> combatants, while some are in support roles to the
> warriors, the warriors are there to be tough,
> smart and be able to kill and destroy the enemy.
> It's also different than the corporate workplace
> setting, yet, no one, and I mean no one, should
> accept, condone, turn a blinded eye to bad
> behavior directed at others.
>
> Even in the officer corps there are those that
> "want to intimidate." It happens in the
> academies. It's part of the "culture." Nonsense.
> It's bull.
>
> What is at stake in the military is that a
> serviceman or woman makes themselves available to
> be put in harms way. There's a level of trust that
> must be formed in every unit to make the team
> function effectively. Bullying between fighting
> men is contrary to good order and discipline. It
> happens but is contrary to military law.
>
> After reading the Wells Report, I am of the
> opinion that, the atmosphere in the Dolphins
> locker room was adverse to developing a strong and
> effective trust between players that showed itself
> on the field with poor and often lackluster play.
> The leadership of Incognito, Pouncey and Jerry was
> abysmal and none of they should be playing for the
> Dolphins, period.
>
> The locker room was pubescent in mentality. There
> was no leadership at the player level and hardly
> any with several coaches.
>
> This is a terrible embarrassment in every way.
>
> Treasurecoast--you are entitled to your opinion
> which I disagree with completely on this topic.


Thank you for supporting my opinion as I support yours. And thank you for your service.

However this is where I differ. I of course DO NOT condone Bulling in any way shape or form. However I believe to my core Bullying did not happen in anyway shape of form. Its a term coined by Martin and his camp to disguise his bad Play. No way a 330 pound 24 yr old Male is so afraid, so shaking in his boots that he can't approach anyone or just stand up on his own. In order to get to the NFL you have to be of strong mind and sprit. Somehow (Jeff Ireland you SO J Martin fell through the cracks and then this is what you get. A whiny crying victim of nothing else but his own short comings.

Bullying is for people who hold power over someone , be it stronger or just a place of authority. Martin could have stood up at anytime. How were the Dolphins to know at this level of Professional sports , a person with Martins limited level of maturity got through the doors?


This whole mess was further flamed by a media wishing ill will on the Dolphins. Everything was taken out of context. At this point do what you need to. Fire whoever. Lets just move on already. But I can't support this Team with J Martin on it in any way shape or form.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

One opinion I develloped from the report was that neither Marton or his family had an agenda. Martin came here to play football. One of my first questions was why were they treating him like a rookie his second year? It was time to play football. Reading the report Martin fought w/ the tools he had. We may not like it but he did what had to do. Incog & Pouncey are two really big c*nts. They would not be on my roster.

You guys are saying that to be in an NFL locker room you must act like a thug or gangster really? Tinm Tebow did not nor do other players in fact Peyton Manning is a choir boy. I think it is very reflective of the team if the players screw with each other so bad that it affects their play and attitude on and off the field. Not every one can be a thug just too make it in the league. Respect for all players and their back grounds must be upheld. Martin grew up differently so many other children that should have no bearing on if they can play football or not.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Philbin - even though exonerated in the report,
> has the stench of this entire mess all over him.
> He may not have been approached by Martin
> directly, it's his team...his staff that he
> assembled. He should have known. He and his entire
> staff should be fired.

And you don't see a BIT of inconsistency in your dogging my posts calling for his firing, which included on the basis of being totally clueless of the lockerroom atmosphere leading to bullygate.

FinFanNo1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> At least, the coaches should have never let this
> go on for any amount of time. They should have
> never drafted him or at least dismissed Martin
> (traded or released him) as soon as they saw he
> didn't fit the mold or wasn't going to fit in with
> the rest of the players. But DONT sit on your
> hands and let it get outta control.
>
>
it is worse than that. Ireland looked at martin in the offseason (when he apparently spoke of/attempted suicide) and said "that's our LT--we don't need no plan B!!!"

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys are saying that to be in an NFL locker
> room you must act like a thug or gangster really?
> Tinm Tebow did not nor do other players in fact
> Peyton Manning is a choir boy. I think it is very
> reflective of the team if the players screw with
> each other so bad that it affects their play and
> attitude on and off the field. Not every one can
> be a thug just too make it in the league. Respect
> for all players and their back grounds must be
> upheld. Martin grew up differently so many other
> children that should have no bearing on if they
> can play football or not.

I guess unless you are gay, then your background is the devil's work and you can't expect it to be tolerated in the locker room (but it's OK if you beat your wife, kill dogs, rape chicks, murder and/or obstruct justice, and run folks down while drunk---de bible is cool wit all dat!!)

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You guys are saying that to be in an NFL locker
> room you must act like a thug or gangster really?
> Tinm Tebow did not nor do other players in fact
> Peyton Manning is a choir boy. I think it is very
> reflective of the team if the players screw with
> each other so bad that it affects their play and
> attitude on and off the field. Not every one can
> be a thug just too make it in the league. Respect
> for all players and their back grounds must be
> upheld. Martin grew up differently so many other
> children that should have no bearing on if they
> can play football or not.




Once again your taking this out of context. Tebow and Peyton Manning are not Lineman. DIFFERENT WORLD. You come out fighting /pushing/ dominating every goddamn snap of the game. Of practice, you fight fight fight. Chances are they will play differently then a QB who has a much different perspective on the game. This ain't flag Football of Kids Pee Wee. You push, punch your way for any edge you can get at this level. Martin wasn't cutting it. I don't want Polite Lineman EVER. I don't want my team respecting the opponents EVER.
Somewhere else people were comparing this to a corporate office. Really?

This is why we need secrets. Because the average public can't handle it. They just don't have a clue about what it takes to play and survive in the NFL.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

did anyone ever ask incog what he would have done if Martin had asked him to stop and told him the constant "harassment" was making him nuts?
I am sure INcog would have said he would have stopped (and it probably would have been a lie but who knows) but I read a lot (not all) of the 144 page report and accounts of it and I don't see this question was ever asked.
To me that is key--as the report concludes that there was no ill intent in the harassment of Martin (in the sense of trying to get him to quit, or motivated by race, etc), then it really seems to me to be a misunderstanding that Incog did not know that this was affecting Martin the way it was but thought this was just harmless teasing. It is possible that if Martin had just told him to stop, this would have ended (i.e. Jerry stood up for himself re the same 10k "fine" imposed on Martin for not going on the vegas trip and nothing happened and he wasn't "made" to pay).
But no one saw fit to ask that question, because to do so puts the onus on Martin, a 300+ pound college educated adult--to take some ownership of the problems he was facing, and we can't have that now, for it would be "blaming the victim."
much easier to just blame someone else.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.