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          Here you go would you draft this player
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Current Page: 6 of 7
Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: February 22, 2014 07:30AM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed about team harmony Truth (or lack there
> of). John Jurkovich is a sports radio guy in
> Chicago, he recounted on air once, how Mark
> Brunell would strongly favor players with similar
> religous beliefs, that many people from differing
> back grounds would NEVER see eye to eye on
> everything.
>
> And the locker room naked thing, players walk
> around doing interviews butt ass naked in front of
> men and women reporters/camera guys, I'm sure some
> of those people are gay and it doesn't seem to
> affect anybody.
>
> As a side note, Jurko also tells a funny story
> about throwing up a red alchohol/punch mix on
> Marinos nice white carpet when he was a practice
> squad player his rookie year.


Yeah 'holic. Its just not a big deal. If you are uncomfortable with the idea of a gay teammate objectifying you, then don't shower with him and don't walk around naked in front of him. Its the players choice to put on clothes or not.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2014 08:58AM by THE Truth.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: February 22, 2014 08:52AM

The truth is some players are going too say their cool with gay players because they might not want the scrutiny that comes with be labeled a homo phoebe.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: February 22, 2014 08:59AM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The truth is some players are going too say their
> cool with gay players because they might not want
> the scrutiny that comes with be labeled a homo
> phoebe.


The truth is that if he helps teams win games and doesn't embarrass himself in the locker room, nobody will give a shite if he's gay.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: February 22, 2014 09:11AM

Truth we can agree too disagree. Man how the times have changed.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: February 22, 2014 09:32AM

Lets say the Dolphins draft him, we have players like Wallace and Pouncey who have either made homophobic tweets or been accused of making homophobic comments... There are also other players on other teams who have made similar homophobic tweets at in the past, so it is not just our team... back to the point

How does that go? Does Wallace sit down, apologize and talk to Sam about it? Do they ignore it? Does the team address it... Do players just make nice superficially when in reality they still have issues with it? That is a reality of some type of process that is going to have to take place with certain players, especially if he is drafted by us or another team that has had outspoken players on this issue in the past... And just because players were not outspoken about it in the past, doesn't mean there might be many who feel similar as Wallace, but didn't make it public..

I kind of think his play on the field is going to dictate a lot of how it goes... For instance if the guy is a beast and helps the team, it should be easy for him... Just like J Martin, had he played like a 2nd rd pick and been a dominant tackle, he probably doesn't have any problems in our locker room... But when you don't play well, your team mates by nature are going to be harsher on you.. IF a player is injured in our locker room he was purposely "cast out" so to speak from the rest of the team. It should be interesting how it all plays out... But I can assure you which ever team drafts him, will be very tight lipped about any of that process which goes down in the locker room...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: February 22, 2014 09:33AM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth we can agree too disagree.

Absolutely. There's rooms for all types of people and opinions on chat boards, in locker rooms, and in society in general.

Of course that doesn't mean we are both right...winking smiley

> Man how the
> times have changed.

Things are always changing shady. People either evolve and advance (individually and as a society) or they get left behind.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: February 22, 2014 09:54AM

I ultimately believe in the human spirit, and once team mates who may disagree or not understand Sam, talk and relate to him on a personal level, players will find a bond with him... It is easy to depersonalize the human spirit when we label or generalize each other in any manner, oh he is gay or he is a liberal or tbagger,etc... But at the end of the day we are all much more similar then we realize despite our differing philosophies or orientations... We are all human beings with wants, desires, fears, insecurities, etc. We are all connected by the human spirit which IMO is inherently good for the most part... That is what will ultimately prevail with Sam IMO... He could really be a tremendous catalyst to bring a team together once they get past all of this other generalization crap and if the media leaves him alone... And allows him to be defined by more then just a generalization based on his sexual orientation.. But if he isn't very good on the field, that is going to greatly complicate the matter. That is the only hiccup in how this will all play out... Because athletes, NFL athletes at that are extremely competitive... And that competitive nature can sometimes outweigh the good inside people IMO...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: February 22, 2014 09:57AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lets say the Dolphins draft him, we have players
> like Wallace and Pouncey who have either made
> homophobic tweets or been accused of making
> homophobic comments... There are also other
> players on other teams who have made similar
> homophobic tweets at in the past, so it is not
> just our team... back to the point


So what?


>
> How does that go? Does Wallace sit down, apologize
> and talk to Sam about it? Do they ignore it? Does
> the team address it... Do players just make nice
> superficially when in reality they still have
> issues with it? That is a reality of some type of
> process that is going to have to take place with
> certain players, especially if he is drafted by us
> or another team that has had outspoken players on
> this issue in the past...


That makes about as much sense as me apologizing to my new girlfriend for all the jokes about bad Asian drivers I might have told before I met her.

Sam will judge them based on how they treat him.




> And just because players
> were not outspoken about it in the past, doesn't
> mean there might be many who feel similar as
> Wallace, but didn't make it public..



They are entitled to feel however they want. They aren't entitled to act on those feelings, especially without consequences.

>
> I kind of think his play on the field is going to
> dictate a lot of how it goes... For instance if
> the guy is a beast and helps the team, it should
> be easy for him... Just like J Martin, had he
> played like a 2nd rd pick and been a dominant
> tackle, he probably doesn't have any problems in
> our locker room... But when you don't play well,
> your team mates by nature are going to be harsher
> on you..


Very true.


>IF a player is injured in our locker room
> he was purposely "cast out" so to speak from the
> rest of the team. It should be interesting how it
> all plays out... But I can assure you which ever
> team drafts him, will be very tight lipped about
> any of that process which goes down in the locker
> room...

Sam can thank Johnathan Martin for making his transition easier.

Every team is going to have to adapt a zero tolerance policy for discriminatory behavior and speech.

I doubt there will be one locker room in the league where he would have a hard time fitting in if he can produce on the field.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: February 22, 2014 10:40AM

Man I don't understand your comments about either people change or get left behind are we colonizing another planet or the moon? I would rather be left behind then accept a life style that is prohibited in most of the major religions. Again two differing points of view on a most complicated issue.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: February 22, 2014 10:51AM

That's because you are at the beginning of it from a standpoint of time, Finshady. Fifty years from now this won't even be an issue.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: February 22, 2014 11:03AM

Really Chyren 50 years from now I still be alive and gay people still won't be totally accepted because while you can liberalize this country try doing it in Moscow or the middle east ain't happening my friend.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: February 22, 2014 11:21AM

I was thinking that 50 years was too long. Probably 10 years. And the reason you see that in the Middle East and Moscow is because they are considered "backwards".

Look at all the flak they are getting for it.

And the "Middle East", they also force women to wear burkas and cover themselves up and they ALSO BELIEVE THAT if a woman gets raped, her father and brothers should stone her to death. Is THAT something you also support?????????????????

I don't think you do, Finshady. So it's best to watch who or where you go to for support of your positions.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: February 22, 2014 11:23AM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Man I don't understand your comments about either
> people change or get left behind are we
> colonizing another planet or the moon?


Study the history of mankind.

We continuously evolve as a species (even if you don't believe in evolution) with regards to how we interact with each other. One time societal norms like slavery, or easy access to harmful drugs, or women not being able to own property or vote, have all have changed as mankind learns, grows and evolves.

A thousand years ago people wanted a strong king to rule them. Now everyone wants a say in gov't. You have revolutions all over the world where people are tired of being left out of the process.

Things change.

Either you adapt to the changes and embrace them or you get left behind.

There were many other religions before Christianity, Islam and Judaism. When mankind evolved beyond the needs of those religions, other belief structures were developed to take their places.


> I would
> rather be left behind then accept a life style
> that is prohibited in most of the major religions.

That will happen. Its staggering that your faith doesn't allow you to accept the existence of someone else who is different from you and whose existence has no impact on you, your religion or your ability to live your life as you see fit.

That's called "intolerance". You'll find that the majority of folks in educated societies aren't fond of intolerance.




> Again two differing points of view on a most
> complicated issue.


A fascinating topic to discuss. And I give you kudos for being able to do so without getting defensive or emotional.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: February 22, 2014 11:42AM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really Chyren 50 years from now I still be alive
> and gay people still won't be totally accepted
> because while you can liberalize this country try
> doing it in Moscow or the middle east ain't
> happening my friend.


50 years ago, Moscow was the center of a totalitarian, communist government that didn't even tolerate religion.

For the last 30 years its been a democracy. Give them time...most changes don't happen over night. It took us nearly a century to get rid of slavery. Besides, the people running that gov't today were raised under the old communist regime. In 50 years they will all be dead and the country will evolve again under new leadership.

The middle east is different. Most of those countries are theocracies, at least behaviorally. The have Royal families who govern but the real power lies with the religious leaders.

They are running their countries and lives of their citizens based on a religion that hasn't evolved in 1,400 years.

I'm not sure that is an example you, or any other religion should want to emulate.

Fundamentalism is a scary thing in ANY religious context.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: February 22, 2014 11:56AM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was thinking that 50 years was too long.
> Probably 10 years. And the reason you see that in
> the Middle East and Moscow is because they are
> considered "backwards".
>
> Look at all the flak they are getting for it.
>
> And the "Middle East", they also force women to
> wear burkas and cover themselves up and they ALSO
> BELIEVE THAT if a woman gets raped, her father and
> brothers should stone her to death. Is THAT
> something you also support?????????????????
>
> I don't think you do, Finshady. So it's best to
> watch who or where you go to for support of your
> positions.


Chyren, you take a lot of flak on this board, especially from me, but that is one of the best posts I think i've ever read from yousmileys with beer
I quoted it because I think Truth would even agree

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: February 22, 2014 12:08PM


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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: February 22, 2014 02:07PM

I will say that the arguments made on this board stating that gays will be totally accepted in society in what number of years is a liberal media driven point of view. I will stick too my position that it will never ever be totally accepted. Many regular folks think like me, but are scared too admit because the thought police could be listening, and watching. African Americans don't like it, and they are considered a minority of their own. My point is you guys are thinking like has nothing too do with religion when it does entirely.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: February 22, 2014 02:23PM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I will say that the arguments made on this board
> stating that gays will be totally accepted in
> society in what number of years is a liberal media
> driven point of view. I will stick too my
> position that it will never ever be totally
> accepted. Many regular folks think like me, but
> are scared too admit because the thought police
> could be listening, and watching. African
> Americans don't like it, and they are considered a
> minority of their own. My point is you guys are
> thinking like has nothing too do with religion
> when it does entirely.


You are confusing the terms "accepted" and "embraced".

Fundamentalists of any religion, be it Christianity, Judaism, or Islam will NEVER embrace homosexuality let alone treat them as equals. Their strict interpretation of their religious texts won't allow it.

But that doesn't mean Religious people won't come to ACCEPT that gay's exist and that they, as human beings, have the same rights as everyone else...even if in their eyes gay's are damned to hell.


10 years ago half the people in this country were strongly against gay marriage like you are.

today, that's down to 30% and nearly 60% are actually IN FAVOR of it.


In another 20 years, there will be only a small fraction of people, made up of the religious conservatives in this country, who are still against it. They will never change. The just won't be part of shaping the direction the country moves in at that point. its what I meant before when I said we either evolve or get left behind.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2014 03:20PM by THE Truth.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: February 22, 2014 02:47PM

In 20 years this country will become more conservative my friend you are wrong once again. we will rise up and take back our country from those who want to fundamentally change it. Freedom is not free when you force corrupted change on the masses.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: February 22, 2014 03:26PM

Freedom isn't free. Freedom costs a buck o five.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: February 22, 2014 03:38PM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In 20 years this country will become more
> conservative my friend you are wrong once again.
> we will rise up and take back our country from
> those who want to fundamentally change it.
> Freedom is not free when you force corrupted
> change on the masses.


When you have to "rise up" you are enforcing your beliefs on the majority.

In this country, that's not even on the same planet as the definition of the word "freedom".

Live and let live Shady. That's what this place is all about.

If you want to accomplish that revolution you'll need to do it by convincing people that your position is the right one. You can't force them to embrace your position, and you won't convince them if your only argument is that the words written by men, hundreds of years after the events they describe took place, are the strict Word of God. You are going to need more than that.


Don't get me wrong. You are certainly free to believe that if you like. That's what freedom is all about. And its freedom's like that, which make this the greatest country on the planet, and in all of human history.

The problem with your statement is that as much as this nation has swung against the position you hold overall, its even worse for you when it comes to young people. 70% of the people born after 1980 are in favor of same sex marriage. In 20 years they will be running the world. The only way you dial back the clock on this issue is with a gun, and that's contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ that you'd be damning yourself to hell just by doing it.

The tooth paste is out of the tube on this one Shady. Short of a total collapse of human society, this one's "all over but the shouting".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2014 03:44PM by THE Truth.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: February 22, 2014 03:40PM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Freedom isn't free. Freedom costs a buck o five.


in my area its "two fity"

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: February 22, 2014 04:02PM


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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: February 22, 2014 04:06PM

Only a woman is allowed to touch me there

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: February 22, 2014 04:29PM

The churches in this country tell me that I'm right once again you people don't get that gays are against the teachings of almighty God. what blithering intolerant people you are for not under standing that going against the teaching of our creator plays into the hands of Lucifer himself. He is sitting back laughing at all of you who make excuses for those who have fallen under his spell of deceit. Lucifer is king of this world, and many of you are too blind too even know that much.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: February 22, 2014 04:41PM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The churches in this country tell me that I'm
> right once again you people don't get that gays
> are against the teachings of almighty God. what
> blithering intolerant people you are for not under
> standing that going against the teaching of our
> creator plays into the hands of Lucifer himself.
> He is sitting back laughing at all of you who make
> excuses for those who have fallen under his spell
> of deceit. Lucifer is king of this world, and
> many of you are too blind too even know that much.

aaaannnndddd...."boom goes the dynamite."

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: February 22, 2014 05:05PM

The truth shall never set you free because you are a hopeless case.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: February 22, 2014 05:54PM

Finshady, it sounds to me more like Satan to try to convince you to hate. In my Bible, Jesus was all about love, not hate.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: February 23, 2014 05:16AM

Whatever man.

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Re: Here you go would you draft this player
Date: February 23, 2014 06:20AM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really Chyren 50 years from now I still be alive
> and gay people still won't be totally accepted
> because while you can liberalize this country try
> doing it in Moscow or the middle east ain't
> happening my friend.


So move there then. Really? You want to use those two backward places an an example? You actually made our case. Do you believe in 40 Virgins and Jihad as well? confused smiley

Michael Sam has showed interest in the Miami Dolphins as we all knew he would. Dolphins are the only Team with PR issues and something to prove. The NFL wants this to happen as well so it most likely will.

I couldn't care about his sex life I was just really looking forward to a drama free season. Not going to happen if we draft him.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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