Thanks Chyrene, I post from a phone , or sometimes as I'm off on the side of the road taking a break at work. Typos happen often, glad you got my drift.

I measure a man by what he does, his sprit , what he accomplishes , or more importantly how hard he TRIES to accomplish. I've worked with some officers that had the ability to become so much more. And others that physically were not but had the heart of a champion. I'd take 5'7" heart and soul next to me on a call then some 6'6" lazy piece of shit any day of the week. I would certainly give Michael Sam the chance to show he has the heart to be a great player here. But leave the Drama at the door. Don't give the press a show . just put your head down and work.

I don't want to see him out on the town in a convertible Ferrari hold hands with a dude. I don't want him looking like Dennis Rodman. Just be normal for your stay in the NFL do what you do privately and make it about the NFL. That would earn my respect and go along way for others IMO.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2014 06:45AM by TreasurecoastPhinsfan.

This kid is going to do what is best for him. He did what was best for himself and his team at MIZZOU and it worked. Some people will always judge what he does as a distraction. If he shows up w/ his dude like Tanne did with his wife folks will go crazy. Its not him its the idiots judging on what he should do w/ his life.

Whatever he does has nothing to do w/ my life he has his I have mine.

mizzou- I would be more inclined to believe what your are preaching, if you yourself actually practiced it... You are good at preaching but not so good at living your own words... So I am going to have to call BS on what your are preaching....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

cshashaty Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The keys for Michael Sam to realize success in the
> NFL:
> 1) Be a good player, and
> 2) Be professional.
>
> I suspect #1 will be harder for Sam, but his
> teammates will have a harder time with him re #2.
> They'll question his focus in an intimate
> environment such as the locker room.

******************************************

Not quite following you, cshashaty.

Why would it be hard for Sam on either count?

He already is a good player (SEC co-defensive player of the year). He has the personality to be professional, both on the field and in the locker room. His teammates at Mizzou already knew about him being gay and there were no problems.

He, himself, would not be a problem; it would be those who are unable to accept him for what he is that would have the problem(s).

Hey if you don't want to bring attention to yourself the why come out? He could of played in the NFL, and no one would of known his sexuality accept a select few. I don't care Sam is gay it's his business, but when you come out on national TV you make it every sports fan business as well. I like brunettes perhaps I should of told my employer before he hired me. Why volunteer info that is personal? It's no ones business,until you make it public.

Cap, I think what Chris was saying was that although you may be all-conference, that is not the same as All-American. and even all-Americans are likely to be just average in the pros.

He was not putting the guy down but he was saying that as far as projected ability in the pros is concerned, he is not graded as high as that Samoan guy from Notre Dame last year that had all that drama behind the fake non-existent girlfriend. His name has slipped my mind for the moment.

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hey if you don't want to bring attention to
> yourself the why come out? He could of played in
> the NFL, and no one would of known his sexuality
> accept a select few. I don't care Sam is gay it's
> his business, but when you come out on national TV
> you make it every sports fan business as well. I
> like brunettes perhaps I should of told my
> employer before he hired me. Why volunteer info
> that is personal? It's no ones business,until you
> make it public.


why does this bother you so much? do you get this worked up that wife beaters and dog killers and drunk drivers are playing in the league? or people who are constantly talking about their religion? that too should be no one's business by your line of thinking. somehow I doubt and if so I wonder why? you also seem to have a problem with a certain "type" of QB and constantly rail about that too....

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

WestCoastDolFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can't believe the stupidity show on this board.
> The comments expressed here just outrageous.
> Finshady, this is directed at you. Gay me are
> EXACTLY like straight men. The only difference is
> in the sexual attraction which makes no difference
> in who the man is or what he does. I can't believe
> the homophobia that permeates this forum. I feel
> sorry for each one of you. I will not be visiting
> this site anymore. This place makes me sick.


Tolerance can not be preached or practiced by being intolerant....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I watched the clip, and the announcer doesn't make any sense. Being gay is not accepted by half or more of this country. While neither were any of the others actions, hell but loving the same sex that is a Biblical offense, and that's why in a still deeply religious country it will never ever be truly accepted. Love the sinner, and hate he sin.

well being black is not accepted by a good percentage of the country. so what? should we "respect" their wishes?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well being black is not accepted by a good
> percentage of the country. so what? should we
> "respect" their wishes?


You can't argue with people who take the bible literally Berk, there's just no room for rational thought when its all spelled out for you already.

Of course, there are VERY few people in the world who actually take every word in the bible literally. But at least those few are morally consistent. Most of the people who use religious arguments against gay people are hypocrites who pick and choose the parts of the bible that fit their world view and ignore those that don't.

Religion is a good thing, and some of you on this board should try it. Being black can't be compared to being gay that makes no sense really.

ok then I suppose you are anti-divorced people and all the other things the bible denounces as a "sin" and just not the one thing you don't have to worry about because you were born straight (I am assuming)

and how is condemning someone just for for being gay different than condemning him for being black?

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

WestCoastDolFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mind his own business? Really Ken? Want a
> moronic statement. The posts here are very comical
> and very sad. Do you guys really think that just
> because he's gay he is a threat in the showers?
> Don't flatter yourselves. Gay men rarely hit on
> straight men in public showers.


RE: Exactly, he needs to mind his own business...and by that I mean that he needs to do his job, and leave the sexual orientation at home. And the OTHER players need to do that as well. They are there to do a job not to pursue or satisfy other agenda's. It's no ones business really who he sleeps with or is attracted to. Just as its no one's business who the straight guys are with or trying to get with either.

I personally don't care that he's gay as long as he can play football and help the team get better. If he can do that I'm all for him being on my team. I'm not bashing the guy at all so get a grip.

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Religion is a good thing,

I agree.



> and some of you on this
> board should try it.

Most do, even if its not the same ultra conservative approach yours seems to take.


> Being black can't be
> compared to being gay that makes no sense really.

Only if you are ignorant of the history of black people in this country.

Going back to the beginning of slavery, white people in this country used religion to claim blacks were an inferior sub species of humanity. That they were animals, incapable of intelligent thought and that they didn't deserve the same rights that our constitution grants to everyone else.

Even after the end of the civil war, most of those rights were denied them due to ignorant stereotypes and outright hatred of them because they weren't "like us".

It took a century of mob lynchings, murders, beatings, rapes, church bombings, poll taxes, literacy tests, etc before this country started to turn the corner. It took another 50 years for us to get to the point that more than half the people in this great country would vote to elect a black man president.

Gay people in this country have been denied rights that their neighbors have enjoyed from the founding of this country. And they've been denied them for the same reasons blacks were: fear and ignorance, wrapped int he cloak of religious purity or zealotry.

Blacks have had a tougher road in this country for sure, but gays have walked a similar path when it comes to how they have been denied their civil rights by the extremely religious.


Being from another country you probably aren't aware that in America, the Rule of Law is supreme. We are not a theocracy. At least in theory, if not always in practice.

In another 25 years this won't be an issue. Sure there will be a segment of our society filled with extremism, religious fanaticism, and hate because their religious leaders tell them being gay is a sin. But the vast majority of young people in this country have no issues with gay people. When that generation runs this country, this will cease to be a debate.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok then I suppose you are anti-divorced people and
> all the other things the bible denounces as a
> "sin" and just not the one thing you don't have to
> worry about because you were born straight (I am
> assuming)
>
> and how is condemning someone just for for being
> gay different than condemning him for being black?


Because being gay is a CHOICE berk...duh...

Being black isn't. Unless you are a wannabe suburban white kid like Vanilla Ice, or an "honorary brotha" like Richie Incognito.

Don't you remember when you chose to be straight over being gay? Wasn't there a form you had to fill out or something....

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Cap, I think what Chris was saying was that
> although you may be all-conference, that is not
> the same as All-American. and even all-Americans
> are likely to be just average in the pros.
>
> He was not putting the guy down but he was saying
> that as far as projected ability in the pros is
> concerned, he is not graded as high as that Samoan
> guy from Notre Dame last year that had all that
> drama behind the fake non-existent girlfriend.
> His name has slipped my mind for the moment.

**********************************************

Chryen, Sam is already a good player; now it is up to him to show he can be a good player in the NFL. That was my point.

His second point was to be professional. I see nothing but professionalism coming from Sam; no reason for him to act otherwise.

With him coming out, he has a lot to prove, and I can guarantee he is going to give it his all.

The player you are thinking of is Mante Teo, who is now with the Chargers.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> berkeley223 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > well being black is not accepted by a good
> > percentage of the country. so what? should we
> > "respect" their wishes?
>
>
> You can't argue with people who take the bible
> literally Berk, there's just no room for rational
> thought when its all spelled out for you already.
>
> Of course, there are VERY few people in the world
> who actually take every word in the bible
> literally. But at least those few are morally
> consistent. Most of the people who use religious
> arguments against gay people are hypocrites who
> pick and choose the parts of the bible that fit
> their world view and ignore those that don't.

******************************************************

Asians can be lumped into that group, also, along with Latinos, etc.

It is the way of the world, guys!

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not quite following you, cshashaty.
>
> Why would it be hard for Sam on either count?
>
> He already is a good player (SEC co-defensive
> player of the year). He has the personality to be
> professional, both on the field and in the locker
> room. His teammates at Mizzou already knew about
> him being gay and there were no problems.
>
> He, himself, would not be a problem; it would be
> those who are unable to accept him for what he is
> that would have the problem(s).


Forget the college accolades: good in college doesn't guarantee good in the pros. Right now the draft gurus have him rated as a mid-round talent. Plus, he is out of position...he probably has to move to LB to play in the NFL. This is why I think it will be more challenging for him to prove he belongs on an NFL roster: it will be a numbers game so he'll probably have to find a way to contribute on STs in order to earn his keep while he tries to make the transition to LB.

As for being gay, I expect he will handle his business professionally. That will be easy, especially knowing his teammates will be skeptical.

Man I get accused of bigotry, but some of you on this board dislike those that don't share your same views. America is a very diverse country with many people of different opinions, and ethnicities, and racial make ups. That's the beauty of America. So let's just say I wish Sam the best in his upcoming NFL career, but he should know that it's going too be a bumpy ride. As I said before not all Americans will ever accept a gay person that is a fact rather you accept them or not.

FInshady, you should accept everybody regardless of race, sexuality, gender, etc... If you want people to be tolerant of your right to your views and opinions, you also need to be tolerant of others with differing views... When your views are to be intolerant of others, then how can you ask others to be tolerant of your views... it doesn't work... I agree that everyone has rights to different views on life. And all of those should be respected... We are all mere mortals...

As I said before, Tolerance can not be preached or practiced by being intolerant... And yes that knife cuts both ways...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

I go back to the bible, and what it says about gays. I am sorry however they can live under the law with respect to being able to have all the rights in the world except marriage. I am sorry that is where I draw the line. Call it civil union or a partnership or whatever, but not marriage.

I'm not getting into politics. The man can play football all he wants as long as he act professional and not like a POS cheese eating Rat like John Martin.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Treasure, did you have any involvement in the Kaitlin Hunt case?

The bible also says
Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I go back to the bible, and what it says about
> gays.

A few other things the bible is also against:

Eating pork
Tattoos
Trimming the corners of your beard
Getting divorced and remarried
Working on the sabbath
Women speaking in church
Any seafood without a fin and scales
premarital sex


Anybody in good standing on all those?

I'm not.


Of course all of those prohibitions are from the old testament which is pulled from the early Hebrew religious texts. And the old testament varies significantly from christian sect to christian sect.

In other words, different people pick and chose which message applies to them.

That seems odd...if its all the word of God...doesn't it?

Anyway, I'm a lapsed catholic. So I view Jesus as my savior, and since he never said one single word about homosexuals in the new testament I'm willing to cut them a break and not hold them to some standard established by Jewish laws in the millennium before Christ was born. Standards that a largely ignored by most Christians any way.



> I am sorry however they can live under the
> law with respect to being able to have all the
> rights in the world except marriage. I am sorry
> that is where I draw the line. Call it civil
> union or a partnership or whatever, but not
> marriage.


You draw the line at a word?

Its not like the marriage is recognized by the church. The state doesn't have the power to force a church to recognize stuff like that.

All it is is a legal definition that ensures that everyone gets the same treatment in the US under the law. It has NOTHING to do with religion. This makes even less sense than hating gays because the bible tells you to.

A Civil Union = marriage in the US if it grants the same rights. All you are saying that you are hung up on is the use of a word. Now that is silly.




Let me ask you a question Shady:

If God hates gays so much, why does he keep making so many of them?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/15/2014 04:33AM by THE Truth.

Truth your not going too like my answer. However the devil can influence many down the wrong path of life, and SIN. The devil wins when man lays with man and vice versa. So this might be too harsh for some of you however it is all up to how one interprets the definition of right and wrong, and sin and no sin. I am not saying Sam can't play in the league or even live a great life in this country. I am only saying that most Americans will never ever accept his life style no matter how great of a player he might become in the pros.

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Truth your not going too like my answer. However
> the devil can influence many down the wrong path
> of life, and SIN. The devil wins when man lays
> with man and vice versa.


Ok. So if I understand you correctly, the Devil tempts man with irresistible things that lead some down the wrong path in life and cause them to sin.

Here's my issue with that theory.

It implies that being gay is a choice. That the devil offered them something to tempting to pass up.

What's so tempting about same sex relationships that ANYONE would choose to be gay? You can't reproduce. Your equipment is designed to be compatible with the other team. In some countries, its a death sentence. In this country its a stigma with major financial and social costs.

I can't speak for you, but I know I've never looked at another dude and said: "wow, gotta get me some of that!".

I never had to choose between "the right path" and one that was equally as tempting but led to hell.

I never had to choose to be straight. I just was.

I'm guessing that it was the same for you, and for every straight person on this site. I bet none of you had a singular moment where you chose to be straight, where you considered being homosexual and decided "as tempting as that is, I'm passing on the meat popsicle and sticking with women."

So if its not a choice for you or I to be straight, then suggesting that people choose to be gay seems to be inconsistent at the very least. And suggesting that they choose to be gay because the devil tempts them with something straight people find gross seems like a bad way to rationalize something that doesn't fit a predetermined world view.

If all people are naturally straight, and all straight people find the idea of sex with a member of their gender to be unappealing, then where's the temptation from lucifer? How can you be tempted by something you don't like?

So if your position is accurate then people need to be created so they are predisposed towards being tempted by what is being offered to lead them astray. So why would God create a human who is predisposed to fail whatever tests he sends that persons way?




This is the part where folks on your side usually reply with: "We can't pretend to know what God's plans are"... or something similar.







> So this might be too
> harsh for some of you however it is all up to how
> one interprets the definition of right and wrong,
> and sin and no sin.


What's to interpret? Its either the word of God, or its not.

Either all of it is His word, or people are just making it up as they go.


I for one, am not giving up shrimp or bacon...or shrimp wrapped bacon. They are just too damn yummy.

And I'm not a big enough hypocrite to pick which rules in the bible I'm going to ignore while telling others which ones apply to them.

For that reason alone I'm leaning towards the bible a guide book more than a set of immutable rules and regulations.






> I am not saying Sam can't
> play in the league or even live a great life in
> this country. I am only saying that most
> Americans will never ever accept his life style no
> matter how great of a player he might become in
> the pros.


Actually, most Americans already accept his lifestyle. That's why you are seeing changes across the country with regards to allowing gay marriage and giving those unions the same legal rights as any other union recognized by the government.

As I said in an earlier post. When today's teenagers and college kids are running the country, this won't even be an issue for discussion. By then, there will only be a small minority of ultra conservative religious fundamentalists who will be arguing against equal treatment for gays and same sex marriages.