Well said. @#$%& Philben, @#$%& Sherman, @#$%& Coyle. I really want nee coaches.

I never wanted Philbin, and hate his offense. Clean house!

I think every single person is a joke on this team. I dont really care which one of the roving idiots gets fired but ross is basically saying this is ok to play this way. By 4pm today Philbin or sherman or coyle should be fired to prove a point and to stick to what he has been saying all year. The idiots run this asylum and it has to change.....NOW

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On another thread someone demanded that some
> assistant be fired. I replied that the one to
> fire was Philbin.
>
> I got this response.
>
> Re: Can we Please for Gods sake fire someone now??
> new
> Posted by: socalphin ()
> Date: December 22, 2013 04:44PM
>
> Philbin didn't pick these dogs#!T players did he?
>
> You guys are engaged in some kind of magical
> thinking.
>
> To you guys, the head coach IS RESPONSIBLE FOR
> NOTHING.
>
> To you, the GM picks the players.
>
> The offensive game is called by the OC
>
> The defensive game is called by the DC
>
> and when the right plays are called and failed the
> PLAYERS ARE RESPONSIBLE.
>
> At best you think all a head coach does is watch
> the practices.
>
> Wrong!!!!
>
> Let's take the last first. The Head Coach must
> not only watch the practices but evaluate the
> talent BOTH DEFENSE AS WELL AS OFFENSE.
>
> He is responsible for KNOWING the talents,
> capabilities, failings and soft spots OF BOTH THE
> STARTERS AND THE NON-STARTERS. From that he
> should know what offensive schemes will work with
> what players and what defensive scheme to use to
> maximum advantage.
>
> Working backwards, before the game he consults
> with the Defensive coordinator and reviews the
> upcoming opponent's offense and together they
> decide on a defensive scheme to employ IN THE NEXT
> GAME AGAINST THE OPPONENT.
>
> Next, also before the game he consults with the
> offensive coordinator and reviews the upcoming
> opponent's defensive capabilities and together
> they decide on the plays to be employed IN THE
> NEXT GAME AGAINST THE OPPONENT.
>
> The Head coach HAS THE LAST WORD when there are
> any disagreement between he and the coordinators
> as to what to employ.
>
> In crucial 4th down situations, he consults with
> the offensive coordinator as to what to do but he
> makes the decision.
>
> The same holds true for tense and important
> offensive plays by the opposing team.
>
> As far as the General Manager and selection of
> players, the General Manager is certainly the
> shopper but the Head Coach is the cook and tells
> the general manager what items to purchase from
> the supermarket. At best, that is done in
> consultation as well.
>
> Lastly, as to the players and their performances,
> as to weaknesses, such as Tanny holding the ball
> too long in the pocket or Daniel Thomas UNABLE TO
> KNOW HOW TO BLOCK FOR HIM, in other words, players
> making the same mistakes over and over again in
> the same situation, it is the HEAD COACH that has
> to have the COMMON SENSE to make substitutions.
>
> Also, he has to be able to recognize what talents
> his QB has and what talents his QB does NOT HAVE.
>
> Thus a head coach's responsibility are even
> greater than what Colonel and Cap indicate which
> is "the buck stops here." While true, a head
> coach is more than just a person who is ultimately
> responsible. One mistake is one thing but a
> pattern of mistakes, ANY PATTERN of mistakes THAT
> GO UNADDRESSED OR UNCORRECTED game after game,
> then it is the HEAD COACH AND THE HEAD COACH ALONE
> who is responsible.

**********************************************

Chryen, you are correct in your statements (above) as to what I am sure goes on with the Fins.

I mentioned it much earlier in the season that the coaching staff, Philbin specifically, has not "coached" the players and recognized and fully utilized the talent they have. Case in point - Philbin stuck with the OLine while watching his QB get killed. I questioned this tactic stating that the backups are that bad that Philbin can't switch the personnel? Look what happened when Incog and Martin were removed...the OL started to play much better (not including this last Bills game). Not saying this should be the starting OLine next year, but these guys were on the team all along and Philbin refused to play them. Yeah, I know McKennie came in late, but Incog and Martin were still playing when he came in. And Garner was recently picked up. What I am saying is that he did nothing until HE HAD TO. Look at the results now.

I am sure, although I am not privy to it, that Philbin tells Ireland what he needs for his team and Ireland goes out and gets the guys. But...if there is any disagreement, Ireland wins.

Yes, I agree with ya, Philbin has to get his head out of his ass and do what's best for this team. Personally, I would have to say that has not been done.

I've said it before, I doubt Philbin nor Ireland are going anywhere after the season, unless the NFL investigation shows something.

So, they will have another season to get the ship straight, and if they can't do it, then it is time to say goodbye.

I agree.

captkoi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > On another thread someone demanded that some
> > assistant be fired. I replied that the one to
> > fire was Philbin.
> >
> > I got this response.
> >
> > Re: Can we Please for Gods sake fire someone
> now??
> > new
> > Posted by: socalphin ()
> > Date: December 22, 2013 04:44PM
> >
> > Philbin didn't pick these dogs#!T players did
> he?
> >
> > You guys are engaged in some kind of magical
> > thinking.
> >
> > To you guys, the head coach IS RESPONSIBLE FOR
> > NOTHING.
> >
> > To you, the GM picks the players.
> >
> > The offensive game is called by the OC
> >
> > The defensive game is called by the DC
> >
> > and when the right plays are called and failed
> the
> > PLAYERS ARE RESPONSIBLE.
> >
> > At best you think all a head coach does is
> watch
> > the practices.
> >
> > Wrong!!!!
> >
> > Let's take the last first. The Head Coach must
> > not only watch the practices but evaluate the
> > talent BOTH DEFENSE AS WELL AS OFFENSE.
> >
> > He is responsible for KNOWING the talents,
> > capabilities, failings and soft spots OF BOTH
> THE
> > STARTERS AND THE NON-STARTERS. From that he
> > should know what offensive schemes will work
> with
> > what players and what defensive scheme to use
> to
> > maximum advantage.
> >
> > Working backwards, before the game he consults
> > with the Defensive coordinator and reviews the
> > upcoming opponent's offense and together they
> > decide on a defensive scheme to employ IN THE
> NEXT
> > GAME AGAINST THE OPPONENT.
> >
> > Next, also before the game he consults with the
> > offensive coordinator and reviews the upcoming
> > opponent's defensive capabilities and together
> > they decide on the plays to be employed IN THE
> > NEXT GAME AGAINST THE OPPONENT.
> >
> > The Head coach HAS THE LAST WORD when there are
> > any disagreement between he and the
> coordinators
> > as to what to employ.
> >
> > In crucial 4th down situations, he consults
> with
> > the offensive coordinator as to what to do but
> he
> > makes the decision.
> >
> > The same holds true for tense and important
> > offensive plays by the opposing team.
> >
> > As far as the General Manager and selection of
> > players, the General Manager is certainly the
> > shopper but the Head Coach is the cook and
> tells
> > the general manager what items to purchase from
> > the supermarket. At best, that is done in
> > consultation as well.
> >
> > Lastly, as to the players and their
> performances,
> > as to weaknesses, such as Tanny holding the
> ball
> > too long in the pocket or Daniel Thomas UNABLE
> TO
> > KNOW HOW TO BLOCK FOR HIM, in other words,
> players
> > making the same mistakes over and over again in
> > the same situation, it is the HEAD COACH that
> has
> > to have the COMMON SENSE to make substitutions.
> >
> > Also, he has to be able to recognize what
> talents
> > his QB has and what talents his QB does NOT
> HAVE.
> >
> > Thus a head coach's responsibility are even
> > greater than what Colonel and Cap indicate
> which
> > is "the buck stops here." While true, a head
> > coach is more than just a person who is
> ultimately
> > responsible. One mistake is one thing but a
> > pattern of mistakes, ANY PATTERN of mistakes
> THAT
> > GO UNADDRESSED OR UNCORRECTED game after game,
> > then it is the HEAD COACH AND THE HEAD COACH
> ALONE
> > who is responsible.
>
> **********************************************
>
> Chryen, you are correct in your statements (above)
> as to what I am sure goes on with the Fins.
>
> I mentioned it much earlier in the season that the
> coaching staff, Philbin specifically, has not
> "coached" the players and recognized and fully
> utilized the talent they have. Case in point -
> Philbin stuck with the OLine while watching his QB
> get killed. I questioned this tactic stating that
> the backups are that bad that Philbin can't switch
> the personnel? Look what happened when Incog and
> Martin were removed...the OL started to play much
> better (not including this last Bills game). Not
> saying this should be the starting OLine next
> year, but these guys were on the team all along
> and Philbin refused to play them. Yeah, I know
> McKennie came in late, but Incog and Martin were
> still playing when he came in. And Garner was
> recently picked up. What I am saying is that he
> did nothing until HE HAD TO. Look at the results
> now.
>
> I am sure, although I am not privy to it, that
> Philbin tells Ireland what he needs for his team
> and Ireland goes out and gets the guys. But...if
> there is any disagreement, Ireland wins.
>
> Yes, I agree with ya, Philbin has to get his head
> out of his ass and do what's best for this team.
> Personally, I would have to say that has not been
> done.
>
> I've said it before, I doubt Philbin nor Ireland
> are going anywhere after the season, unless the
> NFL investigation shows something.
>
> So, they will have another season to get the ship
> straight, and if they can't do it, then it is time
> to say goodbye.

**************************************

Oops, I meant Brenner, although Garner has started a few games, or like vs Buffalo, relieved Brenner and played the majority of the game. Garner has been with the team where Brenner was a late pickup.

But again, my point is once Philbin made the change on the OLine, things improved. He could have done this earlier in the season.

And a lot of people give him credit for basically cleaning up or reacting to the Igcog-Martin mess but they never think to ask themselves what responsibility he bears for either a) it happening on his watch and b) him not knowing or c) him knowing and not putting a stop to it before it got that far out of hand.

Guys we might be a really good team if we can only fix the Oline problem.


Then tweak some other spots LB, maybe another RB, another corner that plays to the level of grimes.

I know easier said than done. But i would spend a whole lot on the Oline next year both in the draft and free agency.

IMO we will be much more improved next year.

This cadence thing has been on going and I am afraid to say will probably continue. If I can see it and other folks see it (Cadence) You just know the opposing defensive coaches and players see it and adjust to it.

One has to remember that Tannehill does not have that much experience and could easily have developed bad habits, such
as the cadence give away.

Don't believe it, just note the sacks allowed and lack of a running game. If a defense is given that much of an edge over an offense, "Katy bar the door", here they come !!

Where there's smoke there is fire !!

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Guys we might be a really good team if we can only
> fix the Oline problem.

WHERE have I heard that before

Lol Ohhh. Hey Garner is starting Sunday might help a smidge.

so you guys are content with the current roster. new coaches will get it done.

is that what you're saying?

No I am saying a couple of peices and all new coaching should get it done. When players play good everywhere but here that translates too coaching. When a vet offensive tackle is the only guy mentioning our cadence problems its coaching. There is a ton of talent on this team, and to be where we are is purely coaching. To think otherwise is foolhardy and just shows lack of football knowledge.

Sickofit+1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No I am saying a couple of peices and all new
> coaching should get it done. When players play
> good everywhere but here that translates too
> coaching. When a vet offensive tackle is the only
> guy mentioning our cadence problems its coaching.
> There is a ton of talent on this team, and to be
> where we are is purely coaching. To think
> otherwise is foolhardy and just shows lack of
> football knowledge.


Your spot on IMO. We keep hearing about the 'guys off the street' and the 'busts' as if there is NO talent on this team. We heard the same about Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, etc, etc. It's the NFL, if you make it here you have talent to some degree. It's up to the managers,coaches and coordinators to USE the talent they have and to find guys WHO COMPLEMENT existing talent. For a decade we haven't found anyone who seems to know how to do that.

Sickofit+1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No I am saying a couple of peices and all new
> coaching should get it done. When players play
> good everywhere but here that translates too
> coaching. When a vet offensive tackle is the only
> guy mentioning our cadence problems its coaching.
> There is a ton of talent on this team, and to be
> where we are is purely coaching. To think
> otherwise is foolhardy and just shows lack of
> football knowledge.

OK mr football knowledge. So who do we replace and who do you want to coach?

I notice you didn't mention Ireland. So you're fine with him shopping for the groceries still? Now this is the same guy that just overpaid 2/3 of our LB corp and has been trying to assemble an oline for 5 years.

And 1 more question. Is 2yrs now the standard for first coaches to win it all?

Ireland was the person who got all that talent that is performing well on other clubs like Reggie Bush, who is getting the ball out in space instead of being told to run up the middle like he was Larry Csonka.

Ireland is a jerk and seeing him gone would not bother me but to impose the liability on him for this team's performance is wrong and does nothing but justify the feeling on a person who wants to play "avoidance" in his mind with the responsibility of the coaches.


As far as time is concerned, Sparano only got three. Do you draw the line at 2, Okay to fire him after 3 years but it is unconstitutional to do so after 2?

And please don't say I'm stalking you. When you express your views on this board, you should expect replies to them.

sparano was fired after week 14 of his 4th year.

Jam08, do not take things personal. I simply mean that everyone should by now be on the same page that our coaching is a huge issue for this team.

We have a QB that is close to 4000 yards (currently 3709) and a shot at 25 TD's (currently 23). And a team with a shot at going 9-7, first time with a winning record in a long time... Has everything been perfect? of course not.......but you getting look at that info and suggest our Head coach needs to be fired, you are not being realistic about our accomplishments, whether we make the play offs or not....

We do need to finish strong with a win and strong performance this week against the jets... 9-7 isn't the same as 8-8.... But our team either way has potential long term. If we deal with personnel problems in some key areas on both sides of the ball..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Sickofit+1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jam08, do not take things personal. I simply mean
> that everyone should by now be on the same page
> that our coaching is a huge issue for this team.

Whoa! I'm not taking things personally. I asked a simple question and you couldn't answer. You tried to flip it as me taking it personally.

Here's the thing. It's easy to point fingers, but difficult to offer viable solutions.

You like to take the easy route I see.

I find it amusing that some people here say "we let so and so go to another team, and they're performing great." The Reggie Bush comparison is a joke. He's on pace for just over 1,000 yards rushing this year (4.7 ypc), with 4 TDs. Last year with the Phins he had 986 rushing yards (4.3 ypc) with 5 TDs. Last year he had 292 receiving yards with 2 TDs, this year he has 473 receiving yards with 2 TDs. Very comparable production, especially since the Phins had a rookie QB and no Calvin Johnson last year. Bush also has more fumbles this year than last. But Mike Schwartz is a genius coach for using Reggie Bush in space, and Philbin is a bum that needs to be fired because he didn't know how to use Bush. Seriously?

On the other hand, we have a bunch of other teams' cast-offs, like Cam Wake, Randy Starks, Dimitri Patterson, Brent Grimes, Brandon Gibson, and even Mike Wallace that have performed great for the Phins. The decision to keep a player or let a player go is often based more on age and salary cap impact than ability.

that's funny.

so reggie is basically the same player this year as he was last.

He sat out some time due to injuries.

........................................

The Clown Show Continues



-

Our coaching could be worse and better. Biggest problem IMHO is Sherman. We should be running the two minute offense all game. When we run it, well that's when our offense normally clicks. Just takes a bunch of horrible play calling which we fall behind before he goes to it.

Anemone1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it amusing that some people here say "we
> let so and so go to another team, and they're
> performing great." The Reggie Bush comparison is
> a joke. He's on pace for just over 1,000 yards
> rushing this year (4.7 ypc), with 4 TDs. Last
> year with the Phins he had 986 rushing yards (4.3
> ypc) with 5 TDs. Last year he had 292 receiving
> yards with 2 TDs, this year he has 473 receiving
> yards with 2 TDs. Very comparable production,
> especially since the Phins had a rookie QB and no
> Calvin Johnson last year. Bush also has more
> fumbles this year than last. But Mike Schwartz is
> a genius coach for using Reggie Bush in space, and
> Philbin is a bum that needs to be fired because he
> didn't know how to use Bush. Seriously?
>
> On the other hand, we have a bunch of other teams'
> cast-offs, like Cam Wake, Randy Starks, Dimitri
> Patterson, Brent Grimes, Brandon Gibson, and even
> Mike Wallace that have performed great for the
> Phins. The decision to keep a player or let a
> player go is often based more on age and salary
> cap impact than ability.


First off, how many yards does Bush's replacement have for us this year in Miami? FYI it is nowhere near 1000 yards.........

Second, our system does not throw the ball enough to RBs out of the backfield.... Which we could have obviously used to help offset the pass rush, considering we gave up more sacks then any team in the history of this franchise.

Third, Reggie Bush isn't getting paid all that much..... His 1000 yards, would have had a great impact on this team had we kept him... A much greater positive impact then the negative impact his salary would have had on our cap situation...

I don't think Philbin should be fired, but Ireland letting Bush go did not have a positive impact on this team in any way.... Arguing it did just doesn't hold any weight at all... Had his replacement ran for 1000 yards and scored more TDs I could possibly buy it, but FYI, it didn't happen....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2013 11:21AM by Crowder52.

Bush wanted a multi-year deal, and he is older and has been injury prone. We would not have gotten an extra 1000 yards if we kept Bush; Miller has ~650 yards so far, so we would have gotten about an extra 300 yards all things being equal. But our O-line sucks this year even worse than last year, so I don't think Bush would have had equivalent production. The MO of the front office and coaching staff has been to get younger and cheaper, signing players to multi-year deals if they are still on the upswing of their careers, not down-swing. They built the team to be competitive this year, while being a potential SB contender next year and beyond.

Bush signed a 2 year deal in Detroit for about ten million, I don't think you can consider that a multiyear deal or big money...

300 yards of running yards, can clearly be a difference of a couple W's instead of losses...

Also we got rid of a lot of good leadership in the offense IMO, when we departed with Bush, Long, and Fasano.... That lack of leadership, IMO played a role in the mess that escalated farther then it should have, earlier in the year with Martin...

IMO the only reason to get rid of Bush was because he was stunting the progress of Miller... To me that didn't seem to be the case, when Miller took over the starting role... Miller doesn't have the vision or moves Bush had when in our backfield... Bush won games for us in his 2 years here, Miller never won any games for us this year that is for sure.....

Bush's rushing TD's most of them, were due to his unbelievable talent... They weren't 1st and goal from the 5 type of TDs...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche