I was originally all for signing Brown but now my thinking is this...

If you are going to pay Brown to be the highest priced center in the league, he darn well better be the best center in the league.

Now, there were 3 centers elected to the AFC Pro Bowl squad this year and Brown wasn't one of them. If we have to pay him over 5 mil per year then I have to give it a big !

That is too much money to have tied up on the O-line. That is also why building thru the draft is the best philosophy. Nick Mangold (Pro Bowler) signed a 5 year 7.4 mil deal in 2006 with a 1 mil bonus. He was draft with pick #29.

Asking a rookie center to come in and start is a big request but it can be done. I think we have to re sign Al Johnson and let him compete with Satele and a 2nd round rookie in 2009. We can get either Max Unger, Alex Mack, Jonathan Luigs or Eric Wood in the second or possibly 3rd round.

Johnson and Satele are both 2nd rounders and Johnson did not get much of a shot last year. He is now healthy and would have a better chance to learn the system. The staff originally like him because they knew him and coached him before as a starter in Dallas. If they have soured on him then Matt Birk may be a better/cheaper short term option.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I may be mistaken, but I think only Mangold and Mawae were selected last year for the AFC. Mangold is certainly a good C, and Mawae is probably among the best ever. We'd have to trade if we want either one of them, and Mawae is old. Mangold is playing under a rookie contract and likely will be paid like one of the best when his contract is up, or slightly before then.

Historically, the PB has been a place where players make it on reputation. I remember Surtain finally made it after a couple of really solid years in which he didn't. There seems to sometimes be a lag.

There are definitely some intriguing C prospects in the draft, and I hope that abundance drives down the price for Brown. It would appear that the Trifecta is unhappy with the prospect of Satele remaining the starting C.

I also like the idea of building through the draft, but picking a C with one of our first couple of picks precludes us from picking another of our many areas of need. I think in general, C is one of the positions where it's unusual for a player to really succeed early. We thought Satele had, but now he doesn't fit the mold.

I like Brown here because:
- he's still very young
- he's big and heavy
- he has thrived in a run-heavy offense
- he seems to have a great head on his shoulders and be very grounded

Maybe Al Johnson didn't get a good shot last year, but I'd rather spend money on Brown as something of a sure thing.

I wasn't suggesting that we try and acquire Mangold or Mawae. I was just using them as an example of two of the three 09 Pro Bowlers where Brown was not selected). Casey Weigmann was the injury replacement for Mawae (the starter).

Mangold may get a fat contract but the Jets will have gotten 4 or 5 years out of him at bargain basement prices.

Even though Brown is proven, why would you over spend and make him the highest priced Center in the league when he isn't the best and maybe not in the top 5?

You would pay him 6 million a year with a 16 mil signing bonus? That's a lot of money when you already have the NFL's highest paid lineman and are trying to sign a RT at the market price which is also high.

We have a #2 overall pick in Ronnie and he is making 7 mil and is in the last year of his contract. Chad is making 5.75/year. Ginn at 2.6 mil. Wilford at 3.25 mil. Smiley at 3.7.

and to top it all off we have a defense that needs to sign 3/4 of our starting secondary and a ILB and needs to be upgraded as well.

Yes, Pro Bowl is about perception and popularity but it still carries "some" weight.

Hopefully your point about the abundance of Centers in the draft, does bring the price down.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/19/2009 10:28AM by eesti.

I won't be heartbroken if we don't get him, but I guess I like him well enough to see him being a part of the line at the price of 5-6 mill/yr.

If we draft a C w/one of our first 3 picks and he fits the mold, then I'll bet he won't be quite as good in 09 as Brown, but will be cheaper and even younger and might develop to be better. However, we'll lose a chance at a 1st/2nd round talent at LB or DT or whatever.

I guess I look at the best centers in the league according to Pro Bowls, which I admit is a valid measuring stick even if it tends to lag behind a player's performance just a bit, and see that Weigmann, Mawae, Gurode and O'Hara are all entering their 8th+ season. Mangold sticks out by having made it after his 3rd season.

I think we might be getting a young pro-bowler-to-be who has proven durability and an ability to be a part of a strong OL. I think he'd be a great asset to our young and (becoming) talented OL. There's no denying we have a ton of other needs, but he represents what I feel is good value.

If the Trifecta doesn't make a push for him or even try, I'll be ok with it. Good discussion.

I was shocked they didn't franchise Carey. It's a hole I didn't figure they'd open up. Dolphins have already said they're moving Satele. That means we're aquiring or drafting a center. We could use a good guard as well. Now we need a tackle to add to that.

The only thing I can figure is that besides the money, a big factor must have been that they're not that impressed with Carey. He was ok along the right side last year, but wasn't spectacular. We couldn't run the ball (without the wildcat).

So I guess they're going to shake up the line again this year and see what that will produce.

I'm worried though, that center is a difficult position, and if we don't pick up Brown, there's no guarantee someone like Mack will be significantly better, especially in year one. And I don't like the idea of a struggling rookie center, Satele next to him, and a tackle from the 3rd round next to Satele. I don't think we can run the ball like that. But maybe Brown/Satele/Unger (Unger can play 4 positions) is a possibility. Or Brown/Robinson/Britton. Or Brown/Levitre/3rd rounder?

I don't know, I guess we'll see how it all shakes out. I figure though, that they have to place guys on the right side who are better at run blocking than pass blocking. I think Satele is better at run blocking, isn't he?

When JASON BROWN gets signed away from Baltimore, they'll be in need. And they'll be drafting behind us, which is good, in case we aren't the team to sign him.

You must love Satele.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> You must love Satele.


You must hate him.

No. I dont hate Samson. I actually really like him. He just get his you know what handed to him when he goes up against bigger NT's.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Looking forward to seeing what thgis line looks like with Thomas back.

He had really stepped up prior to theinjury last sept, and should be healthy by now I suppose.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
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> No. I dont hate Samson. I actually really like
> him. He just get his you know what handed to him
> when he goes up against bigger NT's.

Thing is, a bigger Center isn't necessarily the answer. Stephensen was quick and used good technique to get low on NT's and, essentially, neutralize them. I think with the right O-Line coach and a good off-season training program, that Satele will be fine.

It isn't so much size as it is his short arms. Most centers are right at 300 lbs anyway but also have similar skill sets as a tackle....long arms, quick feet, etc.

The writing is on the wall for Satele.

Stephenson (6'2 255) played when 300 pounders were few and far between. They didn't really get popular until about the time Dwight retired in 1987.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
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> It isn't so much size as it is his short arms.
> Most centers are right at 300 lbs anyway but also
> have similar skill sets as a tackle....long arms,
> quick feet, etc.

Well, he did, basically, play with one arm last season.

> Stephenson (6'2 255) played when 300 pounders were
> few and far between. They didn't really get
> popular until about the time Dwight retired in
> 1987.

The Fridge was 300 pounds and a pro-bowler. Dwight destroyed him in that '85 game.

Yeah but thats Dwight...the best ever.

We are talking about Samson Satele.

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"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

montequi Wrote:
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> eesti Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It isn't so much size as it is his short arms.
> > Most centers are right at 300 lbs anyway but
> also
> > have similar skill sets as a tackle....long
> arms,
> > quick feet, etc.
>
> Well, he did, basically, play with one arm last
> season.

One short arm.

> > Stephenson (6'2 255) played when 300 pounders
> were
> > few and far between. They didn't really get
> > popular until about the time Dwight retired in
> > 1987.
>
> The Fridge was 300 pounds and a pro-bowler.
> Dwight destroyed him in that '85 game.

The Fridge was actually 382 lbs and was a rookie. He was also one of the first 300 pounders. As A&O said, DS was the best ever. If you remember, he did not have to block for very long as Marino was getting rid of the ball very quickly in his bid to pick apart the Bears.

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“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers