I am saying marriage is between a man and a woman always has been, and always will be. Anything different would create a special class of people who re define what traditional marriage is. you got it now. You can call it civil unions or any thing else just not marriage. Because in the eyes of our creator is not, and will never be a true marriage.

The big problem is he used 'text' social media.

Nobody can hear/see his tone and attitude. Someone with tact and humour could have delivered the exact same message and had people laughing or smiling.

With text...people are left to imagine the tone and voice. They read the ill-advised tweet and can hear hatred, anger, disgust...even if it wasn't there. Some might read jovial joking, or harmless intent...when there may actually have been judgement, malice, contempt.

Delicate issues need to be handled with more care and thought.

I honestly don't think Wallace is homophobic...I just think he is culturally ignorant/naive.

He appears to understand the error of his ways, and likely has learned from it. Hopefully he makes wiser choices in the future.

Listen I have gay people in my family, and I know some gay couples who have be acquaintances over the years. Some gay people don't want to be able to marry. For them being with their chosen love is enough for them. I tend to agree with that stance. You can love who ever you want. you just can't call it a marriage.

No I have no problem with it in the govt eye's for insurance, hospitals, taxes etc.. But there are many things the govt grants rights or privelges to one group and not another...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2013 04:56PM by Crowder52.

Holy cow. does anyone really give a crap? so what? who cares what someone says? This whole country has gone to the bloody bleeding hearts of the world. Seriously do names hurt that bad? hell i have been "Fat" all my life and continue to eat cheeseburgers lol!

I can't say my position better than Truth has stated it in every detail.

I'd only add that when you are in the hospital either on your death bed or in critical condition, if you are not "married" the love one is not admitted.

The hospital is not being religious and is not taking any position. It is done out of legal concern. The Truth was absolutely right therefore, Finshady, in that this is not a religious issue but a legal issue. Marriage is a church thing but a binding legal relationship is sanctioned by the state.

Maybe we should not call it "Marriage" for legal purposes but "Darriage."

Darriage should stand for "domestic arrangement."

I really think that the word "Marriage" should be stricken from the state statutes and "Domestic Arrangement" should be substituted.

That way Gays and Straights would have to go to the courts or the county or state record office and take an oath and then they would have all the rights and responsibilities known now to be "Marriage."

You would have to UNDO an "Darriage" just like you know have to get a divorce from marriage with a distribution of community assets.

In short, keep the government out of religion but more importantly, by abolishing "marriage" as a state institution and substituting "Darriage," we would keep religion out of the government functions.

You could still go to any church that will marry you according to it's own concepts but it would have nothing to do with the state institution.

That's all I have to say except Finshady, your Devil comment is really backward.

I remember that people once felt that marriage between the races was a sin against God. LOL. My buddy at Berkeley convinced me to drop my English girlfriend because he was a Black bigot but I agreed when he posited to me that it would be difficult for me to win political office in the 60's in Watts married to a White woman. It is one of the great regrets of my life that I listened to him and didn't take her to Cambridge when I went to Law School.

LOL. So there are bigots on both sides of the issue.

How do you feel about that, Finshady?

Are you also against interracial marriage on religious grounds?

I want to come out as well. I am 100% Lesbian. Have been my whole life.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

Can we talk about football yet?

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some gay people don't want to be able
> to marry. For them being with their chosen love
> is enough for them.

Sorry, but I'm calling BS on that one.

My cousin is gay and she's one of my favorite people on this planet. Through her I've met and talked with dozens gay couples and had many serious discussions and debates with them.

Not ONE of them has ever said they don't want the same rights as everyone else. Not one of them said they don't want to be able to visit their life partner in the hospital or that they are ok with paying double the tax rate on inheritance when that loved one dies.

.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No I have no problem with it in the govt eye's for
> insurance, hospitals, taxes etc.. But there are
> many things the govt grants rights or privelges to
> one group and not another...


Such as?

If you are 18 years old you can get sent off to war but not have the privilege of having a beer before you go... If you are an american citizen but were not born here, you cant run for president.. If you were born here, a US citizen and under the age of 35, you still cant become president either... If you make a certain amount of money you don't have to pay taxes while other groups who make more, pay steeper...
If you are in certain groups the Healthcare mandates doesnt affect you while it affects other groups... The list is endless really, if you analyze it.. There is no such thing as fair in America, that is for sure...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you are 18 years old you can get sent off to
> war but not have the privilege of having a beer
> before you go... If you are an american citizen
> but were not born here, you cant run for
> president.. If you were born here, a US citizen
> and under the age of 35, you still cant become
> president either... If you make a certain amount
> of money you don't have to pay taxes while other
> groups who make more, pay steeper...
> If you are in certain groups the Healthcare
> mandates doesnt affect you while it affects other
> groups... The list is endless really, if you
> analyze it.. There is no such thing as fair in
> America, that is for sure...


If you can't see the difference between denying citizens of this country the rights that others have versus the list you just posted, I doubt there's much left to talk about on this subject, but i'll take a shot at it anyway...

The difference here is that gay people are subject to those "unfair rules" that you listed the same way heterosexual people are. Those laws apply evenly to everyone in this country, no matter their race, creed, color, sex or sexual preference.

To use another example that you just alluded to on your list. Until recently, when you turned 18 you had the right as an adult to join the military, unless you were gay.

That has been determined to be unconstitutional. Because you are denying a right to some that is enjoyed by every other segment of the adult population. The same thing is going to happen with gay marriage for the same reason.

You are denying them a benefit granted to others based on your personal preferences.

To further illustrate the difference: Gay people have the same age restrictions the rest of us do for drinking, voting, going to war, for owning a gun, for being eligible to be president, for iwning property, paying taxes and for getting healthcare , etc...but you want to restrict their rights to all the benefits that come with a govt recognized union?

They get the same treatment as everyone else when it comes to you list of "unfair" laws. Why is this any different? How would descriminating against them on this issue be any different than denying women the vote, denying blacks the right to vote or to marry other races? How would it be any different than minorities banding together in a decade or two when the represent the majority in this country and passing a law that says white people can't be business owners?

I wonder if Mike Wallace has gotten a look at our new Logo? He might have second thoughts about being a Dolphin.

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2013 11:24AM by samsam3738.

I can't add anything to what Truth said.

Crowder, the most unfair thing about discrimination is when someone is disliked or judged inferior or denied something not based on WHAT THEY DO but WHO THEY ARE. Although we have almost complete control of what we do, we have no choice in what we were born to be.

If you are anyone else on this board think that gayness is a choice, let me tell you a story.

My opinion was formed when I was in the 5th Grade and there was a boy named Ronald Holman in my class. From grades 1 through 11, I went to a small school in Oklahoma that had grades 1 through 12.

There are a lot of people that I grew up with that after I left in 1965, whose names I can't remember.

Ronald Holman was only at Douglass in that fifth grade year of mine, 1958. But I remember him. At the time, no one had heard the word Gay.

Ronald was the sweetest kid that you could imagine. But the other boys, except me and my best friend Boo Boo, who could whip anyone in the class, tortured him. Boo Boo often had to push other boys off of him and warn them to leave him alone. He wasn't hurting anybody. Just because he talked like a girl and acted like a girl was no reason for people to hate him.

I now think back and know that Ronald Holman was gay even though at that age, 10 years old only, obviously, he had not engaged in any sexual activities. It was just the way he was born.

For all you people who think Gayness is a choice or a matter of choosing to follow the devil, how do you explain a 10 year old who never had sex being that way.

It was because he was born that way.

Now I know some of you knuckleheads won't accept that. Some of you will probably stretch and say that at the very least maybe he was molested.

Let me psychoanalyze YOU. Just like we all fear cancer. Why do we fear cancer? Mainly because we have no choice in the matter, usually.

You want to feel good about yourself. You can't feel as good about yourself if you admit that you were born heterosexual instead of homosexual as a matter of luck, not based on choice. So that's one angle.

The other side of the coin is that you don't like their behavior and you want to put them down. But even you recognize that you can't put them down based on something that they had NO CHOICE in being. It's easier to put them down if you can say it's a matter of choice.

It's easier to condemn a choice than it is to condemn nature.

I hope you will read this and if you have any fairness in you at all, you will change your opinion.

I'm tryin to give a sh*t about all of this...........wait a minute..........nope........still can't.

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm tryin to give a sh*t about all of
> this...........wait a
> minute..........nope........still can't.


Thank you. Thought I was the only one.

Bravo, ChyrenB!

I dont have any problem with 2 people who are in love being married in the eyes of the govt. Never had a problem with it.
All I said was there are privileges and or rights granted to one group and not others. The world nor America is fair... I posted several example of it, and either they are not good enough or not the same things etc in your eyes and or for your interpretation of the argument..It seems I have a different interpretation of the argument.I am not trying classify or prioritize these privileges They are privileges or rights one way or another granted to one group and not another... Pretty simple and straight forward, I am not here to argue about gay rights or equal rights, as a political term, I agree with it all..
I am just saying privileges and rights are not equal for all citizens...

I am not the religious right republican you are looking for, I am extremely liberal on most social issues, I am a conservative on taxes, and personal responsibility. In most cases beyond that I am mainly a libertarian so to speak...

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All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2013 11:31AM by Crowder52.

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> All I said was there are privileges and or rights
> granted to one group and not others. The world nor
> America is fair...

Sure...but just saying that and throwing your hands up is a cop-out. I bet there were slaves back before the Civil War that thought the same thing.

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Sure...but just saying that and throwing your
> hands up is a cop-out. I bet there were slaves
> back before the Civil War that thought the same
> thing.


How is it that I am throwing my hands up? I am just being honest, how is honesty a cop-out? How is what I said somehow a suggestion about what slaves were thinking before the civl war?

Look at our constitution, look at our laws, they are not equal to all citizens....

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

CHyren- I do think kids are born gay, and dont have a choice in the matter.. I have no idea what you are talking about... Just because I argue about the country not being fair doesn't mean I believe in any of the nonsense you described above...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

By the laws of nature it was intended since the beginning of time that a woman and a man should relate. Not a man and a man...

Its just not normal for a man been with another man.

WHo knows what type of drugs or crack cocaine their parents did for a kid to be born like that.

Nobody knows why a kid is born like that.

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WHo knows what type of drugs or crack cocaine
> their parents did for a kid to be born like that.
>
> Nobody knows why a kid is born like that.


If your basis for your opinion on this issue is going to be a religious one the ask yourself this question sam:

If God hates homosexuals so much, then why does he keep making so many of them?


(sorry for the "Rougish" typo...was an auto correct from my phone)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2013 03:09PM by THE Truth.

What a silly statement. Of course he's "ignorant" of the guy's point of view, since he's not gay himself. He was expressing his own point of view- which he has the right to do.

Rick

"He was arrested?"
****** No, just unjustly vilified. ******

"Ignorance is bliss."
****** Are you serious? he's not gay, how can he know this guy's point of view?"******

"Its the being intolerant of that person who is different than you which makes someone a bigot."
******There is NOTHING intolerant in his statement.******

" I think he was expressing an ill-informed opinion, in a poorly thought out fashion."
****** He was simply not being "empathetic", which he can't be since he's not gay. Personally, a statement about liking girls is neither ill-informed or poorly thought out.******

It can be argued that maybe he shouldn't have said anything, but then again, why not?

Rick