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          Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
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Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: realist ()
Date: April 28, 2013 04:39PM

The whole Brandon Albert thing was an expertly orchestrated smoke screen.

There were lots of OT's on the board but only a few genuine pass rushers.

Pass rusher was a bigger need. If you look at what was available in free Agency and the draft...way more options at Tackle than DE.

Chip Kelly was poised to draft his guy...and did not suspect us jumping him to nab Jordan. Nobody did. Brilliant!


Ireland has likely burned bridges in KC...but ....he did what he had to do.

I like everything about the draft except....

I wish he used a 6th on Swope. I know we have competition at WR...but that would have been a nice pick-up.

Ireland set us up to compete with the Pats...and vie for top spot in our division.


Jordan and Wake coming after Brady on the outside...Starks and Soliai up the middle....Can't Wait!!!

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: coopdogg3 ()
Date: April 28, 2013 04:46PM

We didn't have a 6th round pick, if that helps any.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: April 28, 2013 04:54PM

**edit** coopdog beat me to it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/28/2013 04:58PM by 808phan.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: realist ()
Date: April 28, 2013 04:55PM

true...but with 2 in the 5th? they were trading in and out of rounds all day.

That said....it is probably best it Tanney develops chemistry with Wallace instead of lean on his former go to guy.

good draft I give it an 'A'

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: SCPhinsFan ()
Date: April 28, 2013 05:02PM

Speed and versatility. Gives Philbin and staff tons of flexibility in scheming gameplans.

I think the team is on the upswing

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: coopdogg3 ()
Date: April 28, 2013 05:21PM

I do love the smokescreen. No one had a clue what we were doing.

I think KC was trying to be too clever by half. I think they should have just kept Winston at RT, let Albert leave, and then draft Fisher. Then they would have 2 good OTs to build around. Now they have a pretty messed up situation.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Date: April 28, 2013 06:15PM

Maybe we can get 7-11 back in camp......grinning smiley

I would have liked Franklin but I'm just glad the need for a RB was addressed, as were most other holes we had. We will Shure up RT any day now. We may not be elite at every position, but we have competition at most. All in all a good 3 days and I'm looking really forward to seeing what Tanny can do. AND the Wake/Jordan express. Shake and bake! thumbs up

GO DOLPHINS!!!!

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 28, 2013 07:26PM

Had me fooled. I was getting so enraged about the Albert thing. Thinking all the time that our mindset was that OL was a priority in free agency and WR was STILL the draft priority.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: realist ()
Date: April 29, 2013 04:29PM

Yes, I liked Franklin a lot.

When I evaluate college talent...I look at production. NOt just high averages..or big plays...but LOTS of touches with decent avg.s

Franklin has lots of carries and is in the top 10 in almost every category. Don't know if he will ever be a star...but the guy can play against anyone and produce.

Jordan and Wake is an exciting thought!

And...if we wanted to....we could put Odrick at DE, and Jordan at LB covering the TE. At 6'6.5" with long arms...? it will be tough for QB's to drop anything in over Jordan.

GREAT pick!

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: realist ()
Date: April 29, 2013 04:30PM

I would have been 'ok' with drafting a tackle...it was a logical conservative thing to do.

but early on I knew we needed another pass rusher...and nothing was done in Free Agency. I don't know why we didn't all see it coming. Too much smoke I guess.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: April 29, 2013 04:37PM

We didn't see it coming, nobody did including Ireland and Philbin until oakland actually accepted a cheap offer for the number 3 pick.. I don't think we would have given up much more then we did.. So it wasn't like we were targeting this guy, the whole scenario happened while Oakland was on the clock..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 29, 2013 04:44PM

realist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, I liked Franklin a lot.
>
> When I evaluate college talent...I look at
> production. NOt just high averages..or big
> plays...but LOTS of touches with decent avg.s
>
> Franklin has lots of carries and is in the top 10
> in almost every category. Don't know if he will
> ever be a star...but the guy can play against
> anyone and produce.
>
> Jordan and Wake is an exciting thought!
>
> And...if we wanted to....we could put Odrick at
> DE, and Jordan at LB covering the TE. At 6'6.5"
> with long arms...? it will be tough for QB's to
> drop anything in over Jordan.
>
> GREAT pick!



If we want to, in passing situations we can go: Wake, Odrick, Starks, Vernon on the D-line... With... Jordan, Ellerbe and Wheeler at LB.

All three LB's have good cover skills, and Ellerbe and Wheeler were two of the better blitzing LB's in the NFL last year.

How'd you like to guess where the pass rush is coming from versus that lineup?

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: realist ()
Date: April 29, 2013 04:48PM

I disagree. It was the 3rd pick. the draft JUST started. It isn't like Jordan tumbled down the boards and we traded up to grab him....2 OT's were gone and a couple more decent ones were there.

as you pointed out...the Raiders took low compensation for the swap...they could have grabbed any one of 3 or 4 guys and the value would have been justified given the favorable trade.

It is not a co-incidence that they leap-frogged Jordan's former coach by 1 spot.

This year has been about adding playmakers. Ireland needed to address the need for a pass rusher to compliment Wake. He did his research....there were more options at OL and CB than DE...so he made up his mind and made his move.

3rd pick over-all is too big and early to be anything but a calculated, researched decision.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: realist ()
Date: April 29, 2013 04:53PM

Great point! Not to mention Reshad Jones developing into and effective blitzer.

we will have a very fast D.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: April 29, 2013 04:55PM

Well if you listen to Ireland tell the story it comes across much different then as you described.. Ireland said he basically took a shot in the dark.. Telling himself, it doesn't hurt to ask... The fact the raiders felt confident their guy would be there at 12 also had a lot to do with it.. Jordan was at the top of the board but nobody thought they would get him.. They weren't going to race the house to get him.. They took who they considered the BPA with pick # 3..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: April 29, 2013 05:15PM

I agree crowder, don't think Ireland would of given up a whole lot more (maybe he would of thrown in a 4th/5th rnder), he also did a good job of hiding his true draft target so as not to create competition, EVERYONE thought he was targeting Lane Johnson.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 30, 2013 04:10AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well if you listen to Ireland tell the story it
> comes across much different then as you
> described.. Ireland said he basically took a shot
> in the dark.. Telling himself, it doesn't hurt to
> ask... The fact the raiders felt confident their
> guy would be there at 12 also had a lot to do with
> it.. Jordan was at the top of the board but nobody
> thought they would get him.. They weren't going to
> race the house to get him.. They took who they
> considered the BPA with pick # 3..


What Ireland said was that they were watching the first few picks come off the board when Ross asked them who they would want if they could have any player of the guys at the top of the draft.
Ireland said tey were unanimous in their answer....Jordan. But nobody thought they could get him.

Then when the raiders were on the clock espn showed their war room a few min into the clock and nobody was on the phone so he decided to make a call and take that shot on the dark. He offered 12 & 57, they declined the offer.

They called back a minute or two later and said they'd do it for 12 & 42.

Hard to say no to a deal like that. Even harder to go bpa and not for a LT. This will go down as either an all time heist or all time screw up. Just have to wait to see how it plays out.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: Odenn ()
Date: April 30, 2013 04:25AM

What gets me Truth is the same people who moaned about the conservative nature of the organization all these years, will be the same people who trash Ireland for trying to make the splash.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 30, 2013 04:36AM

Odenn Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What gets me Truth is the same people who moaned
> about the conservative nature of the organization
> all these years, will be the same people who trash
> Ireland for trying to make the splash.


Very true.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: Krunk Fu ()
Date: April 30, 2013 05:13AM

Let's be honest here, the whole thing with Dion Jordan was not planned at all. We couldn't strike a deal for the 6th pick so Ireland tossed a crazy trade proposal to the Raiders at the last minute and they accepted. So Brandon Albert wasn't a smoke screen; we wanted the guy, but just not at the price KC was selling him for.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ireland has done a great job this offseason, but Dion Jordan was more a product of opportunity than design.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2013 05:14AM by Krunk Fu.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: April 30, 2013 09:07AM

Krunk, you always have to have luck when you make a great deal.

Luck has to be a component of it no matter whether you planned on the strategy or were dealing with a dumb opponent.

At the very least, however, you have to give the dealer credit for even knowing he is dealing with a dumb opponent.

My point is that you seem to have set up a test that is unwilling to give Ireland any credit because of your theory that it wasn't brilliance on his part as much as dumbness on the part of the Raiders.

My question to you is then why, at the very least, don't you give him credit for knowing that of all the teams between 1 and 12, that he could strike that deal with the Raiders.

I don't like him either dude but sometimes you have to admit it when you're wrong, at least in this one instance.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: Krunk Fu ()
Date: April 30, 2013 12:14PM

I'm not saying Ireland wasn't savvy for moving up to snag Jordan. He was smart for doing so.

All I'm saying is that Brandon Albert was not, at all, a smoke screen in doing so. They are entirely independent deals. If the chiefs had agreed to part with Albert for a low 3rd, we'd have both Albert and Dion Jordan on the roster right now.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: April 30, 2013 04:34PM

Ireland is very calculating. He knew the scenarios and had Jordan in the back of his mind IMO.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: realist ()
Date: April 30, 2013 04:44PM

I agree that the trade was a something that was 'un-expected'...but you don't trade up all the way from 12 to 3 without an idea of who you WANT.

You have to look at the board and ask yourself....is there anybody on that board that is worth giving up a 2nd round pick for?

Clearly they felt Jordan was that guy. They could have drafted OT with #3. Lane Johnson was the very next pick....so no-one was going to call it a reach if we had picked him. Trading up that far...and NOT doing what everyone expected you to do...what you went out of your way to say you would do ( draft Jake Longs and Mike Pounceys every year)...is a clear sign of distraction and smoke screen.

Chip kelly and the Eagles were going to take Jordan...they ended up taking BPA after we got their guy.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: realist ()
Date: April 30, 2013 04:54PM

They could have had Albert...and still can.

Ireland talked about trading up to #1 if he needed too...and in the same conference talked about drafting Tackles...

When you talk THAT much about your plans and desires before the draft...you are either an idiot...or planning to do something else.

When I was a kid my dad taught me how to catch lobster by hand. You hold left hand ( for most people) in front of them and wiggle your fingers and move your hand gently...then you sneak your right hand behind them...then you move your left hand quickly toward them and they will swim backwards away from your 'obvious intention' left hand and right into your right hand that they hadn't paid attention to.

EVERYONE was talking Tackle for Miami...even after the trade and the 'pick is in' NO_ONE suggested anything other than Lane Johnson.

No-way he pulls off that trade and then thinks....'oh...wait a minute...maybe I don't need a Tackle after-all'...even though the guy is right there.

The trade and its terms may not have been expected....but getting someone OTHER than a Tackle...was in the works the whole time.

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: realist ()
Date: April 30, 2013 04:59PM

They may still get Albert...or they might sign someone else...but the negotiations had the exact effect of lulling all of the other teams into thinking...'no- problem...the Dolphins are trading up for a Tackle...they are not after our guy'...and too bad for the Eagles....it was a smokescreen.

The fact that they did not trade for Albert, nor drafted a Tackle who was there, shows that they were not as desperate for one as the 'lead everyone to believe'

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: April 30, 2013 05:03PM

I think the problem with the Albert deal and still is, has to do with our contract negotiations with him personally, not the draft picks as much.. The Chiefs are essentially in a salary dump position with him at this point, so they dont have much of position to squabble over IMO.. a 3rd rd pick if it happens..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: May 01, 2013 09:14AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the problem with the Albert deal and still
> is, has to do with our contract negotiations with
> him personally, not the draft picks as much.. The
> Chiefs are essentially in a salary dump position
> with him at this point, so they dont have much of
> position to squabble over IMO.. a 3rd rd pick if
> it happens..

***************************************************

Supposedly, the major hangup (initially) was the draft picks; KC wanted more than Miami was willing to give up. Miami (supposedly) had no problem paying Albert $9M per year.

Right now, Miami still needs a LT, but is not as "desperate" (if they truly ever were) to grab one, either thru the draft or trade (Albert).

Thus far, McKinnie is the only LT that has had a tryout with the Fins, and it looks as tho he will be signing with SD. So, that leaves Miami with three RTs to choose from. Evidently, Martin is their guy unless something else happens along the way.

KC is no longer in a position of demanding what they want for Albert. Sure, they want to dump his salary, but I still can't understand why Miami would want to pick up the salary. $9M is way too much for what Albert brings. At most, he is in the $3 - $4M range (AT MOST).

Right now, I wouldn't give KC a damn thing for Albert. If Miami has to, give them a 7th.

But, Albert still has to come down on his contract demands. If Ireland caves in.......

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: May 01, 2013 10:07AM

KC is in a tough spot.. But they are foolish they shouldn't have franchised him... Now they are on the hook....But a 7th rd pick seems a little light, but who knows..
But no way Albert takes a 3-4 million a year money. He is worth more then that..He will take his franchise money over a 3-4 million a year deal..No trade happens if he doesnt agree in terms to a new deal.. HE is guaranteed the 9 million from being franchised... KC might get stuck with him, but they are going to hurt his value for him trying to sign next year, if he plays RT or guard..

-----------------------------------------------------------------
All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth.
Nietzsche

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Re: Ireland demonstrated some smarts...and coglioni
Posted by: Odenn ()
Date: May 01, 2013 03:28PM

I don't know about Miami being open to paying Albert 9 million with no problem. We only have 11 million in cap room, and that's before we sign our draft picks. We give Albert 9 million this year, we would be left with 2 million to sign our picks and complete any other transactions that need to be made. Given that we still could be dumping some people because of salary(Carpenter, etc.) I don't think Miami wants to pay 9 million to him.

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