Although I love recievers I dont think we should spend any of our first 3-4 picks getting one. That being said I think we should make a great effort to get TJ whos yo momma. If we can get him we can put sorry ginn as the deep guy, Tj as the #2 and bess in the slot with g. cam seeing alot of reps either subbing for gin or bess. Then we can spend some 4,5 or 6th round money on a guy like greg carr (florida state), any one of the texas wr which may be around, crosby or shipley, maybe massaquoi (aquas boy), j. dillard (rice), j. norwood (penn state). I think we can look at these guys with late draft picks (I think any of those texas recievers or dillard would be most productive with a late pick). If we can get tj who i think we got options and could be the linchpin to an outstanding draft... thoughts



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2009 10:26AM by Miami Reppa.

Except I think Camarillo is better than Bess and would be the #3 slot guy.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Except I think Camarillo is better than Bess and
> would be the #3 slot guy.


Yeah , based on this season it would appear that way, infact I would take it one step further and say that he is even better than ginn and should be the #1, but for some reason I think that if we had those four guys in preseason camp by the regular season I think cam would be bumped to #4. I cant give a good reason why just my gut feeling.

Bess came on strong as a YAC player. Camarillo was better early, but if we sign/draft astarting WR, don't be surprised to see Bess beat out Cam.

Any chance we hit a 4 wr set on a regular basis? Not really a Parcells' style, but Bess, & Ginn can do a lot with the ball in space...Camarillo gets open....a 4th guy upgrading the group would really open up the field. 2 -3 deep routes, a crossing route and RB sliding out to the flats....teams would have to play nickel D most of the time.

hmm...is anyone ni the league playing muc 4WR anymore? I remember we did it with Marino....I think the Rams did it for a while. Patriots did it one season.

TJ is on the wrong side of 30, will want too much money, and isn't a real downfield threat. I would much rather draft a WR than overpay a 32 year old who has always benefitted from lining up opposite Chad Johnson. We need a #1 WR, a guy who is big enough to go over the middle and be a major factor in the red zone, while also having enough speed to get downfield. TJ doesn't fit the need.

I agree to an extent. The reason I like tj is because with penni at the helm we are a ball control offense. Make no mistake about it. The unusual thing is we are not a ball control offense with the run game but rather with the short pass attack led by TE's. I feel that more important than a home run hitter is a wr that can get open against just about anyone (tj could be that guy). I agree that he is on the wrong side of 30 but so is penni. I think that we have pieces in place to make a deep playoff push next year and penni needs a wr that can pick up 3rd downs consistently. Alot of people get caught up with speed and think speed means an explosive offense but if you look at dallas these past two years they have 0 speed at wr or TE but they have been very explosive. So our scheme right now is the short attack and ball control and playing solid defense with minimal turn overs. TJ fits very well in that scheme. maybe in 2-3 years we reevaluate but for now I do believe that TJ can help us take that next step.

I like TJ as a player. I just don't think he's a fit for our franchise. But, I also don't think Chad Pennington is the answer at QB. I don't see us being a real Super Bowl contender until Henne takes over. And when he does, the downfield passing game will be a lot more important. I feel really strongly about this. Ndukwe and Alleman were awful, and Satele has a hard time with the bigger DTs. But, the o-line isn't entirely to blame for the lack of ability to run out of the base offense. Teams routinely have 8, 9, and even 10 defenders within 7 or 8 yards of the line of scrimmage against us. And they do that because they know we can't throw the ball down the field with any consistency. I live in New England. When Pennington was with NY, Pats' players said that when they defended him, they ignored entire parts of the field because of his lack of arm strength. They said that if the ball was on the right hash, they'd treat the left hash as the sideline, because they knew he couldn't get it any further out than that without the ball hanging in the air too long. And they also said they didn't worry much about anything more than 20-25 yards downfield. Until we can get those defenders away from the line of scrimmage, we will struggle to run the ball. That's why I think the team needs to build around a long term plan of Henne taking the reigns at QB.

Yeah I agree with you guys but I think we can all agree that next year penni will be our starting qb. When henni takes over I do believe that down field attack will be more utilized but that wont be until 2010 best case senerio, so what do we do to upgrade next year? Next year we will have penni and his short attack so to upgrade he needs weapons that can play that game. If henni was the qb I would not want tj, I would want a young draft stud that could be like a Dwaye bowe, physical but can get down field.

So until this is the case we cant just throw next year away, penni could be our qb for the next two years nobody knows. So until henni takes the helm my thinking is how we can be better now. And if you give penni a bunch of guys that can get vertical he will not use them (we all know that), so why try and get those type of guys? We need guys that can get third downs and move the sticks. When henni takes over we can get guys that are good for him... (wow, this penni henni stuff is getting confusing)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2009 09:47AM by Miami Reppa.

Because if we get those kind of players they will not be rookies when Henne/Beck take over at quarterback and they will be better equiped to help them out. Not to mention that better targets will in the interim make Pennigton better as well. I wouldn't even look at a WR that didn't have 4.4 speed at a minnimum. TJ, no thanks. Just because you have speed and can go deep does not mean that such a player has to go deep...thats why we should draft big guys at WR that are also very fast. Then they can do it all with proper coaching.

We have to draft and sign F/A's with an eye toward the future, not just looking at the here and now. That said we almost HAVE to take a big/fast WR somewhere this year. Preferably, we take him on the first day of the draft.

In 9 years Pennington has ever played two full years without injury. He has played a full 16 games only twice. The odds are that Henne will get a look at some point this year.

I have been one of Chad's biggest supporters but I also agree with other people on this board that Ted Ginn will never be fully utilized with Chad at the helm...so we had better get our running game working better until then.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because if we get those kind of players they will
> not be rookies when Henne/Beck take over at
> quarterback and they will be better equiped to
> help them out. Not to mention that better targets
> will in the interim make Pennigton better as well.
> I wouldn't even look at a WR that didn't have 4.4
> speed at a minnimum. TJ, no thanks. Just because
> you have speed and can go deep does not mean that
> such a player has to go deep...thats why we should
> draft big guys at WR that are also very fast. Then
> they can do it all with proper coaching.
>
> We have to draft and sign F/A's with an eye toward
> the future, not just looking at the here and now.
> That said we almost HAVE to take a big/fast WR
> somewhere this year. Preferably, we take him on
> the first day of the draft.


This is why I think it's a must that we draft a WR early this season. Rookie WR often struggle to make a major impact. The NFL is a huge adjustment for many of these guys because so many of them get by in college on pure athleticism. If we want a young WR to be an impact player in 2010 or 2011, then 2009 is when to get him on the roster.

"If we want a young WR to be an impact player in 2010 or 2011, then 2009 is when to get him on the roster."

I think Ginn will be that impact player. He has had two years and has gotten better each game imo. I think ( and hope ) that next season will be Ginns breakout year. As many have said, It takes a couple years for most receivers to come around. Look at the game Santonio Holmes had in the super bowl. Imo Ginn is more talented. How many years has Holmes been in the league?

finman34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How many years
> has Holmes been in the league?

One year longer than Ginn, and he broke out in his 2nd season. Next year will be Ginn's 3rd.

Teddy is in an offense without a deep ball QB. If Teddy had Big Ben throwing to him he would have had 1,200 yards and atleast 10 TD's in the air not including the TD's he had on the ground.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

finman34 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "If we want a young WR to be an impact player in
> 2010 or 2011, then 2009 is when to get him on the
> roster."
>
> I think Ginn will be that impact player. He has
> had two years and has gotten better each game imo.
> I think ( and hope ) that next season will be
> Ginns breakout year. As many have said, It takes a
> couple years for most receivers to come around.
> Look at the game Santonio Holmes had in the super
> bowl. Imo Ginn is more talented. How many years
> has Holmes been in the league?

Ginn is only 178 lbs and not physical at all. I don't see him ever becoming a major factor over the middle or in the red zone. If his peak is as a 60 catch guy, that's fine, as long as it includes 900+ yards and 8-10 TD per season. I don't ever see him being a guy who will catch 80-90 balls in a season.

What you see here is Ginn getting the ball and going immediately up the field. The past two seasons I've noticed that he runs side to side a bit too much for us on the kick returns. He needs to play a tad more agressivly IMHO.

Maybe the coaches are telling him to use his speed more and not to take direct hits, maybe he is afraid to get hit...who knows.

Also he sees better coverage teams in the NFL.

and pathetic blocking from his own team for the first 3/4 of the season.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Maybe I'm just fickle because Cam Cameron was directly responsible for the first 2 picks in the draft a couple years ago. Beck has been a bust up to now, so that's probably skewing my whole attitude towards Ginn.

Time will tell. This year is the true test. It is his first time to play in the same offense for consecutive years with the same QB and it's the make or break 3rd year.

That being said, I would not be terribly disappointed if we drafted Heyward-Bey in the first round or another WR with 2a or b.

I think Maclin is going to be a stud but no chance we get him.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

I still think he wont be able to reach his full potential until we get a QB who can throw the deep ball. Just my opinion.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I cant wait to see the Henne-Ginn connection.

Not that Im calling for Pennington. No way. He is our starter and should be. I just know Henne is very accurate on deep passes.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

There sure seems to be a lot of hype in the Florida media about how Miami should trade for Anquan Boldin to make up for past mistakes...bla, bla, bla. He and Ginn would be a nice hook-up with CamBess in the slot. Maybe for a 2nd rounder. Let's see if Az agrees to rework his deal since Fitz has stated he would rework his to kkep AB from leaving.

It would be a lot more rewarding to finally nab a Franchise WR from the draft though...but it is a long shot. WR and QB's have to be two of the hardest positions to find elite talent.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Fitz is the best receiver on that team and probably the best WR in the league.

However, AZ reportedly turned down a first-rounder for AB last year. Why would they take a 2nd rounder for him this year? He played at an incredible level this year, grabbing 11 TD in just 12 games. He displayed unbelievable toughness. And, he did all this even though he was incredibly dissatisfied with his contract.

AZ holds all the cards here, it seems like. Unbelievable talent and production at the position, and both WR locked up for the next couple of years. It's their passing game that makes them go offensively, so I would think they'd be very unwilling to mess with such a potent weapon.

The only reason I've heard is 'they only lost 1 of 5 games w/o him', but I just don't think that holds enough water. The only reason that comes to my mind is that they think they can demand a premium for him in trade and have Breaston step in to start. I don't think we'll pay a premium.

From T.J. Houshmandzadeh's perspective, it sounds like his days in Cincinnati might be drawing near a close. "I really don't know. I can't speak for them but I haven't heard from them which would lead me to assume that I'm out of there," Houshmandzadeh said. With free agency set to begin three weeks from Friday, Houshmandzadeh could be one of the top players on the market and is the most prized receiver available. Whether or not Houshmandzadeh is available won't be known for another two weeks. He is an unrestricted free agent, but the Bengals could still use the franchise tag on him. The period for teams to designate franchise players began Thursday and will continue until 4 p.m. on Feb. 19.

Cincinnati Enquirer

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

Ginn is a baller, He will put it together this year or the next. We need more playmakers at WR besides Ginn. A big time talent, hopefully Tuna can find us a diamond in the draft. He grabbed Bess as a free agent, jus think what he can get in the 5th or 6th round.