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          Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: January 24, 2013 11:39AM

quote miami reppa: ALL nfl defensive coordinators if asked would much rather face a pocket passer



Asked any of them coaches that had to face dan how they felt everytime they knew the phins were coming to town.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Miami Reppa ()
Date: January 24, 2013 12:12PM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> quote miami reppa: ALL nfl defensive coordinators
> if asked would much rather face a pocket passer
>
>
>
> Asked any of them coaches that had to face dan how
> they felt everytime they knew the phins were
> coming to town.

yeah yeah, but what you are forgetting is how many bums, and average pocket passer did the nfl have to go through to get 1 dan marino? what hundreds? almost thousands? How many hof dan marino type qb's where there in the entire decade of the 80's? (remember just about everyone had a pocket passer) I would guess 3 maybe 4... now how many pocket qb's did that decade see? I would guess 150, so you do the math... thats like what a 2% chance at finding a marino. I can guarantee the odds of finding a HOF with that many mobile qb is significantly higher...

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: January 24, 2013 01:49PM

Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can guarantee the odds of
> finding a HOF with that many mobile qb is
> significantly higher...


How do you figure?

there are roughly 350 Division I Football programs. Since 1980, the majority of them run some type of offensive scheme OTHER than pro style offense.

That means the pool for the NFL to draw talent from is tilted TOWARDS mobile QB's not pocket passers. I won't even argue if you want to say its relatively level with a slight lean one way or the other.


Here's the list of the HOF QB's that played in the Super Bowl era:


Troy Aikman
Terry Bradshaw
Len Dawson
John Elway
Dan Fouts
Bob Griese
Sonny Jurgensen
Jim Kelly
Dan Marino
Joe Montana
Warren Moon
Joe Namath
Bart Starr
Roger Staubach
Fran Tarkenton
Johnny Unitas
Steve Young

Here are the guys currently playing or just retired that are LOCKS for the HOF:

Brett Favre
Peyton Manning
Tom Brady
Drew Brees


That's 21 QB's in the Super Bowl era to go to the HOF (or about to go)...


THREE of them are running QB's...

Tarkington
Staubach
Young



I know I'm not changing your mind Reppa but I really don't see how anyone could make that guarantee, considering that the farm system that produces NFL QB's has historically turned out as many or more mobile QB's than pocket passers every year.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 24, 2013 03:30PM


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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: January 25, 2013 04:56AM

chren maybe a new thread poll is due...


Who would people want tannehill to become.....?

1. A dan Marino Type QB or joe montana pocket passer

2. Or a steve young type or any other of the scrambling qbs.


I would have to vote A....

A pocket passer with the awareness in the pocket dan has is deadly.

I dont want to risk our main player on this team to an injury like RG3.

1 year in the league and already has a serious injury.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 25, 2013 08:29AM

You can start that poll.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Miami Reppa ()
Date: January 25, 2013 08:55AM

OK truth... You took me literally I did not phrase it correctly. What I meant is looking at qb's drafted in the 80's. if you include guys that played in the 80's but drafted in the 70's and late 60's then you would have to also include the all qb's drafted going all the way back 3 decades! quite a bit of footwork so let me condense your list (which was quite impressive i must say)

HOF QB drafted in that era:
Akiman
Marino
Kelly
Elway
Young

Unless you disagree that is 5 qb's, i said 3or4 off the top of my head (but remember the 80's includes the 83 draft which to date is the gold standard of qb drafts so that inflates the number a bit but that cool). Thats 5 divided by how many pocket passers drafted that decade? Like I said without looking at any draft history my logic is 30 teams and each team draft 5 qb in 10 years (which is a large understatement so I am sure the number is much much higher).


Truth Wrote: "That means the pool for the NFL to draw talent from is tilted TOWARDS mobile QB's not pocket passers."

you are absolutely correct! College has been producing much more mobile qb's than pocket passers for atleast 2 decades (I would guess 7:3 ratio- infavor of mobile qb's). If you are saying which is a valid point, why then is it for the past 2 decades this has not been reflected in the NFL? Is it because pocket passers are better? If that is true I would ask why then dont pocket passers dominate the college ranks as well/ or why are there less pocket passers?

I think an answer to do with ALOT of these mobile qb's in the "farm" system were historically forced to be converted to WR as the only way to be drafted by the nfl. Thank god that ridiculous logic might finally be over. Maybe when I have time I can produce a list of converted qb's for you, it is quite impressive...

Truth Wrote: I know I'm not changing your mind Reppa
I think that goes both ways my man smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2013 09:15AM by Miami Reppa.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: captkoi ()
Date: January 25, 2013 12:26PM

Miami Reppa Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I understand Kaepernick has his team to the
> > superbowl but have you taken a look at the
> > supporting cast he has to help him out?
> >
> > And he is really good of course.
>
>
> all superbowl qb's have really good supporting
> cast or they would not be there... the point still
> is that you dont have to be a pocket qb to win in
> this game and be successful. And just because you
> have the god given ability to use your feet you
> should not be look down upon for it when infact it
> makes you a greater threat. These are facts, ALL
> nfl defensive coordinators if asked would much
> rather face a pocket passer than a mobile guy that
> can beat you with his arm and his legs. On
> average mobile qb's are MUCH better than pocket
> qb's.

***************************************************

This thread may have been going on for far too long; it seems as if the original idea has gotten away from us.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 25, 2013 01:02PM

So let's close it by saying that Colin Kaepernick proves that that statement is dead butt wrong!

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: DolfanKing ()
Date: January 25, 2013 06:27PM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chren maybe a new thread poll is due...
>
>
> Who would people want tannehill to become.....?
>
> 1. A dan Marino Type QB or joe montana pocket
> passer
>
> 2. Or a steve young type or any other of the
> scrambling qbs.
>
>
> I would have to vote A....
>
> A pocket passer with the awareness in the pocket
> dan has is deadly.
>
> I dont want to risk our main player on this team
> to an injury like RG3.
>
> 1 year in the league and already has a serious
> injury.


I don't care what Tannehill becomes, as long as its not a bust.

------------------------------------------------------------

Miami Dolphins. Always Perfect.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Miami Reppa ()
Date: January 26, 2013 12:15AM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So let's close it by saying that Colin Kaepernick
> proves that that statement is dead butt wrong!


That is absolutely correct! it blows my mind how a person can convince a large population of people otherwise. Put more simply for people who still might be struggling with this, how can a person really believe that say matthew stafford (the pocket passer) is more dangerous than matthew stafford also given russell wilsons ability to scramble.... pretty foolish huh, lol.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: January 26, 2013 03:51AM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So let's close it by saying that Colin Kaepernick
> proves that that statement is dead butt wrong!

Have you heard of Cam Newton? He dominated the league last season, but this season he struggled because teams figured him out. Same will happen to Kaepernick next year. Just watch.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: BigNastyFish ()
Date: January 26, 2013 06:40AM

I think it's pretty obvious the "formula" at QB in the NFL is changing. And mobility/athleticism at the position is proving to be a dynamic capacity that puts defenses into a paradoxical relationship vis-a-vis their primary objectives smashing against their immediately attainable goals. Or simply put -- choose your poison because the "read on the fly" triple threat (i.e., run - pass - pitch) makes the D a tad bit more reactive -- and that extra tempo is all a really good WR needs to rip it up in the secondary, or a RB needs to slash into the vaunted 2nd level (headed towards the promised land where he can be free at last).

By contrast, it's a totally non-athletic embarrassing scene watching Brady stumble like a stoned albatross in an attempt to ambulate a few yards for a 1st down. Not! And then of course, he kicks like the girl he is.

LOL.

Please. No more vaginal football. Let the athletes play.

And that's good for us because Thill is damn fine athlete -- as we periodically witnessed this season. I suspect he'll be given ("encouraged"winking smiley more opportunity to showcase his athletic chops next year. I mean there's no reason to develop the kid as a "PURE POCKET PASSER" when that's not where the reality is heading in the NFL.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Miami Reppa ()
Date: January 26, 2013 08:16AM

Yes it has long been time to come off of this aristocratic archaic "pure" passer concept that should apply to ALL qb's. Any joker with two eyes can see the huge advantage of having a guy that can pass when protected (which ANY professional qb can do, even the 3rd string guy). Now add to that an ability to attack a defense with your legs when things break down. What arent people understanding? To be quite honest I am shocked that this debate could possibly have go on this long, and people can honestly believe that having a statue like non athletic qb is better than an athletic one, hilarious!

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Miami Reppa ()
Date: January 26, 2013 08:30AM

montequi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Have you heard of Cam Newton? He dominated the
> league last season, but this season he struggled
> because teams figured him out. Same will happen
> to Kaepernick next year. Just watch.


Yup your right Cam Newton stats:
(in 2011): 4051 tot yds/ 21TD/ 17ints
(in 2012): 3869 tot yds/ 19TD/ 12ints

Come on dude he passed for as many yards as eli manning, and more than flacco, dalton, rivers and rothlesburger the only difference is they did not also run for 700+ yards. yup he got stopped lol. Yo man do you research what you say or do you just enjoy spouting off nonsense?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2013 08:31AM by Miami Reppa.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: BigNastyFish ()
Date: January 26, 2013 08:52AM


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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 26, 2013 09:03AM

JC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ChyrenB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >
> > The one exception was in the SuperBowl against
> the
> > Dallas Cowboys as the announcers on the NFL
> Films
> > stated when he "reverted to his scrambling
> past"
> > for one play and ran back about 30 yards
> weaving
> > from left to right until he was there tackled.
> >
> >
>
> UGH I remember that play vs Dallas. That sucked!


THEY ARE ABOUT TO RE-RUN THAT SUPERBOWL ON THE NFL NETWORK STARTING AS OF THE TIME OF THIS POST.

RIGHT NOW.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 26, 2013 10:40AM

Sorry but they decided to cover a press conference by Coach Harbaugh of the Ravens for that 30 minutes, they went between the Colts-Cowboys SuperBowl and resumed with our first SuperBowl against the Redskins.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: January 26, 2013 04:20PM

It takes more than stats to be a good QB Scam's team will never win because he is a me 1st player, and dumb as a brick. You can say whatever you want however give me a smart QB that can read defenses over one that can't read at all, and my team beats yours 8 of of 10 times. What most QB's are 1st, and foremost are leaders Scam will never ever lead too busy being a glory hound party punk.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: January 26, 2013 04:24PM

By the way Scam comes to South Florida next season to play the phins. I hope like hell to be their so that I can laugh his sorry ass right out of the stadium. The phins have a bright future with Tannehill. The Panthers drafted a spoiled kid who's daddy controls him so much for leadership.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 26, 2013 04:28PM

Didn't we play them in pre season this year? Seems to me we did.

And LOL who is your Lex Luther on your kick about this. I remember you had a year long battle with someone about this. Was it A & O?

Finshady, you are a romantic in the classical sense of the word and that definition is that you are someone who can always be relied on to act in the manner expected.

And you definitely will never stop hating on who you have named "Scam" Newton. LOL.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: toko34 ()
Date: January 26, 2013 04:53PM

Montana was kind of a scrambler, in his early years(the super bowl ones). Later in his career he was more of a pocket passer. Warren Moon, was kind of also...although he kind of opted to never really run for it, he had the legs.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: January 27, 2013 06:07AM

I don't like Scam, Auburn, Alabama Nick the prick Saban the hell with all of those dumb ass rednecks, and their obsession with college football.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Miami Reppa ()
Date: January 27, 2013 10:20AM


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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 27, 2013 11:30AM


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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: January 27, 2013 01:32PM

I like Tannehill because he plays QB for the phins. Would I like him to be Dan Marino hell yes, but he won't be nobody ever will be. However he proved last year that he understands the game, and can make all of the throws. Yes he is athletic. I don't like that because he will get hurt by running the ball when plays break down. I just think that we haven't had stability for so at the QB position that seeing Tannehill play good at times as a rookie gives me hope about this franchise for the future. Would I like a standard drop back passer hell yes, but Tannehill is not really that player. You play the cards your dealt, and hopefully you can bluff someone else off of their hand.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: January 27, 2013 01:56PM

I wasn't trying to imply anything about how you felt about Tannehill, Finshady. In fact, I never knew your position on him. I was just saying that I couldn't figure out why you cared so much ABOUT Cam Newton since he was not our quarterback. Obviously it had to do with college rivalry.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: January 27, 2013 02:24PM

Have you ever been to Alabama? Those people live, breathe, eat, sleep Alabama, and Auburn football. It is sickening really. I mean they plan weddings, and funerals around their games. Yet the majority of the players on Alabama, and Auburn never would be invited to half of the homes of their fans that attend the games. Yet they cheer like hell for them on Saturdays. Don't get me started my relatives that in the state are crazy football crazy sad really.

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Miami Reppa ()
Date: January 28, 2013 09:46AM

Finshady Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like Tannehill because he plays QB for the
> phins. Would I like him to be Dan Marino hell
> yes, but he won't be nobody ever will be. However
> he proved last year that he understands the game,
> and can make all of the throws. Yes he is
> athletic. I don't like that because he will get
> hurt by running the ball when plays break down. I
> just think that we haven't had stability for so at
> the QB position that seeing Tannehill play good at
> times as a rookie gives me hope about this
> franchise for the future. Would I like a standard
> drop back passer hell yes, but Tannehill is not
> really that player. You play the cards your
> dealt, and hopefully you can bluff someone else
> off of their hand.


Come on man you have made it quite clear how you feel about athletic qb's so stick to your guns man. you dont have to like one now just because he is a dolphin. Infact if you like tannehill then you are going against EVERYTHING you have been preaching all these years! If you are a dolphin fan you can say I hope tannehill does well and can help us as a team do well, but when you say... and I quote "Tannehill has a bright future" that has nothing to do with being a dolphin fan that has to do with watching a kid play and you like what he brings to the table.

Again as I said your issue is not athletic qb's persay... if it was you would not say "tannehill has a bright future". The kid was an ex wide out for pete sake! No starting qb in the NFL can say that they led there college team at WR! NOONE!

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Re: Running QB's cant make it to the superbowl...
Posted by: Finshady ()
Date: January 28, 2013 03:58PM

My motivation is that I am a purist of the game, and grew up watching Marino. It does not get any better than watching him drop back, and tear up a defense without the threat of running at all. Now given that I am a fan of this team I like Tannehill. Is he Marino hell no. Can he play well yes, but he needs to use his legs and ad lib. Look at Peyton, and Brady, Brees,Eli. I could go on, but I won't. Now their is a new age QB that is more athletic. Russell Wilson being a great example. If only he was 4 inches taller, and had a rocket arm then the sky would be the limit for that type of player. My last point could Brady make our team better?
Would we have been better last year with Brady I think hell yes. You can't teach pocket presence, and reading defenses. Now to mention changing plays at the line of scrimmage. I would take a young Marino over any QB playing today, and Reppa I think you would as well.

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