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          Fair assessment of Dolphins
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This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: August 25, 2011 07:31AM


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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: Doug-THE-Dolfan ()
Date: August 25, 2011 07:37AM

Nice article. I think of the 5 areas of concern, the depth at WR is the only one we will have any issues with this year.

13-3 and SB win.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: August 25, 2011 07:40AM

I think its more the depth at the OL.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: August 31, 2011 01:46PM

As a diehard Dolphin hopefull I go into every year with optimism and look for the potential in each team.

2009 had high expectations that turned into bitter disappointment. Ditto for last year.

One thing different this year that I am desperately clinging to is a vibe I've picked up from several players and echoed by the HC.

I see a team that has something that can't be measured and can't be counted and ranked on PFF. Chemistry.

If guys like each other and respect each other then deficiencies can be overcome. It could go a long way towards succes if they're willing to fight for each other and watch their backs.

I see an underdog Dolphins team that is going to surprise a lot of people that think this is a last place team.

No way we are worse than Buffalo. New York is going to have a melt down because they have been too cocky over the last two years even though they have been very fortunate. I don't see good team building moves from them....more push all your chips in the middle of the table and win now attitudes.

NE is still going to be tough but we will have the element of surprise on our side in week one because they are not expecting what we are going to give them and no one has really seen our offense yet.

Chemistry goes a long way. Individuals don't win consistently but teams do...and I like the team we have...even if we have a few perceived weaknesses.

Sorry for the optimism. I know it really pisses some of you knee jerkin nay sayers off.

Go Dolphins!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 01, 2011 04:44AM

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

New York is
> going to have a melt down because they have been
> too cocky over the last two years even though they
> have been very fortunate. I don't see good team
> building moves from them....more push all your
> chips in the middle of the table and win now
> attitudes.
>


> Go Dolphins!


I can't wait for them to fail so i can see Rex HAMBONE Ryan cry like an overweight LIL girl again.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: BigNastyFish ()
Date: September 01, 2011 06:27AM

Personally I can’t stand lard ass Ryan but the oinker has gotten his team into the playoffs every year and he beat NE on their own turf to make it to the AFC championship game.
So let’s not be absolute homers – there’s no reason to believe that team is suddenly going to implode with another year under Ryan’s guidance. The dude is arrogant and full of self-inflated hype – but he HAS PRODUCED – and that’s the only barometer that matters…

As far as NE – Billygoat is certainly the biggest dirty cheating sphincter in the NFL but the bitch can also coach – and his ability to game plan is probably at the top of the league. Couple that with Mr. Polished Nails Brady and their **wink** legalized holding protection scheme and they can still score points in bunches.

So what does Miami really have? Sparano has proven to be an ineffective game-day coach who doesn’t bring anything “special” to either side of the ball. He’s just a football “mechanic” and not an engineer. His supposed forte – being the OL, certainly hasn’t shown anything extraordinary in any way. Frankly, as we all know, the OL has been largely a disappointment.

At QB we have ??? and that’s being kind IMO. Certainly, if we go on past experience, it’s fair to say we have obvious “issues” at the position. It seems reasonable if we spend another 2 or 3 first-round picks on the OL we could be OK. But this regime has seriously stunk the place up in drafting OL outside of R1.

The D looks good on paper – and our best coach runs that show. The D could be (???) very impressive but they really haven’t proven anything definitive yet. So its fantasy IMO to believe this team will have a truly dominant D. Can this D wins games on its own? I don’t think we have that kind of dominant talent…

So we’re still a team “rebuilding” and ramping up – not a finished product by any measure. Couple that with Sparano as the master mind mechanic and there’s no way we’re better than 3rd in the AFC East. And that’s the way this team is viewed from the outside.

Sure things could really go our way and all the critical questions somehow find an optimum answer – but the odds of that are very low. We’re stuck in the mid 500 pack and looking at a top 15 pick – once again not high enough to really solve our core problem. That’s the definition of mediocrity IMO.

But yea, we should beat the crap out of Buffalo. I’m on board for that!

BNF.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: September 01, 2011 08:50AM

Same negative crap in EVERY SINGLE THREAD. Why do people feel the need to post the same repetitive "we suck" bs in every thread no matter the topic?

Last I checked we haven't even played a game yet.

Never seen such losing mentality in my life.

Guess what people. Bill Cowher wouldn't be anything without a top personnel man in Pit....last I checked he is still in Pit.

Personally I don't want a coach that decides to unretire...it will be just like Parcels...never know when they are gonna burn out and quit on ya again..

Secondly...no chance in hell we are getting Andrew Luck.

Sure glad Sparano and our players don't have this defeatist attitude.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: JC ()
Date: September 01, 2011 10:08AM

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>


> Personally I don't want a coach that decides to
> unretire...it will be just like Parcels...never
> know when they are gonna burn out and quit on ya
> again..
>

and just like Jimmy Johnson, who quit, came back, didn't have his heart in it, and quit again while handing the job to Wanny.


> Secondly...no chance in hell we are getting Andrew
> Luck.

Right. And if we did, anybody want to guess whether he'd be trashed on message boards everywhere?


>
> Sure glad Sparano and our players don't have this
> defeatist attitude.


Amen. And thank God that's all that counts come game day.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: seadevil ()
Date: September 01, 2011 11:09AM

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Personally I can’t stand lard ass Ryan but the oinker has gotten his team into the playoffs every year and he beat NE on their own turf to make it to the AFC championship game.
So let’s not be absolute homers – there’s no reason to believe that team is suddenly going to implode with another year under Ryan’s guidance. The dude is arrogant and full of self-inflated hype – but he HAS PRODUCED – and that’s the only barometer that matters…


Miami has beaten him. Marshall scored on Revis too.


> As far as NE – Billygoat is certainly the biggest dirty cheating sphincter in the NFL but the bitch can also coach – and his ability to game plan is probably at the top of the league. Couple that with Mr. Polished Nails Brady and their **wink** legalized holding protection scheme and they can still score points in bunches.

What do you mean his “ability to game plan is probably at the top of the league?”

How so?

Can you give us an example?



> So what does Miami really have? Sparano has proven to be an ineffective game-day coach who doesn’t bring anything “special” to either side of the ball.

Sparano’s road winning percentage (.625) is the highest career road winning percentage of any coach in Dolphin history.



> He’s just a football “mechanic” and not an engineer.

Was Don Shula an “engineer?”


> His supposed forte – being the OL, certainly hasn’t shown anything extraordinary in any way. Frankly, as we all know, the OL has been largely a disappointment.

Except that the Dolphins were essentially an 8-8 team last season, with victories over the Jets and Packers, and basically the Steelers too. So, the OLine couldn’t have been as poor as you’re suggesting.

The Dolphins Oline didn’t commit many penalties, have produced a thousand yard rusher, and Sparano & co. have developed Jake Long well enough to be a Pro Bowl player.



> At QB we have ??? and that’s being kind IMO. Certainly, if we go on past experience, it’s fair to say we have obvious “issues” at the position.

The Dolphins have a young QB that has shown developmental improvement.

Henne can make every throw and was the fourth quarterback in team history to throw for 3,000 or more yards in a season.


> It seems reasonable if we spend another 2 or 3 first-round picks on the OL we could be OK. But this regime has seriously stunk the place up in drafting OL outside of R1.

Well, what should the failure rate be for drafting players?


> The D looks good on paper – and our best coach runs that show. The D could be (???) very impressive but they really haven’t proven anything definitive yet. So its fantasy IMO to believe this team will have a truly dominant D. Can this D wins games on its own? I don’t think we have that kind of dominant talent…

Right, the Dolphins defense looks good “on paper.”

It’s a fantasy to believe that the Dolphins defense is going to fade away, they are just now coming into their prime.



> So we’re still a team “rebuilding” and ramping up – not a finished product by any measure.

Whatever that’s supposed to mean.

Good teams are always rebuilding.


> Couple that with Sparano as the master mind mechanic and there’s no way we’re better than 3rd in the AFC East. And that’s the way this team is viewed from the outside.

“No way?” lol. Brilliant.



> Sure things could really go our way and all the critical questions somehow find an optimum answer – but the odds of that are very low.

What were the odds of Miami winning the division two seasons ago?



> We’re stuck in the mid 500 pack and looking at a top 15 pick – once again not high enough to really solve our core problem. That’s the definition of mediocrity IMO.

> But yea, we should beat the crap out of Buffalo. I’m on board for that!

> BNF.


The Dolphins aren't actually "stuck" anywhere, that's just your prediction on how the season will turn out. Your prediction is non-controversial; many are saying the same thing


I predict, Dolphins 45, Patriots 17.


Imagine if that were to happen, then we on the board would have to deal with an endless parade of bandwagoneers, and the return of the Fair-Weather-Fans, and the media lying to our faces about how they had, in reality, told us so all along.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: BigNastyFish ()
Date: September 01, 2011 12:02PM

Yo football Einstein, this team has finished BELOW 500 2 years in a row. Before that we got lucky with Chad P falling into our laps for one season coupled with a limp schedule (blown out in R1 of the playoffs and essentially revealed as the “AFC East Champion fraud”). And before that we were --- what was the record --- oh yea, one and FIFTEEN!

And when’s the last time this team actually won a playoff game? And how long since we won a Super Bowl?

Got it? Based on the REALITY of recent history (including our 3 stooge’s episode chasing Waldo across the country) this franchise has yet to recover and doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. Now you have every right to put your baby teeth under the pillow and wish for a winning season and a 99.5 passer rating for Henne, but don’t be surprised if the fairy disappoints.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: seadevil ()
Date: September 01, 2011 12:40PM

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yo football Einstein, this team has finished BELOW 500 2 years in a row.

Yes, but there are reasons for that, and a “fair assessment” is what’s accordingly due, Hoss, not some slap-happy.


> Before that we got lucky with Chad P falling into our laps for one season coupled with a limp schedule (blown out in R1 of the playoffs and essentially revealed as the “AFC East Champion fraud”).

The Dolphins acquired an upgrade, and you describe it as luck. Well, we’ll never really know, so, you can be happy to harbor all ill in proposition.


> And before that we were --- what was the record --- oh yea, one and FIFTEEN!

> And when’s the last time this team actually won a playoff game? And how long since we won a Super Bowl?

Irrelevant observations really, the question is winning the SB this season, not 1 & 15 or other Dolphins' history.


> Got it? Based on the REALITY of recent history (including our 3 stooge’s episode chasing Waldo across the country) this franchise has yet to recover and doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. Now you have every right to put your baby teeth under the pillow and wish for a winning season and a 99.5 passer rating for Henne, but don’t be surprised if the fairy disappoints.

Yeah, I get it. Your hatred for certain Dolphins employees might have clouded your judgment a bit.

We’ll see soon enough if Henne is ready, until then, your continued lambasting of the Dolphins can only work to hurt team morale.

It’s no wonder that the Dolphins haven’t been playing well at home.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: (R/J)ay ()
Date: September 01, 2011 12:49PM

I didn't post the negative crap in this thread, but I think I can tell you why some people are posting it:

Because 7-9 is a suck record and the Dolphins didn't make any key upgrades that would lead any rational person to believe they'll be significantly better than that.

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Same negative crap in EVERY SINGLE THREAD. Why do
> people feel the need to post the same repetitive
> "we suck" bs in every thread no matter the topic?

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: BigNastyFish ()
Date: September 01, 2011 12:55PM

Ya know dude, you actually say NOTHING with a lot of words – so I’ll cut ya some slack and just say the proof is in ACTUAL RECORD year after year.

And yea, Chad P was a total gift falling into this teams lap. And any serious fan understands that 100%. I guess you think these idiots actually “planned” on that happening? So you think Ireland and co. are psychic?

Please, like I said, put your baby teeth under the pillow. You want to live in some altered universe where the Dolphins are winning organization and not just recycling the SOS from 40 years ago – feel free. I’m just a little bit past that stage.

“It’s no wonder that the Dolphins haven’t been playing well at home.”

So in your opinion the FANS are the problem? WOW.

Just ***king WOW!

The excuses for peeps like you just never end. They only get more and more ridiculous…

BNF.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: seadevil ()
Date: September 01, 2011 01:14PM

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ya know dude, you actually say NOTHING with a lot of words – so I’ll cut ya some slack and just say the proof is in ACTUAL RECORD year after year.

And for our purposes, a “fair assessment” of that record. Is that too much to ask from you?


> And yea, Chad P was a total gift falling into this teams lap. And any serious fan understands that 100%. I guess you think these idiots actually “planned” on that happening? So you think Ireland and co. are psychic?

No, just that the FO deserves some credit for acquiring the guy, and negotiating the deal, yes, the fortunate aspect I believe we’ve covered before. Fortune shines on in the NFL, just like in life, woe unto you.


> “It’s no wonder that the Dolphins haven’t
> been playing well at home.”
>
> So in your opinion the FANS are the problem? WOW.
>
>
> Just ***king WOW!
>
> The excuses for peeps like you just never end.
> They only get more and more ridiculous…
>
> BNF.


You’ve purposefully overblown my position. But the fan issue is an interesting observation, is it not? You’re one for the “record,” what does the record suggest?

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: September 01, 2011 02:19PM

Every Dolphin fan is sick of not being a contender. We get it.

That's no reason to constantly spew negativity. Every team is 0 and 0 right now.

I'm not calling anyone out personally. This just happened to be the thread that broke the camels back so to speak.

To say we have made any key upgrades is just anger over not adding a big name QB or lineman. I was disappointed too but I must say I am happy from what I've seen from Henne and our new OC.

There are two key upgrades right there. Henne is getting better and so is the scheme. Its all speculation at this point but it is looking up.

Its a little early to judge but last year doesn't matter. 1 and 15 record certainly doesn't matter. It was a different team top to bottom.

I also give credit to the staff for bringing in Chad P and thinking he could help. If you remember...everyone thought he was washed up after too many injuries. The staff thought different and turned him into a top 12 qb and cbpoy.

Any serious fan understands it was a gift? Its not like we just signed a sure thing franchise qb. He hadn't been good for years and was competing for a starting spot with Kellen Clemens. He was cut from a team bc of constant injury problems and multiple shoulder surgeries. How on earth is that a gift?

Peyton Manning...Drew Brees....Phillip Rivers....they would have been gifts. Chad P....not so much.

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: September 02, 2011 05:23AM

Chad P was a gift to Parcells and the coaching staff (particularly Dan Henning). It made them look like geniuses. Unfortunately, it gave fans a false sense of hope. Sometimes gambles pay off, like they did with Penny...in the short term.

The bad part of having Penny was:

1. It kept Henne from developing
2. It made fans fickle, as they kept comparing Henne to Penny
3. It gave us a hole on our roster when we THOUGHT we had a legit backup
4. It meant we kept Henning around WAY too long

So, as much as Penny was great for us in '08, he only hurt us in '09 and '10. In retrospect, if Penny would have retired at the end of the '08 season and gone out on top, it would have been better for everyone.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: September 02, 2011 10:06AM

I never understand why people so fondly remember Pennington. He led us to the 21st ranked offense in the league. We didn't convert a 3rd and long until week 15 of the season, and were the worst 3rd down team in the league. Every game, we would put together two or three good, long drives where everything worked. But, other than those drives, the offense struggled to move the ball. The offense was lousy in the two minute drill. And I think Pennington threw a total of 5 TD passes to a WR. The novelty of the wildcat saved the offense. And the fact that we managed to barely squeak by several very bad opponents. But, Pennington hardly had this offense on the right track. When opposing defenses admitted that they would ignore entire parts of the field because they knew Pennington couldn't throw the ball that far, you know your offense is limited.

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 02, 2011 10:35AM

Dolfanmark,
People fondly remember Pennington, because he won eleven games, and didnt turn the ball over and lead our team to the first AFC East Title in a long time.
You are right though he had his share of issues and the dominance of the run game and offensive line, combined with minimum mistakes from the QB lead to us having a nice run of success.
Pennington's problem was defenders could give a certain amount of cushion to the recievers along with safeties and zone football, that made it easier for the defense to cover alot of the field and still break up his pass. Henne doesnt have those problems, but he has problems that Pennington didnt have. That is why Henning failed, his offense didnt match the skill sets Chad Henne possessed.
The main difference between Penningtons success, and Henne's perceived lack there of or less wins are turnovers and success of the running game. But Chad Henne needs to understand to not be afraid, if he throws 15 more touchdowns, he is allowed to have more interceptions, so open it up, get ahead in the TD to INT ratio and then let it rip as he likes to say... Play fearless football, and people will follow him... Get behind, play scared, and he is in trouble...

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Re: Fair assessment of Dolphins
Posted by: dolfanmark ()
Date: September 02, 2011 02:50PM

> That is why Henning failed,
> his offense didnt match the skill sets Chad Henne
> possessed.
> The main difference between Penningtons success,
> and Henne's perceived lack there of or less wins
> are turnovers and success of the running game.

Remember, the 2009 offense under Henne was better at scoring points than the 2008 offense under Pennington. But, the defense that dominated the very weak 2008 schedule regressed. Hence, the 2009 draft that focused on defense. Pennington was very efficient statistically in 2008, but our offense wasn't good. 21st in the league in points scored doesn't cut it. In some ways, that season was unfortunate, because it raised people's expectations of how quickly this team could be turned around. The 2008 team only won the division because Tom Brady got hurt. And our schedule really was pitifully weak. And we just barely won some games against awful teams that a good team would crush. The 11-5 record was a mirage.

As for what defenses did with Pennington. Several teams said that if the Dolphins had the ball on the far right hash, they wouldn't bother covering outside of the left hash because they knew he couldn't get it there. People like to dump on Henne as "check down Chad," and they long for the days of Pennington. But, Pennington lived and died with 5-10 yard passes.

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