Whatever happened to keeping one's word and honoring a contract?

I mean it's not like players have to give money back if they under perform.

And nobody held a gun to his head when he signed his last contract.

I like wake. I agree he's underpaid. But he made an agreement. he should just STF up and honor his commitment.

When he has the hammer as a free agent after this season he'll get paid.

Wake should hold out. This is a business screw honor its 2012. Look how they showed Carey the door after he took one for the team.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever happened to keeping one's word and
> honoring a contract?
>
> I mean it's not like players have to give money
> back if they under perform.
>
> And nobody held a gun to his head when he signed
> his last contract.
>
> I like wake. I agree he's underpaid. But he
> made an agreement. he should just STF up and
> honor his commitment.
>
> When he has the hammer as a free agent after this
> season he'll get paid.


Yeah thats great. We will atrract alot of free agents with that attitude. And we will motiviate several other Diamounds in the ruff to play better. First they screw over Bell by releasing him a week after free agency , now they don't want to pay those that surely deserve it. Keep it up Miami......you will have the Cheap Team you are looking to Pay for.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wake should hold out. This is a business screw
> honor its 2012. Look how they showed Carey the
> door after he took one for the team.


Don't kid yourself. Carey didn't take one for the team. He took one for himself. He was offered the choice of a pay cut or a release last year. HE CHOSE THE PAY CUT.

You are right about one thing though...this is a business. Both sides agreed to the rules for contracts and compensation. Both sides should honor that negotiated agreement.

Wake would be an idiot to hold out. He'll get nothing for it under the new CBA.

If I were Ireland and he held out I'd trade him to the worst team/city I could find to take him.

If you cave to one hold out you'll have guys holding out every year.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2012 08:54AM by THE Truth.

I only HOPE we have Players that have performed as well as Wake holding out. And trading one of our Best players at a position of need is the Ultimate case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Whatever happened to keeping one's word and
> > honoring a contract?
> >
> > I mean it's not like players have to give money
> > back if they under perform.
> >
> > And nobody held a gun to his head when he
> signed
> > his last contract.
> >
> > I like wake. I agree he's underpaid. But he
> > made an agreement. he should just STF up and
> > honor his commitment.
> >
> > When he has the hammer as a free agent after
> this
> > season he'll get paid.
>
>
> Yeah thats great. We will atrract alot of free
> agents with that attitude. And we will motiviate
> several other Diamounds in the ruff to play
> better. First they screw over Bell by releasing
> him a week after free agency , now they don't want
> to pay those that surely deserve it. Keep it up
> Miami......you will have the Cheap Team you are
> looking to Pay for.

There's a HUGE difference between being cheap and refusing to give money away.

It's not a hard system to comprehend. You pay, even over pay, when guys have leverage.

Long is the highest paid olineman in the league. Dansby is the highest paid LB. Marshall was the top paid WR. We over paid for smiley, grove, etc.

Wake agreed to a deal. He should honor it and give management a chance to work out an extension in private. Not with a gun to their head.

But don't fret tcpf. If you get your way and we renegotiate team friendly contracts early we won't have any cap space to sign big time free agents in a year or two.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I only HOPE we have Players that have performed as
> well as Wake holding out. And trading one of our
> Best players at a position of need is the Ultimate
> case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.


No. It's not.

You are trading a guy that is refusing to play. You are getting something for nothing.

Put yourself in owner sips shoes. You have a limited amount of money to spend on your team. You sign a 4 year deal with a FREE AGENT who takes that deal over a half dozen others. You factor that cost into your team structure for the next 4 years. Then suddenly he wants to re-negotiate going into the last year and holds out until he gets his way. You then have to decide whether or not to cave and rework you business plan a year ahead of schedule or trading him.

Trading him gets you picks in return.

Caving into him sets you up for holdouts from every player on your roster.

It's why nations like ours have policies like not negotiating with terrorists (and I'm not calling wake a terrorist). Once you make a deal with someone who has a gun to your head everyone will use a gun to get what they want.

There's no way you can run a franchise by caving into every player who holds out because he thinks he's under paid now.

I'd have thought a former cop would get that.

How Does New England get it done year in and year out then? Bottom Line.......Ireland needs to handle this better.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How Does New England get it done year in and year
> out then? Bottom Line.......Ireland needs to
> handle this better.


Because belechick TRADES anyone who holds out or is in line for a huge payday or looks to be a nightmare of a negotiation because their demands are way off what NE is willing to pay.

Ask Richard Seymour.

Ask Wes Welker.

Ask Vince wilfork.

They traded Seymour when his demands were too high.

The franchised Welker because they had leverage and are using that leverage to get the best deal for the team they can so they have as much cap flexibility as possible every year.

They renegotiated with wilfork behind the scenes and worked out a deal.

My way IS the patriots way. I hope Ireland is going to run that type of franchise.

If he caves to wake, he'll never get that back. You can forget about being like the pats after that.

Plus we're in the first year of a new CBA that pays the players alot less money, it's gonna take these guys a little getting used to it, but they're gonna have to adjust and lower their demands (i'm not sure what Wake want's so this is a more generalized statement). That's why I think Buffalo was stupid to give Mario that much money, maybe they have it structured so they don't get killed down the line, but those type of contracts are gonna be few and far between IMO.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever happened to keeping one's word and
> honoring a contract?
>
> I mean it's not like players have to give money
> back if they under perform.
>
> And nobody held a gun to his head when he signed
> his last contract.
>
> I like wake. I agree he's underpaid. But he
> made an agreement. he should just STF up and
> honor his commitment.
>
> When he has the hammer as a free agent after this
> season he'll get paid.


Come on Truth, you are WAY too smart for that. It goes both ways. The minute a player underperforms his contract the team cuts him, despite the "sanctity of contract." Look at Y Bell just this month.
This is Wake's only means of leverage. He's out performed his deal the past 2 years, if he wants to try to get a reworked deal now I say he deserves it.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

and folks wonder why the big name free agents do not want to play in Miami. Yeah screw the players over and some of the demented fans actually like it.

All those players for the Pat's had already had big payday's. This is Wakes first and he deserves it. That's why I always root for ex dolphins when they leave.

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > THE Truth Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Whatever happened to keeping one's word and
> > > honoring a contract?
> > >
> > > I mean it's not like players have to give
> money
> > > back if they under perform.
> > >
> > > And nobody held a gun to his head when he
> > signed
> > > his last contract.
> > >
> > > I like wake. I agree he's underpaid. But
> he
> > > made an agreement. he should just STF up
> and
> > > honor his commitment.
> > >
> > > When he has the hammer as a free agent after
> > this
> > > season he'll get paid.
> >
> >
> > Yeah thats great. We will atrract alot of free
> > agents with that attitude. And we will
> motiviate
> > several other Diamounds in the ruff to play
> > better. First they screw over Bell by
> releasing
> > him a week after free agency , now they don't
> want
> > to pay those that surely deserve it. Keep it up
> > Miami......you will have the Cheap Team you are
> > looking to Pay for.
>
> There's a HUGE difference between being cheap and
> refusing to give money away.
>
> It's not a hard system to comprehend. You pay,
> even over pay, when guys have leverage.
>
> Long is the highest paid olineman in the league.
> Dansby is the highest paid LB. Marshall was the
> top paid WR. We over paid for smiley, grove,
> etc.
>
> Wake agreed to a deal. He should honor it and
> give management a chance to work out an extension
> in private. Not with a gun to their head.
>
> But don't fret tcpf. If you get your way and we
> renegotiate team friendly contracts early we won't
> have any cap space to sign big time free agents in
> a year or two.

********************************************************

I agree with ya Truth, 100%, however.....

We are talking sports, here. They don't honor contracts the way we regular people/businesses do. Wake signed a contract for so much $ for so many years -- honor it!!! The problem is that no one in sports honors their contracts. Hell, guys have signed the richest contracts in NFL history, then somebody signs one a little higher the next season. Guess what? The first guy now wants to renegotiate his contract!!!

That's why it will be difficult for Ireland to ignore Wake's demands. Miami will have this guy for another year and if Ireland doesn't give him a new contract, then Wake goes half speed through the season and Miami doesn't get their money's worth.

I also agree, Truth, that these guys have a poor season (or two, or three) and they sure in hell aren't going to call in Ireland to renegotiate their contract DOWN to match their level of play. Of course, if they do play that poorly for that long, then the team just ups and cuts the guy.

Treasure, I hear what you are saying, and I only agree with you in the sense of today's sports scene, not in principle. Today's sports figures don't believe in contracts, unless that contract benefits them.

I agree with you, also, about Bell -- (on the surface) they should have let him go earlier so he can pick up with another team. But, we don't know what was going on behind the scenes as to why it happened.

Yes, I agree, Wake does deserve a pay raise, but as Truth said, he does have a valid contract, as is.

One thing Wake and a lot of players forget -- where were they before a team like Miami took a chance on them where no other team would? In Wake's case, he'd still be in the Canadian Football League making "pennies." He is a great talent and should be paid, but once his contract is about up, then rework it and get the money that is deserved.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and folks wonder why the big name free agents do
> not want to play in Miami. Yeah screw the players
> over and some of the demented fans actually like
> it.
>
> All those players for the Pat's had already had
> big payday's. This is Wakes first and he deserves
> it. That's why I always root for ex dolphins when
> they leave.

****************************************************

How the hell do you figure that Miami is "screwing over" the players? They have a damn contract, and it is a contract the player and his agent thought was good (originally). Why else would they have signed it in the first place?

The player has a contract in hand, and is legal and valid, and he won't show up, especially with a new coaching staff? Give me a break.

Demented fans? Maybe those "demented fans" are the ones who work for a living and hope that at some point, they can get a pay raise, or...maybe those "demented fans" are the ones who no longer have a job? Are those the demented fans you are speaking of, Mizzou?

While these players think that their million dollar contracts are not good enough, maybe they should bring those contracts with them and talk to the people on the street and see how much sympathy they can get.

I guess those must be the demented fans you are talking about.

Yes, Wake deserves a pay raise....once his contract is over! But, as we all know, and as I said in an earlier post, that's just not the way it works in sports.

If the shoe fits. You are demented to think that anybody who performs their job better than everybody else is not ENTITLED to ask for more. This is America buddy and if you do the work you get the money. This guy is the best player on our D and I would like to see him get his raise because HE DESERVES IT!

They should not sign him and let him go so he can go to new england like welker so they can keep kicking our asses for the next ten years.

damn right. Now I am really pissed because fans like the previous poster says nothing when folks were just talking about the team needing to renew Longs contract. I think Long is great but he was the number on pick in the draft. He has a nice big contract. Sheesh just reward Wake he freaking deserves it.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> damn right. Now I am really pissed because fans
> like the previous poster says nothing when folks
> were just talking about the team needing to renew
> Longs contract. I think Long is great but he was
> the number on pick in the draft. He has a nice big
> contract. Sheesh just reward Wake he freaking
> deserves it.

************************************************************

Evidently you only read a couple of words from my post.

You are right, I didn't say anything about Long specifically....because I lumped ALL the sports figures into one pile. I thought you would get that, but I guess I was wrong.

NO ONE should be sitting out/holding out when they have a valid contract....NO ONE!

Long got lucky in the contract he got because he was the number one pick before the new deal (for rookies) came in. Long, IN NO WAY, deserves the contract he received. And, IMO, NO ONE in sports deserves those millions of dollars to play a sport.

Give that damn money to our military, police force, and our firemen. Take it away from our Congress and Senate. What the hell have they done to deserve that kind of money AND pensions?

BTW, Mizzou, I also agreed with you (in my last post) that Wake should get that raise because that's just the way it is in sports.

Maybe you should read everyone's post BEFORE you get pissed.

Don't forget, Wake is 30 not 26.

People seem to think just because he hasn't been here that long that he is a Spring Chicken, no...dude is starting to get old...in terms of football years.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

THE Truth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever happened to keeping one's word and
> honoring a contract?
>
> I mean it's not like players have to give money
> back if they under perform.
>
> And nobody held a gun to his head when he signed
> his last contract.
>
> I like wake. I agree he's underpaid. But he
> made an agreement. he should just STF up and
> honor his commitment.
>
> When he has the hammer as a free agent after this
> season he'll get paid.


All one has to do is to consider the idiocy of The Truth's point of view and see how they match that of this Front Office to explain how both have a cock-eyed view of the world and also explain why we lose our asses off and how no one wants to play for us.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> THE Truth Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Whatever happened to keeping one's word and
> > honoring a contract?
> >
> > I mean it's not like players have to give money
> > back if they under perform.
> >
> > And nobody held a gun to his head when he
> signed
> > his last contract.
> >
> > I like wake. I agree he's underpaid. But he
> > made an agreement. he should just STF up and
> > honor his commitment.
> >
> > When he has the hammer as a free agent after
> this
> > season he'll get paid.
>
>
> Come on Truth, you are WAY too smart for that. It
> goes both ways. The minute a player underperforms
> his contract the team cuts him, despite the
> "sanctity of contract." Look at Y Bell just this
> month.

That's the system the players signed up for. I don't feel sorry for them at all.

They made a deal that sees them get money up front in exchange for the risk of being a cap casualty as they get older and/or near the end of a deal.

They agree to this because it gets them more job security. If they had a system like the NBA or Baseball where all contracts were completely guaranteed you'd never see a contract for more than 2 or 3 years and they'd be for less money.



> This is Wake's only means of leverage. He's out
> performed his deal the past 2 years, if he wants
> to try to get a reworked deal now I say he
> deserves it.

Wake has NO leverage unless the Dolphins panic and give it to him.

He has a contract. He can honor it or he can retire. His choice.

He'll get paid when he's a free agent.

Until then I have no issue with him showing up for the minimum required workouts and OTA's. Its his right.

If he has a brain in his head he'll realize he made his point and shut up and show up from here on out. that gives the team a chance to wait a bit and then work out a deal. Like the US removing missiles from turkey 6 months after the cuban missile crisis....

Wake deserves a pay raise no doubt. That's not even close to being in question. If I was the GM I'd make it clear to him that every day he does not report to the off season programs, his current value to the team drops. The longer he waits the less we will offer him and the more unfriendly the terms will become. The choice would be his.

I'd also let him know that he is currently a very valued member of this team that will get a new contract offer comensurate with his talents and production. But, it'd be made very, very, clear that extortion will not get it done for him. My policy would be, do your job, per your contract, and you'll get paid fairly for your services.

If he then reported to OTA's without any hold out we'd CONSIDER talking about things early...but not before he started working.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the shoe fits. You are demented to think that
> anybody who performs their job better than
> everybody else is not ENTITLED to ask for more.
> This is America buddy and if you do the work you
> get the money. This guy is the best player on our
> D and I would like to see him get his raise
> because HE DESERVES IT!


That's bullshit.

If I sign a contract with a guy to add a floor to my house and he wins some award after from Better Homes and Gardens he doesn't have the right to refuse to complete his contract.

Wake has the right to ASK for more money.

The Dolphins have the right to tell him they'll discuss it after this deal is done.

No offense to Wake or any player, but I'm a dolphin fan. I want to see THEM be successful, not wreck their cap on a whim becasue some demented fans think their players should get a raise on their existing contract.

Bottomline for Miami is if they aren't going to extend him, they should TRADE him.

He's already north of 30 and his value would NEVER be higher.

Either way, I applaud them for not handling the issue in public.

mizzou15 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> damn right. Now I am really pissed because fans
> like the previous poster says nothing when folks
> were just talking about the team needing to renew
> Longs contract. I think Long is great but he was
> the number on pick in the draft. He has a nice big
> contract. Sheesh just reward Wake he freaking
> deserves it.


Nobody is saying wake doesn't deserve an extension or that Miami shouldn't give him one.

I'm saying they should NEVER negotiate with a player who is holding out.

Its a precedent that will destroy this front office if they are dumb enough to let Wake force them into setting it.

ok truth so what is your response when the owners cut a player in the middle of a contract they offered and signed, when it no longer works for them? a contract works both ways, you can't get indignant when a player doesn't report bc the deal isn't fair but have no issue when the owners cut a player with years left on the deal because they no longer like the deal they agreed to.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ok truth so what is your response when the owners
> cut a player in the middle of a contract they
> offered and signed, when it no longer works for
> them? a contract works both ways, you can't get
> indignant when a player doesn't report bc the deal
> isn't fair but have no issue when the owners cut a
> player with years left on the deal because they no
> longer like the deal they agreed to.


Berk...this is the system the PLAYERS collectively bargained.

THEY agreed to a system that pays them up front and isn't guaranteed beyond that.

You may not like the system. But they all signed off on it.

And this isn't new. They all signed off on this format TWICE.

Neither side has any right to complain.

Hey, one of you guys. Give it to him. Quote me.

Just for reference, Carolina just extended Steve Smith before his contract ended. It's at least the 3rd time his contract has been extended before it expired. I'm not saying this is how it has to be done, but teams can certainly target the players on their roster that they value and begin working on extensions, and it may be mutually beneficial. If I'm Wake, I want to know from Ireland why Hartline and Long are getting the contract extension love and not me? I do it in private and don't skip anything I normally wouldn't, but it's a glaring omission when the team begins work on extensions and doesn't include its best defensive player. Also, Omar reported that he and his agent have been trying to work on an extension for the past 2 seasons. It's not like this crept up on anybody.

I don't like the idea of him holding out, but my understanding is that these are not mandatory. He's made a point, and I hope he comes to the mandatory stuff as he should. I also hope that Ireland works hard to demonstrate how valuable Wake is to our team now and in the future.

tsstamper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just for reference, Carolina just extended Steve
> Smith before his contract ended. It's at least
> the 3rd time his contract has been extended before
> it expired. I'm not saying this is how it has to
> be done, but teams can certainly target the
> players on their roster that they value and begin
> working on extensions, and it may be mutually
> beneficial. If I'm Wake, I want to know from
> Ireland why Hartline and Long are getting the
> contract extension love and not me? I do it in
> private and don't skip anything I normally
> wouldn't, but it's a glaring omission when the
> team begins work on extensions and doesn't include
> its best defensive player. Also, Omar reported
> that he and his agent have been trying to work on
> an extension for the past 2 seasons. It's not
> like this crept up on anybody.
>
> I don't like the idea of him holding out, but my
> understanding is that these are not mandatory.
> He's made a point, and I hope he comes to the
> mandatory stuff as he should. I also hope that
> Ireland works hard to demonstrate how valuable
> Wake is to our team now and in the future.


Bad example tramp stamp, Carolina extended Smith because they were less then a million under the cap, all they did was turn his 7+ million due this year into an 8+ mil signing bonus so it can be extended over 4 years. Gaurenteed he'll never sniff the last two years of this contract, and when they do cut him, it'll be dead money on their cap. Bad way of doing biz