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          This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderator for this phorum is JC 
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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: April 11, 2012 06:21AM

They might, but they have extended him 3x without ever letting him hit the market and never hitting him with the tag. Once, according to this article, because he was outplaying his contract.

I think the most successful franchises are those who do a good job of home-growing their talent, identifying and prioritizing the ones they want to keep and then doing so in a way that is mutually beneficial.

Like I said, I don't want him to hold out and I think Ireland should work hard to demonstrate to him how valuable he is. If that means saying something privately like "we'll get it done and I think you'll be happy", then so be it. It's not like an extension has to get done now or even at all. Perhaps his long-term value to the Dolphins is at a place where they should just let him play it out, then either let him walk or franchise him. I'm not prescribing the method...just giving an opinion that Ireland should let him know how important he is. And, maybe he is doing that - what do I know?

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Date: April 11, 2012 07:20AM

ChyrenB Wrote:
>
> All one has to do is to consider the idiocy of The
> Truth's point of view and see how they match that
> of this Front Office to explain how both have a
> cock-eyed view of the world and also explain why
> we lose our asses off and how no one wants to play
> for us.



Well said .

We have had a PR nightmare here this off season. Ross has come out and stated he wants the best Team and will Pay. The keep saying the right things, but do otherwise. This was a perfect example to send a message , you Play 110% , actually More like 300% in Wakes case, and we will reward you. Why anyone would want to come here and be motivaited to out play the next guy is beyond me.

Truth, a contract is a contract. But you can also reward people who play far beyond any expectations. Finding a player like him outside the draft is a HUGE find. You don't think his agent has approached them behind the scenes already? Do you think a hold out benifits wake or him? Belichick would have taken care of a player of his calibur, if not for his performance , just to secure his reputation in the NFL. Looks like Ireland will continue to not give a shit what anyone thinks and will help prove what others have been saying about him is true.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: April 11, 2012 08:32AM

Let me preface my Wake comments by saying, I wan't him on the team and for him to get an extension.......but, I'm kinda scratching my head over the fan furor on him skipping some "voluntary" work outs.
By definition, they're voluntary, he has every right to stay away, secondly, this guy isn't an all time great that the team is treating bad, he was a street FA who signed for 4.9 mil (1 Mil signing bonus) and is coming off a very average year IMO, his numbers dropped drastically from 2010 (14 sacks in 10 to 8.5 in 11), how do we know 2010 wasn't a fluke? What if we give him huge money and he stays very average or worse? I'd like to see him in dbl digit sacks again before he gets a big raise.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Date: April 11, 2012 09:14AM

Keeping him at $650,000 will ensure another single digit year. And I know alot of Teams that would love to have a 8.5 sack DE, Let alone someone who managed 14 the year before. My Problem is why isn't Ireland communicating exactly what you said? Tell him privately to get in there , show some motivation, give me 10 sacks and I will make it happen. But he appears to be acting exactly the way other players from around the league have said is the problem in Miami. He is living up to his reputation in every way.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 11, 2012 09:15AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan

> We have had a PR nightmare here this off season.
> Ross has come out and stated he wants the best
> Team and will Pay. The keep saying the right
> things, but do otherwise. This was a perfect
> example to send a message , you Play 110% ,
> actually More like 300% in Wakes case, and we will
> reward you. Why anyone would want to come here and
> be motivaited to out play the next guy is beyond
> me.

Tcpf...I've never said wake doesn't DESERVE more money. But to quote Clint Eastwood: "deserve's got nothin to do with it."

In case you guys haven't noticed we've benn a little busy the past month with free agency and the draft.

We have 6 months to work out an extension if we want to.

Frankly, it's beyond stupid to waste time the month leading up to the draft sweating an extension for a guy who is 3rd in line for one, whose contract number is team friendly this year.

God, what if we draft 3 pressure guys in two weeks? Wake becomes expendable and we'd have screwed our cap next year by rushing to do something we didn't need to even do.


>
> Truth, a contract is a contract. But you can also
> reward people who play far beyond any
> expectations. Finding a player like him outside
> the draft is a HUGE find. You don't think his
> agent has approached them behind the scenes
> already? Do you think a hold out benifits wake or
> him? Belichick would have taken care of a player
> of his calibur, if not for his performance , just
> to secure his reputation in the NFL. Looks like
> Ireland will continue to not give a shit what
> anyone thinks and will help prove what others have
> been saying about him is true.

I have ZERO issues with how Ireland has handled this. He'd be an ass to NOT be laser focused on the draft the next few weeks. If we get to July and we haven't extended him or traded him then feel free to get your freak out on. Until then it's GROSSLY premature and comes off as just looking for another reason to complain about a guy you don't like.

*********************************


"The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."


- Winston Curchill

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: April 11, 2012 09:18AM

I don't see much "fan furor." there is the usual anti-player stuff which goes on whenever a player tries to make more money than fans feel guys should be making for playing a game (which, since we are all jealous and would love to be in the nfl instead of stuck at our lame jobs, is basically any more $$ than we are making currently). but I don't see anything ripping wake particularly. I also think Wake is just trying to make a point and won't hold out when things are no longer "voluntary."

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 11, 2012 09:27AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Keeping him at $650,000 will ensure another single
> digit year.

C'mon. Are you seriously going to suggest that wake would give less effort if he has to play out his contract as is?

First off, that is completely contrary to the type of character wake has displayed the past 3 years. And secondly, he'd be cutting his own financial throat going into free agency.

It's nice rhetoric on your part TCPF but is complete BS.

> And I know alot of Teams that would
> love to have a 8.5 sack DE, Let alone someone who
> managed 14 the year before. My Problem is why
> isn't Ireland communicating exactly what you said?
> Tell him privately to get in there , show some
> motivation, give me 10 sacks and I will make it
> happen.

How the hell do you know he hasn't done just that?!?!?!?


> But he appears to be acting exactly the
> way other players from around the league have said
> is the problem in Miami. He is living up to his
> reputation in every way.

Amazing how you assume the worst possible crap with Ireland.

How do you know Ireland hasn't communicated with wakes agent that this will have to wait until after the draft? Fact is...you don't know. You choose to assume the most illogical course of action and assign it to Ireland because of your bias against him. That doesn't make you right. In fact based on the reaction of some fans to the manning/Flynn free agency's and what came out after, you guys are most likely dead wrong in your assumptions of how this is being handled on our end.

*********************************


"The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."


- Winston Curchill



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/11/2012 09:36AM by THE Truth.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 11, 2012 09:33AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't see much "fan furor." there is the usual
> anti-player stuff which goes on whenever a player
> tries to make more money than fans feel guys
> should be making for playing a game (which, since
> we are all jealous and would love to be in the nfl
> instead of stuck at our lame jobs, is basically
> any more $$ than we are making currently). but I
> don't see anything ripping wake particularly. I
> also think Wake is just trying to make a point and
> won't hold out when things are no longer
> "voluntary."

I think you are right about that last part berk.

The CBA requires them to attend a certain % of voluntary workouts.

I think wake will meet the minimum so it's not considered a hold out and I have zero issues with him doing that. It's his only leverage.

He's just getting bad advice if he's going to make this a public negotiation or if he actually does hold out later on.

*********************************


"The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."


- Winston Curchill

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Date: April 11, 2012 09:33AM

Quote:
How the hell do you know he hasn't done just that?!?!?!?


Becuase he is skipping workouts! DUH. You yourself just stated thats not in his character. Which is it? You don't think players talk? They have cell phones ya know. Hey Wake where are you? We need you. Oh. He's doing you like he did Bell.....Our Captain.

Does not take a Rocket scientist to figure out Irelend has a Problem communicating with People/players. Your going to deny That ? You need to change your name from the Truth to The Clueless.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: April 11, 2012 09:38AM

I actually think the players would support Wake holding out, at least as long as it doesn't stretch too close to the regular season. I recall Channning Crowder saying on the radio awhile back that a few of the guys were telling Wake last year that he should do it, but Wake didn't want to.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Date: April 11, 2012 09:45AM

I know they would. If Ross is serious about building a winning Team , he Needs to Put his money where his mouth is and take a player like Wake and reward him. It can only help the Team from a dozen different perspectives. If a Player like Wake Holds out its just further demonstrating that Miami is NOT a place to be.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 11, 2012 09:46AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How the hell do you know he hasn't done just
> that?!?!?!?
>
>
> Becuase he is skipping workouts! DUH. You yourself
> just stated thats not in his character. Which is
> it? You don't think players talk? They have cell
> phones ya know. Hey Wake where are you? We need
> you. Oh. He's doing you like he did Bell.....Our
> Captain.
>
> Does not take a Rocket scientist to figure out
> Irelend has a Problem communicating with
> People/players. Your going to deny That ? You need
> to change your name from the Truth to The
> Clueless.

Dude.

yes because it's absurd to think that a gm who doesn't need cap relief would tell a player any discussion of an extension would have to wait until after the draft and it's lunanacy to think a player might not be happy with that and skip a few voluntary workouts. eye rolling smiley

You need to start paying better attention. Ireland did the SAME thing with JT when he went to the jets. He refused to address it until AFTER the draft because it gives him more flexibility.

Here's why. If we sign wake to a big contract today, give him $15 mill up front...and then draft say....couples and vinny curry

*********************************


"The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."


- Winston Curchill

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 11, 2012 09:50AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How the hell do you know he hasn't done just
> that?!?!?!?
>
>
> Becuase he is skipping workouts! DUH. You yourself
> just stated thats not in his character. Which is
> it? You don't think players talk? They have cell
> phones ya know. Hey Wake where are you? We need
> you. Oh. He's doing you like he did Bell.....Our
> Captain.
>
> Does not take a Rocket scientist to figure out
> Irelend has a Problem communicating with
> People/players. Your going to deny That ? You need
> to change your name from the Truth to The
> Clueless.

Dude.

yes because it's absurd to think that a gm who doesn't need cap relief would tell a player any discussion of an extension would have to wait until after the draft and it's lunanacy to think a player might not be happy with that and skip a few voluntary workouts. eye rolling smiley

You need to start paying better attention. Ireland did the SAME thing with JT when he went to the jets. He refused to address it until AFTER the draft because it gives him more flexibility.

Here's why. If we sign wake to a big contract today, give him $15 mill up front...and then draft say....couples and vinny curry and another pass rusher later because they were the best players available then we'd probably trade wake. Because we were too stupid to wait to see how the draft worked out we now have to eat $15mill in dead cap space next year.

He's skipped a workout. It's not a big deal.

It's SMART to wait on the extensions for all players until after the draft.

*********************************


"The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."


- Winston Curchill

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Date: April 11, 2012 09:53AM

Yeah, That treatment of JT worked wonders for the PR didn't it? We are at an All Time PR LOW here. You would think he would do the right thing. And we are in need of Cap space .....IF WE COULD ATTRACT ANY FRIGGING FREE AGENTS!!

And if its the draft , then get with him. Tell him to chill until after the draft. We don't want to give out hand away. Give him a handshake deal.

But Irelend doesn't work that way. He's a dickbag. When JT has a problem with you......you got issues.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 11, 2012 09:53AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I actually think the players would support Wake
> holding out, at least as long as it doesn't
> stretch too close to the regular season. I recall
> Channning Crowder saying on the radio awhile back
> that a few of the guys were telling Wake last year
> that he should do it, but Wake didn't want to.


I seem to remember the new CBA making it VERY expensive and far less likely for players to hold out. Could be that was just dealing with draftees but I think it covered everyone as well.

*********************************


"The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."


- Winston Curchill

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 11, 2012 09:55AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, That treatment of JT worked wonders for the
> PR didn't it? We are at an All Time PR LOW here.
> You would think he would do the right thing. And
> we are in need of Cap space .....IF WE COULD
> ATTRACT ANY FRIGGING FREE AGENTS!!
>
> And if its the draft , then get with him. Tell him
> to chill until after the draft. We don't want to
> give out hand away. Give him a handshake deal.
>
> But Irelend doesn't work that way. He's a dickbag.
> When JT has a problem with you......you got
> issues.

Thanks for proving my point.

*********************************


"The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."


- Winston Curchill

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: April 11, 2012 10:00AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, That treatment of JT worked wonders for the
> PR didn't it? We are at an All Time PR LOW here.
> You would think he would do the right thing. And
> we are in need of Cap space .....IF WE COULD
> ATTRACT ANY FRIGGING FREE AGENTS!!
>
> And if its the draft , then get with him. Tell him
> to chill until after the draft. We don't want to
> give out hand away. Give him a handshake deal.
>
> But Irelend doesn't work that way. He's a dickbag.
> When JT has a problem with you......you got
> issues.


This is the "fan furor" I speak of berk

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: April 11, 2012 10:11AM

yeah dolphinaholic but that furor is anti-Ireland, not anti-Wake.

I agree with most of what's been said on both sides. I don't think it is feasible right now to work out a deal with Wake before the draft. But I also agree that Ireland needs to make Wake feel appreciated---if that means assuring him they will take care of him after the draft, then do that. Now I know some may ask "how do we know that hasn't been done already," and maybe it has, but that would not be in keeping with Ireland's past M.O. around here.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: 808phan ()
Date: April 11, 2012 10:23AM

Yep that's just what the team needs. A player to hold out and then be gassed in the 2nd half of a game when he does decide to show up. Maybe the lockout last year spoiled some work ethic here.

But since it was voluntary OTA's then perhaps he felt he's not getting paid enough to voluntarily show up, and that's his choice. I can't bash the guy for that. After all, the dude played his way to the Pro Bowl in 2011 and is getting paid chump change by NFL standards.

That being said, four FA linebackers showed up to workout with the team. And then there's this - does the team have the cap space to pay him what he wants/deserves? I'd really be disappointed if the team could pay him but won't, because I'd hate to see him leave the Dolphins.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Date: April 11, 2012 10:25AM

Quote:
berkeley223 Wrote:
> Now I know some may ask "how do we know that
> hasn't been done already," and maybe it has, but
> that would not be in keeping with Ireland's past
> M.O. around here.

Exactly. AND Wake is not the kind of player to miss workouts without a reason.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 11, 2012 10:40AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah dolphinaholic but that furor is anti-Ireland,
> not anti-Wake.
>
> I agree with most of what's been said on both
> sides. I don't think it is feasible right now to
> work out a deal with Wake before the draft. But I
> also agree that Ireland needs to make Wake feel
> appreciated---if that means assuring him they will
> take care of him after the draft, then do that.
> Now I know some may ask "how do we know that
> hasn't been done already," and maybe it has, but
> that would not be in keeping with Ireland's past
> M.O. around here.

Why would he make a promise like that? Why not just do the deal now if you have to promise you'll take care of him after the draft? What happens if circumstances change because of the draft? Wouldn't Ireland be everything TCPF thinks he is if he had to break that completely unnecessary promise?

This is a business. A good GM keeps his options open and maintains payroll flexibility as much as possible ...and he doesn't make promises he might not be able to keep. All of which is very much in Ireland's MO.

Heck, just look at the bell release and how awkward that was because of a foolish promise. Why make the same mistake when you don't have to just to mollify a few fans in whose eyes you can do no right?

*********************************


"The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."


- Winston Curchill

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: April 11, 2012 11:07AM

The "fan furor" I was talking about was anti Ireland/front office, not aimed at Wake. One guy goes off on an unwarranted rant and it's like sharks circling in the water.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: tsstamper ()
Date: April 11, 2012 11:28AM

Wake was one of the highest rated players at his position in spite of 8.5 sacks. Hits, pressures, hurries, offensive holding penalties, playing against the run, whatever...however they count them all he was rated highly. And my recollection is that it showed on the field.

It has been reported that he and his agent have been looking for a new deal for about 2 years. Don't misinterpret this as my wanting them to write a new deal one year after inking the first, but this has not snuck up on Ireland. NE did a new deal for Mayo in December of 2011 before his expired and a deal for Wilfork in March of 2010 during draft prep time. I've read that the team is looking at extensions for Long and Hartline, so it's not like they've said "nothing till after the draft across the board".

Quote:
I have ZERO issues with how Ireland has handled this.

None of us knows how he has handled it to date. However, Ireland has a pretty widely-held reputation for not doing too well on the "how" side of things. I'm one who believes that how you do something is incredibly important and that there is a marked difference in long-term success between someone who just gets results and someone who manages to get results and does it while being a good person to work with.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Date: April 11, 2012 11:35AM

Yes. And they just signed Merling and Murtha to Free Agent deals. Murtha!? Really? And you leave a player like Wake twisting in the wind?

[www.miamidolphins.com]

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: April 11, 2012 11:45AM

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. And they just signed Merling and Murtha to
> Free Agent deals. Murtha!? Really? And you leave
> a player like Wake twisting in the wind?
>
> [www.miamidolphins.com]
> ns-Sign-Merling-And-Murtha-Host-Four-Free-Agents/f
> d937c85-01e8-44a4-ac5d-f7bb7cd949a3


Wow man.

And someone said wake is 30?

30 is not that old...I know he is getting up there in age but he can play at a high level for 4 or 5 more years.

These are trained athletes. These are not regular people.

A 30 year old NFL players body is different from a regular everyday 30 year old person body.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: dolphaholic ()
Date: April 11, 2012 12:39PM

I get a kick out of how most on this board think this kind of thing is exclusive to Ireland/Miami, look around the NFL, Forte is flopping in the windy city (he's way more valuable to the Bears then Wake to Miami), the Texans let their top player walk in FA (Mario) without getting anything for him AND cut one of there best O-lineman this offseason, AJ Smith is the most hated man in the NFL and somehow players keep going there to play, Bellicheck is the biggest prick since John Holmes and he keeps getting FA's as well, Indy just cut an icon and a handful of other fan favorites......the list could go on and on and on. When Miami starts winning all of this garbage will stop.

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Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: April 11, 2012 12:53PM

yeah but those teams are GOOD!

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 11, 2012 01:21PM

dolphaholic Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I get a kick out of how most on this board think
> this kind of thing is exclusive to Ireland/Miami,
> look around the NFL, Forte is flopping in the
> windy city (he's way more valuable to the Bears
> then Wake to Miami), the Texans let their top
> player walk in FA (Mario) without getting anything
> for him AND cut one of there best O-lineman this
> offseason, AJ Smith is the most hated man in the
> NFL and somehow players keep going there to play,
> Bellicheck is the biggest prick since John Holmes
> and he keeps getting FA's as well, Indy just cut
> an icon and a handful of other fan
> favorites......the list could go on and on and on.
> When Miami starts winning all of this garbage will
> stop.


EXCELLENT post. Spot on.

*********************************


"The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."


- Winston Curchill

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: THE Truth ()
Date: April 11, 2012 01:25PM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> yeah but those teams are GOOD!


Yes berk, they are. And what do they have that we don't? What do they have that parcells couldn't deliver?

I'll give you a hint. It's NOT a better, or more likeable GM...winking smiley

*********************************


"The Truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is."


- Winston Curchill

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: This is where Irelend and the Dolphins Piss me off......
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: April 11, 2012 01:32PM

Ireland has yet to deliver it either. But of course the Qb is the thing.

________________________________________________________
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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