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          At the Risk of Later being called a
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 22, 2008 12:20PM

Monday morning quarterback or making observations in hindsight (eesti?), I want to get this out right now.

Most people see the question of who wins the division as being simple, 1) if we WIN, it's us or, 2)if we lose and the Pats win, it's the Pats, or3) if we lose and the Pats lose, it's the Jets.

However, provided the scoreboard shows that the Pats have lost and we are in overtime, we should remember that WE WIN THE DIVISION IN CASE OF A TIE with the Jets.

I only bring up this one-in-a-million remote possibility because I can see our simple-minded staff being in a tie near the end of the overtime quarter and doing something risky for the win (for example, passing when we are inside the Jets 20 yard line and risking an interception) that results in a turnover and a loss by a Jets field goal.

Our staff makes the worse decision because they don't think strategy. If the Pats have lost and we are in overtime, we have the luxury of playing for a tie. We should not forget that and we should not doing anything to gamble away a sure tie.

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 22, 2008 12:38PM


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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 22, 2008 12:45PM

Ghotirule,

Weren't you one of the "non-simple-minded" persons that kept saying that that field goal risking pitchback five yards was not a bad running play to call against the Niners ahead by only 5 points and with 2:45 left in the game and to say otherwise was just Monday morning qbing? I could have sworn you were.

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: December 22, 2008 12:58PM

let's play for the win!!
this scenario ain't happening anyway...

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 22, 2008 12:58PM

It wasn't a bad call at all. That play had worked all day, but the guard missed his block. It was a loss of three, hardly out of FG range.

Really, do you know what you are talking about? Most handoffs occur 5 yards behind scrimmage, the pitch is a yard or two farther. So, if the guard doesn't make the block, which he didn't, then you risk 3-5 yard loss anyway.

But if you just want to bitch about meaningless things, then you have something to talk a about.

drinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smiley

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 22, 2008 01:01PM


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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: December 22, 2008 02:14PM

Let's get real. The Pats will NOT lose to the Bills. It's sad, but true.

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 22, 2008 02:22PM


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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 22, 2008 02:23PM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> let's play for the win!!
> this scenario ain't happening anyway...


RESPONSE: Well, if it don't happen, we got nothing to talk about. If it does, we do and we'll see what they do.

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 22, 2008 02:25PM

If we don't beat the Bills, we don't deserve to win the division.

Ties are for pansies. Bollo ties are OK, but the rest are for pansies.

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 22, 2008 02:27PM

ghotirule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It wasn't a bad call at all. That play had worked
> all day, but the guard missed his block. It was a
> loss of three, hardly out of FG range.
>
> Really, do you know what you are talking about?
> Most handoffs occur 5 yards behind scrimmage, the
> pitch is a yard or two farther. So, if the guard
> doesn't make the block, which he didn't, then you
> risk 3-5 yard loss anyway.
>
> But if you just want to bitch about meaningless
> things, then you have something to talk a about.
>
> drinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileysmiling smiley
> odrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smileydrinking smiley

RESPONSE: You still don't get the point that you don't risk yardage on a must get field goal situation. It's called "strategy."

Yep, most modern plays call for the quarterback to run the ball back so many yards and hand off but there are still some plays in the play book wherein he stands behind center and hands off to the back as the back runs forward. There was no reason for either the pitch back or the type of play you describe.

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 22, 2008 02:44PM


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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 22, 2008 02:47PM

ghotirule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But if you just want to bitch about meaningless
> things, then you have something to talk a about.
>

RESPONSE: It'll be meaningless until they make the very mistake I'm talking about.

Berkeley might be right that it will never happen, but it just might.

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 22, 2008 02:49PM

A meteor may fall from the sky and land on Rich stadium destroying both the Cheatriots and Bills. It cold happen...

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: December 22, 2008 06:04PM

ChyrenB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I only bring up this one-in-a-million remote
> possibility because I can see our simple-minded
> staff being in a tie near the end of the overtime
> quarter and doing something risky for the win (for
> example, passing when we are inside the Jets 20
> yard line and risking an interception) that
> results in a turnover and a loss by a Jets field
> goal. Our staff makes the worse decision because they
> don't think strategy. If the Pats have lost and
> we are in overtime, we have the luxury of playing
> for a tie. We should not forget that and we
> should not doing anything to gamble away a sure
> tie.
>Errr... you are making yourself look more foolish by the minute.
>As for my age, I got my graduate degree in 1970 and my Doctorate in >1973, so you have again made a false assumption.


Simple minded staff? How dare you insult this staff after what they have achieved this season! and you call yourself a fan?

Regarding your last post that addressed me...I was speaking metaphorically when I referred to your level of intelligence but I guess they didn't teach that where you got your "Doctorate".

What kind of a person has to go on a fan based chat board to try and convince people how smart they are by displaying their credentials or resume?

and I am making myself look foolish?????

You come on phins.com in the middle of the best season in recent memory and disrespect the coach by calling him simple minded? and then act as if you know more about coaching and strategy than a future Hall of Fame coach/GM and his proteges?

“Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential...”
-William Thomas

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: JC ()
Date: December 23, 2008 05:42AM

ghotirule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bollo ties are OK,

Now, go to Little Havana and say that grinning smiley

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 23, 2008 09:49AM


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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: December 23, 2008 11:12AM

Chyren wrote: RESPONSE: And that describes you perfectly.

Good comeback, Doc. That was the equivalent of "Oh yeah, you are!"

It is one thing to criticize the coaching, as we all do on occasion but to call the staff simple minded is simply...simple minded.

But congratulations on getting here (phins.com) before me and for being old. That's quite an accomplishment. I can almost picture you sitting in your lazy-boy with a bag of corn puffs and orange fingers, wearing a leather helmet and resting a beer on your partially exposed beer gut while you yell at the TV while watching a re-run of the 81 Miami/Dan Diego playoff game.

Cheers!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: December 23, 2008 11:17AM


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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: Leon In Denver ()
Date: December 23, 2008 11:29AM

You kids stop arguing and get to bed.moody smiley

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: December 23, 2008 11:41AM

Geez...I never get to have any fun!

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 23, 2008 02:04PM

Hmmmmm! All of a sudden I go from a kid who has yet to experience life to an ole geezer.

I guess it does not matter to you which side of the "chronologically challenged" accusation you make.

Hold stil and take one position, would you?

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: December 23, 2008 03:23PM

nah...I'm about done smiling smiley

.....................................................................................
“I'm here" You're welcome!" - Kenny Powers

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 23, 2008 03:30PM

Before you go.....Do the board a favor and again explain to us the merits of your original position about why it made sense to pitchback the ball five yards against the niners when we were leading by only 5 points with 2:45 left in the game and were at the bare edge of his field goal accuracy.

Let's return this to being about football.

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: December 23, 2008 06:41PM

Give it a rest guys.

Can we concentrate on just talking $h!t about the jets.

The topic of this week is.........

"TALKING $H!T ABOUT THE $H!TS"


BTW........I hope the pats win next week. That way the jets will have nothing to play for.

I don't mind any of the teams in our division making the playoffs, except the stinking jets.hot smiley

GO PHINS.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/23/2008 06:43PM by samsam3738.

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: eesti ()
Date: December 23, 2008 07:03PM


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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: PHINSKISS13 ()
Date: December 23, 2008 08:05PM

Agreed....play nice everyone.....we should just be pissing against anything having to do with the jets.

It all just comes down to one game now!

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 24, 2008 09:33AM

eesti Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I already explained my position in the other post
> but here goes... Running outside was working. Up
> the middle was not.
>
> Even in a typical running play in a standard
> formation to run up the middle, the QB is 4 to 5
> yards deep where the exchange is made. If the
> play is not executed and blocks are not made, this
> goes down as a tackle for loss.
>
> The pitch is designed to get the ball outside
> quicker and give the RB more room to see where the
> lanes are. The ball is not pitched straight back
> but back AND also outside so even if you are
> losing 4 yards on the back pitch, you are also
> gaining 4 yards on the out-pitch.
>
> The outside run was working better (about 6.6 ypc
> compared to 2 ypc inside) than the inside and the
> pitch had worked several times before so that is
> the call they went with. The play was not
> executed and it did not work...just as running up
> the middle did not work all day long...for more
> than a few yards and only a few plays actually
> even gained that much.
>
> The philosophy is to execute and gain yards, not
> to "not lose" yards. We needed 4 yards for a
> first down and running up the middle had only
> gained 4 yards or more exactly ONE time all day
> long.
>
> Sparano made a judgement call to gain the first
> down and run out the clock as opposed to gaining 1
> or two yards and taking a chance on a field goal
> from 46 or 47 yards and missing and giving the
> ball to SF with 2:41 left at the 45 yard line.
> Obviously it did not work. SF had been marching
> up the field all day.

RESPONSE: Again, and briefly, 1) the point is not what the best play to run THAT DAY, but the best play to run in that situation with us needing at least an indispensable field goal and us being at the edge of that makeable territory.

2) not all running plays are executed with the QB running straight back and handing the ball off to the RB four yards deep. Fullback runs are executed with the FB coming forward and plunging into the line. Even if it got stuffed for no yardage, we still would have had the five yards by which the field goal was missed.


>
> This does not make the staff simple minded.

RESPONSE: First of all, I never said the WHOLE STAFF, I said whoever is calling the plays.

Secondly, when on the next week, you follow that up with a fade pass to the endzone on 4th and 1 at the five yards wherein EVEN MAKING ONLY ONE YARD gives you four new downs to run down the clock and a first down from inside the 5 yard lines..................................................................................................WE BEGIN TO WONDER ABOUT WHETHER SIMPLE-MINDEDNESS IS AT WORK.

All that's left to prove it is if we LOSE the Jet game in overtime after the Pats have lost by trying to win the game instead of settling for a tie (which would give us the Championship of the AFC East).

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 24, 2008 09:37AM

ghotirule Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If we don't beat the Bills, we don't deserve to
> win the division.
>
> Ties are for pansies.

RESPONSE: Well, if you mean ties are sissies then you have a right to your opinion.

But if you mean ties for "losers," then how does taking a tie and WINNING THE AFC CHAMPIONSHIP by virtue of a better record make you a "loser?" I would think that, INSTEAD, by going for a win and turning down a tie and failing to make that win and LOSING the division, that would make you a LOSER.

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Re: At the Risk of Later being called a
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: December 24, 2008 09:40AM

PHINSKISS13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agreed....play nice everyone.....we should just be
> pissing against anything having to do with the
> jets.
>
> It all just comes down to one game now!

RESPONSE: This is just what I started this thread about....the Jets...eesti hijacked it to discuss last weeks game.

Back to the subject, why I started this thread was to say that we can afford to tie the Jest and still win the division if the Pats have lost.

Therefore, if we are sitting on a tie (or are within field goal range of making a tie) near the end of overtime, let's not do any to risk the tie.

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