jlyell13 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like this has been in the works, His BS at
> the pro bowl likely the last straw, new regime
> wants nothing to do with him
>
> You know that he came up yesterday, and Phins
> already had plan of action. Have to give them
> kudos for showing some guts although the Rams
> might have given us a second, but maybe not with
> his baggage


They've been shopping him since the combine. I'm sure two 3rds is the best they could have got. And no way a team with a young QB would want Marshall.

This frees up $6M in cap space this year, and $6M next year when Marshall's dead money comes off the books.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chris,
>
> Laurent Robinson had 11 Td's last year. How many
> did Marshall have?

Agree, he came on strong at the end of last year with all the injuries Dallas had to their receiving corps, but he has been injury prone almost his entire career and has been let go by three previous NFL franchises for under performance. The only games Dallas won at the end of last season was against, Seattle, Buffalo, Washington, Miami, and Tampa Bay. We probably had the strongest defense of all of them and we lost in the last seconds if I remember correctly.

I'll hold judgement on this one, but it ain't looking good, especially after some of the other rejects we've gotten from Dallas. I guess if you pan a sh&t hole long enough you'll come up with at least some gold dust and that looks like what we're doing here.

Chris,

Wes Welker was let go by teams too.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

I wouldn't call catching 6 TD passes and dropping 7 of them being elite by any real means. Then he flaps his jaw blaming his butterfingers on the QB when they were thrown right to him and then dropped. What an ass. Now if he caught all 13 of them it's a different story, then I'd say this team is nuts for trading him.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chris,
>
> Wes Welker was let go by teams too.

So was Brandon Marshall, they both have something in common now. The Miami Dolphins.

No offense A&O, but if we do happen to draft him then I will trust Mike Sherman's judgement over yours. Of course, if we don't draft him then perhaps Sherman agrees with you.

Panteraize Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a terrible move because he's worth more to
> us than 2 measly 3rd round picks. It isn't about
> market value or what other receivers went for.
> It's about whats more valuable to our team, what
> makes us a better team, Brandon Marshall or a 3rd
> round pick this year and one next year. What helps
> us win more? Brandon Marshall or a couple 3rd
> round picks. The answer is Brandon Marshall.
>
> It's not even a question that we took a HUGE loss
> with this trade, that this move hurt the team. I
> mean that's clear as day. That much is obvious.
> And the reason that's the case is because this
> wasn't a strategic trade between two teams with
> differing needs, wherein a move was made and a
> deal reached that benefitted both teams.
>
>
> And here's the key, here's why we got screwed...
> or more accurately why we screwed ourselves on
> this, and did so knowingly
>
>
> This was your standard ship a superstar off for
> peanuts after the team that has his rights has a
> falling out with the player and grows sour on him
> because of some unacceptable off-the-field
> disaster that happened or locker room cancer
> perception that exists. Thats the kind of rash
> break-neck firesale that happens in those
> instances and thats exactly what we just
> witnessed.
>
> Santonio Holmes was a perfect example of this;
> extremely talented, elite Superbowl MVP Wide
> Receiver in the prime of his career, dumped at a
> bus stop in New Jersey for a 5th round draft pick
> after his team grew disgusted with his on and off
> the field antics, of which we probably only knew
> the half. The only difference there was that
> Pittsburgh actually had a legitimate, young
> vertical threat talent at WR up its sleeve and
> parting ways with a huge talent like Holmes was
> survivable because of what they were lucky enough
> to have already had right behind him.
>
> Our situation.....well we have Julius Pruitt. So
> there. The reason the "cut the strings on your
> elite playmaker for peanuts" move screws us really
> badly in a way Pittsburgh was able to avoid is
> simply because we don't have any elite talent
> sitting behind Marshall that was being held back
> and will now be able to spread their wings now
> that the problem child is gone. No, instead what
> we have is a pathetic talent vacuum at WR with a
> hole that Marshall left thats enormous. No back
> up, no contingency plan, no elite replacement, no
> budding star to step up, no anything. The only
> thing we have is a bottom 3 WR corps. This is why
> the move was insane and severely damaging to our
> team. I wouldn't be saying this if we went and
> signed Vincent Jackson immediately after doing
> this or some such move. But we didn't do that.
>
> So yeah, we can all take solace in the prospect of
> turning the two 3rd round picks we received in
> exchange for our elite, physically dominant,
> playmaking WR into a project right guard and a
> d-tackle for the defensive line rotation,
> respecively. Superbowl here we come.

I couldn't agree with you more on this...We have to shore this hole up with the draft now... IF we can or we're toast. Signing another elite WR in FA will not only break the bank, we won't be able to sign Manning or Flynn. If we're stuck with Moore, who's he going to throw to?

No doubt this has been in the works, but the timing--a day after the meeting with Manning--is telling. Most likely they could have made this deal with Chicago or a similar one earlier, but were holding out for more. Then just maybe Manning made it clear in so many words that getting rid of Marshall would improve their chances, and they pulled the trigger.

Panteraize Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a terrible move because he's worth more to
> us than 2 measly 3rd round picks. It isn't about
> market value or what other receivers went for.
> It's about whats more valuable to our team, what
> makes us a better team, Brandon Marshall or a 3rd
> round pick this year and one next year. What helps
> us win more? Brandon Marshall or a couple 3rd
> round picks. The answer is Brandon Marshall.
>

What teams has Brandon Marshall helped win? None in the NFL yet.

Do you know how they will spend the $6M it frees up this year? And the $19M it frees up over 2013-2014? What if that money lands us a quality RT this year? And it allows us to re-sign Cam Wake and Jake Long in the future?

And what about getting his negative attitude out of the locker room? Remember how Ricky Williams said that Marshall was difficult to like? How about the value of having all of the offensive players working towards team goals instead of having one guy who is only interested in his personal stats? How about not having a diva WR who is a distraction from doing the things you want to do on offense? How much are those things worth?

You do not win with players like Brandon Marshall. Plain and simple.

Jonathan Twilley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No offense A&O, but if we do happen to draft him
> then I will trust Mike Sherman's judgement over
> yours. Of course, if we don't draft him then
> perhaps Sherman agrees with you.



&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Well it's not just my opinion. Most real scoutin pundits believe its gonna be very hard for a QB who was a WR a year and a half ago to play at an elite level in this league.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

As a starter, Brandon Marshall has never been on a winning team.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

slipstream Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No doubt this has been in the works, but the
> timing--a day after the meeting with Manning--is
> telling. Most likely they could have made this
> deal with Chicago or a similar one earlier, but
> were holding out for more. Then just maybe Manning
> made it clear in so many words that getting rid of
> Marshall would improve their chances, and they
> pulled the trigger.


we traded him the minute we could. trades were not allowed until 4pm today.

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a starter, Brandon Marshall has never been on a
> winning team.

No he wasn't, and I agree he was probably a problem for the locker room in some aspects. But, he was the Pro-Bowl MVP and as a fan, the Dolphins should have a plan to at least give us something in return for giving a Pro-Bowl MVP away for basically nothing.

Like I said before, a third situation receiver from Dallas who just happened to have a "good end to last season" (first time in his career) against poor competition, ain't gonna cut it.

chrisnnavarre Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As a starter, Brandon Marshall has never been on
> a
> > winning team.
>
> No he wasn't, and I agree he was probably a
> problem for the locker room in some aspects. But,
> he was the Pro-Bowl MVP and as a fan, the Dolphins
> should have a plan to at least give us something
> in return for giving a Pro-Bowl MVP away for
> basically nothing.
>

You do realize that they don't allow press coverage or blitzing in the Pro Bowl right? It's nothing like an actual NFL game, and is totally meaningless.

You just said it yourself. "He was probably a problem in the locker room." Gee, do ya think? That's all you need to know. Locker room problem? Then get out! Has Brandon Marshall been good for the QBs here? How he used to go behind Henne's back to Pennington? How he stopped talking to Henne? How he got into arguments with David Lee and Dan Henning? How he threw Matt Moore under the bus? Do you think a new coach wants a guy like this around a QB just trying to get his feet under him?

slipstream Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No doubt this has been in the works, but the
> timing--a day after the meeting with Manning--is
> telling. Most likely they could have made this
> deal with Chicago or a similar one earlier, but
> were holding out for more. Then just maybe Manning
> made it clear in so many words that getting rid of
> Marshall would improve their chances, and they
> pulled the trigger.

Maybe Manning is going around to all the teams that could stand in his way of a future Super Bowl run, and telling them who they need to get rid of to improve HIS chances....ever think about that???

Considering our FO track record we'd be just stupid enough to fall for it. Espeically considering the Marshall trade today.

I am trying to come up with good explanations for this trade, but I can't see how this was not a poor move by the Phins.

The single biggest upside to the possibility of Peyton coming to Miami is to get talented guys like Marshall to step up to the next level in production and team play.

The value in Manning is not in having him make 50 yard throws, but to provide leadership and inspiration to the scrubs and to get loudmouth underperformers like BM get their shit together. However, leadership will only get you so far without raw talent.

The Bears are feeling like they have just won the offseason...

They want fast recievers not YAC. Marshall had other issues like a suicide attempt just last year. Peyton is interested in getting rid of the ball quickly so he doesn't get hit, need faster players, plain and simple.

Offerdahl Wrote:

>
> The Bears are feeling like they have just won the
> offseason...

Given Marshall's history of losing, which dates back to high school, that will be the only thing the Bears win this year. And when Marshall gets arrested again, which he will, and gets suspended for a year, the Bears will be really happy.

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chrisnnavarre Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aqua&Orange Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > As a starter, Brandon Marshall has never been
> on
> > a
> > > winning team.
> >
> > No he wasn't, and I agree he was probably a
> > problem for the locker room in some aspects.
> But,
> > he was the Pro-Bowl MVP and as a fan, the
> Dolphins
> > should have a plan to at least give us
> something
> > in return for giving a Pro-Bowl MVP away for
> > basically nothing.
> >
>
> You do realize that they don't allow press
> coverage or blitzing in the Pro Bowl right? It's
> nothing like an actual NFL game, and is totally
> meaningless.
>
> You just said it yourself. "He was probably a
> problem in the locker room." Gee, do ya think?
> That's all you need to know. Locker room problem?
> Then get out! Has Brandon Marshall been good for
> the QBs here? How he used to go behind Henne's
> back to Pennington? How he stopped talking to
> Henne? How he got into arguments with David Lee
> and Dan Henning? How he threw Matt Moore under the
> bus? Do you think a new coach wants a guy like
> this around a QB just trying to get his feet under
> him?


I agree with most of that...I just want the Dolphins to give me as a fan a replacement WR of a similar physical and capable caliber. Got any ideas? I don't.... and signing Manning or Flynn ain't gonna change that. Unless one of them is better than Tom Terrific, and even he can't throw the &*^% ball and catch the *((&^ ball at the same time.

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> slipstream Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No doubt this has been in the works, but the
> > timing--a day after the meeting with
> Manning--is
> > telling. Most likely they could have made this
> > deal with Chicago or a similar one earlier, but
> > were holding out for more. Then just maybe
> Manning
> > made it clear in so many words that getting rid
> of
> > Marshall would improve their chances, and they
> > pulled the trigger.
>
>
> we traded him the minute we could. trades were not
> allowed until 4pm today.

oops, well nevermind then

Offerdahl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am trying to come up with good explanations for
> this trade, but I can't see how this was not a
> poor move by the Phins.
>
> The single biggest upside to the possibility of
> Peyton coming to Miami is to get talented guys
> like Marshall to step up to the next level in
> production and team play.
>
> The value in Manning is not in having him make 50
> yard throws, but to provide leadership and
> inspiration to the scrubs and to get loudmouth
> underperformers like BM get their shit together.
> However, leadership will only get you so far
> without raw talent.
>
> The Bears are feeling like they have just won the
> offseason...

Dude, the Bears DID just win the offseason. And without some sort of compensation for this (Manning or something) all the hope in Miami went out the window in a single trade.

If I were Ross, and I had 35 million dollars invested in a guy and the staff I hired to get locker room issues resolved and improve raw talent just indicated to me they didn't think they were up to the job...

They'd be shown the door.

The replacement and compensation for this has to be somethng the fans can relate to and have hope for or I'd be getting rid of my personnel folks.

chrisnnavarre Wrote:

>
> I agree with most of that...I just want the
> Dolphins to give me as a fan a replacement WR of a
> similar physical and capable caliber. Got any
> ideas? I don't.... and signing Manning or Flynn
> ain't gonna change that. Unless one of them is
> better than Tom Terrific, and even he can't throw
> the &*^% ball and catch the *((&^ ball at the same
> time.
>
>


The WCO doesn't call for bulky 6'4 WRs. You need fast, quick guys who can run quick crossing routes. Marshall is awful on crossing routes, because his first instinct is to stop and try to cut back.

For the last 4 years, we have often used pass plays with 2 or 3 guys in the patterns. We have kept extra guys into block much of the time. In the WCO, you protect with 5, and you dictate to the defense by sending 5 guys into the patterns. And you spread the ball to those 5 guys. It's going to look totally different than what we have seen here since Don Shula was pushed out. When you are sending out only 2 or 3 guys, it's to your advantage to have a big physical WR that you can throw to when he's covered. With so few receivers in the pattern, there is going to be coverage. With 5 guys in the pattern, size is much less important. You want guys who can separate quickly, and then run away from the defense which his stretched horizontally.

Does it dawn on anyone that the Broncos couldn't get rid of Marshall fast enough? So, two teams in 3 years have taken what they can get to get Marshall off their roster. What does that tell you?

dolfanmark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chrisnnavarre Wrote:
>
> >
> > I agree with most of that...I just want the
> > Dolphins to give me as a fan a replacement WR of
> a
> > similar physical and capable caliber. Got any
> > ideas? I don't.... and signing Manning or
> Flynn
> > ain't gonna change that. Unless one of them
> is
> > better than Tom Terrific, and even he can't
> throw
> > the &*^% ball and catch the *((&^ ball at the
> same
> > time.
> >
> >
>
>
> The WCO doesn't call for bulky 6'4 WRs. You need
> fast, quick guys who can run quick crossing
> routes. Marshall is awful on crossing routes,
> because his first instinct is to stop and try to
> cut back.
>
> For the last 4 years, we have often used pass
> plays with 2 or 3 guys in the patterns. We have
> kept extra guys into block much of the time. In
> the WCO, you protect with 5, and you dictate to
> the defense by sending 5 guys into the patterns.
> And you spread the ball to those 5 guys. It's
> going to look totally different than what we have
> seen here since Don Shula was pushed out. When you
> are sending out only 2 or 3 guys, it's to your
> advantage to have a big physical WR that you can
> throw to when he's covered. With so few receivers
> in the pattern, there is going to be coverage.
> With 5 guys in the pattern, size is much less
> important. You want guys who can separate quickly,
> and then run away from the defense which his
> stretched horizontally.

I totally accept that, now please drop some names of some fast and speedy WCO receivers we can sign to replace Brandon Marshall with (price range for both around 5.5 million this FA), or (at least we find one guaranteed in the third round this year) and dude I'm totally cool with this.

I mean it....totally cool with it.

Adam Schefter is reporting that Brandon Marshall may be getting suspended.

More to come on Sportscenter.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Adam Schefter is reporting that Brandon Marshall
> may be getting suspended.
>
> More to come on Sportscenter.

If that's true, then I'll eat crow and I'm totally cool with the trade. But other than that...

I'd of us rather traded him to Atlanta for Julio Jones and we GIVE them a second or third next year to boot. At least he's new to the league, good hands, fast and could possibly fit well into offense Philbin wants to implement.

What we got was two thirds and alot of ???????????

To me it is simple

Are you we better off without Marshall?

Right now the answer is no!

Plain and simple.

As of today it was a terrible move by an organization that continues to baffle.

&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
"You just went out this past weekend and purchased a Brandon Marshall jersey, didnt you!?

OH SH*T......that's funny! Youre probably right.