...hearing of ex-Phin coaches or players (who we CUT) who are successful on other teams. Dom Capers is the D.C. in Green Bay, and they're 4-0!! Cam Cameron has been a damn good O.C. in Baltimore. Buffalo is having a GREAT year...and Wanny is a coach on that team!!

But what's even worse are the players CUT BY THIS REGIME who are starting or playing well on winning teams. Eric Walden in Green Bay. Bobby Carpenter in Detroit. Jason Allen in Houston. Ricky Williams in Baltimore. Ugh!!

Thats why Ireland needs to get the axe too, not just Sparano.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

Great point, I agree. I am tired of seeing our cast-offs do betterwith their new teams, and sick of us taking other teams cast-offs and getting shafted.

When was the last time we had a coach that 'developed' players?

Really? I mean JJ developed JT, Zach, Gadsen? I guess in fairness Devone Bess is a good pick-up...but when have we seen guys get developed?

don't forget tedd ginn and even jason allen. the theme is players are good on other teans before we get them and bad when they play for us, or bad for us and good when they leave. also, we overpay for players (over draft them (ginn, allen, etc) or over promote coaches (wanny, camoron) who then success with other teams in the role they were in before they joined us (peter principle)

Watch Sparano end up being a successful O-line coach somewhere after he gets the boot from here. lol

Miami is seen by the players as a “soft” place to land, as opposed to the Shula days (when he was young, intense, and at the top of his game) when Miami was a really hard place to play – with intense practices and a 100% winning attitude and corresponding personal sacrifice on the players part. But with the rise of South Beach, and the demise of the Orange Bowl, the Dolphins – as a collective persona – got soft.

BTW: remember the days when Buffalo simply beat Miami up on the field?
Irony: after we beat that franchise into the ground for over a decade!

JJ tried to reinstall the prior Miami toughness with a new logo etc., but the karma had already taken its toll. And the franchise had truly become “a soft place to land.”

Bottom line, lacking a truly dominant personality at the top, like a Shula in his prime, South Florida is more about diversions and jet skiing than hard-core football. We’ve also seen the U deteriorate steadily from their glory years – even tho the HS talent pool is still the best in the nation. It takes a dominant personality, in his prime, like Schnellenberger and subsequently JJ, to force players to be great in a climate that’s not conducive to such a “blue collar” ethic.

808phan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Watch Sparano end up being a successful O-line
> coach somewhere after he gets the boot from here.
> lol


I hear Tony's Pizza in Hoboken is going to offer him a job.

Seriously that is a big Problem. There is a culture here that is not allowing players to play to their potential. That needs to end. Ross really needs to what the problem is. Does Miami have too many distractions? He needs to get players someone who will motivate them and keep them focused. Belichik was even able to harness Ranndy Moss and ride his back to a few world Championships.

Good thread and a Great point that needs to be addressed if we are ever going to take that next step. Especially if we are lucky enough to land Andrew Luck or any young QB next season.

TreasurecoastPhinsfan Wrote:
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> Belichik was even able to harness Ranndy Moss and
> ride his back to a few world Championships.
>
Actually, no he didn't. Moss never won a Superbowl with NE.

Really ? My bad then. I know Welker never got a ring , came close though.

That's a great point, particularly when you look at organizations like Pittsburgh and Green Bay. They've had the advantage of blue-collar towns for years...but it doesn't explain Detroit!!

On the other hand, if New Orleans can win a Superbowl and remain dominant, then we can too!!

What does it tell you if our castoffs( EX Coaches ) are doing really good somewhere else but stunk here?

I dont know what it tells you but it tells me that there is a big problem with the people UPSTAIRS....Owner president vice president and their mother.

Continuing what I wrote earlier…

Duh Tuna and the gang tried the same thing – revert Miami back to being a TOUGH mofo team – but that chemistry is like oil and water in the contemporary SFL atmosphere. Players make huge amounts of money, and simply put – Miami is far more noted for South Beach and its assorted party accruements than down and dirty football.

Point is; it’s going to take someone with a charismatic personality and high IQ (which neither Sparano nor Ireland have) to formulate a winning combination in Miami. It’s not by accident this team hasn’t had a legit persona in years. And going way back into the latter Shula years, the franchises cache eroded and has never been restored. JJ couldn’t do it – mainly because his fire was ebbing IMO, and Parcells couldn’t do it – because his “formula” is outdated and predicated on a different atmosphere.

Why do you think Saban hauled ass back to college? Yea, he’s a certified asshole, but there’s no doubt he’s a very bright coach and a titanic ego. But once he got here – he knew he couldn’t solve the Miami dilemma. This franchise has become a chronic problem for a reason…

Think about it – we bring players here and (most of the time) they play “soft.” Those same players leave and they suddenly learn how to play football again. One thing JJ was able to do is get some smart players with intense leadership on D; Zack and Jason, Madison, Surtain, etc. That core group policed themselves and created a persona. The problem was – Marino was falling apart and that sent us tumbling into the QB garbage bin – which we have not recovered from yet.

The D JJ built was good enough to carry the team for many years – and thus we avoided a total collapse – as it appears we’re heading towards yet again. IMO this collapse is the most troubling of all because we invested 4 years into project BIG and dumb and WTF do we have for it? Personally, I think many around here grossly overestimate the “talent” on this team. Simply put, real “talent” produces on the field, and most of our roster doesn’t rise to that standard.

Last, in a weird and ineffective way, I think Ross understands the funk this franchise has been in and attempted to foster a new image via the celeb path and glitz-it-up with a lot of mascara. Of course that was absolutely the opposite “direction” of duh Tuna, and Biggie T packed his vagabond suitcase the next day – leaving the franchise with an “abandoned child” syndrome. Of course this resulted in the inevitable “exposure” of Ireland and Sparano, two midget intellects with overcompensating Napoleon complexes.

Oh well…

BNF.

Keep Jake Long and maybe the long snapper...the rest are pretenders.

I've said before Jake's best days are already behind him. I hope he can hold together - but I'd like to see him on IR for the balance of the season and rehab the knee and shoulder and whatever else. Maybe then he'll be able to play 75% of what he did 2 years ago.

He’s a prime example of why you don’t overspend on guys that have major surgery (or significant injury) in college. Same for Odrick and so forth. Take your chances in R3 or later – but don’t bet the franchise on an unstable platform.

Jake is great kid and obviously one TUFF dude, but no one can hold up on the OL with one wing and one leg. He’s a power player and can’t lift the way he did to maintain that level of strength. So now he’s a BIG dude with “mobility issues” and reduced horsepower...

I’d trade him for a #1 pick and revamp accordingly. But I don’t think we’d get a #1 for him now. Damaged goods go on sale… So we’re stuck with our 10-zillion dollar OT.

Just goes to show you the “safe play” isn’t always that safe.

BNF.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2011 07:58AM by BigNastyFish.

oops



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/10/2011 08:03AM by BigNastyFish.

It wouldn't suprise me in the least if Sparano ended up being a sucessfull O-Line coach after he leaves Miami. The guy does have talent or he wouldn't be where he is...even the bad one's have talent.

Ginn and Allen were supposed to be saviors at their positions and the supporting cast or scheme around them simply wasen't good enough for them to excel...not to mention the coaching carousel, benchings, position changes, and the impatience of the fans. It' no wonder they didn't do better. They go elsewhere, don't have to endure such intense pressure and play better.

Williams...no question about the talent, but it was time to move on at RB...I'd have kept either him or Brown for one more season though, a replacement would be drafted in 2012 however much as we did in 2011.

Cameron was a good coach and a really good OC who didn't get a chance in Miami...he was expected to re-build, re-tool, and re-stock, a very poor franchise, player wise in one off season...that's an impossible task. No one could have done it and he got scape goated by us fans and the owner.

Wanny always was a good DC but he's just not HC material...no suprise he's doing well once he got back to his roots.

Also, I agree that the culture of the team must change...but we have to start winning for that to happen...the fastest way to get there IMHO is a star quarterback that gets it done in spectacular fashion on the field.

Then, we need the same kind of guy at MLB and one at CB or S.

The WR's we have right now are good but we need them to play better and faster, as a group and be unselfish about it. Our D-Line is good but we have to find a more reliable compliment to Wake and in part time duty Taylor.

We just don't have any "over the top" talent and every team needs at least of those players.

The closest thing we have is Long, Wake, Smith, Marshall, and Davis and they each dissapear too much or aren't playing a position where a huge difference can be made. Then on the rung beneath them we have Thomas, Bush, and Pouncey....Thomas is hurt too much, Bush simply can't get it done all by himself and Pouncey is still learning how to play his position.

We have a really good foundation with this team...we just need to add fire, passion and attitude....on the field.

Henne was doing well this year...glad to see the level of his improvement and he should be kept. But step one needs to be a spectacular QB...that can do great things and do them immediately.

BigNastyFish Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've said before Jake's best days are already
> behind him. I hope he can hold together - but I'd
> like to see him on IR for the balance of the
> season and rehab the knee and shoulder and
> whatever else. Maybe then he'll be able to play
> 75% of what he did 2 years ago.

Good point there BNF.

Right now he looks like he's playing while wearing a straight jacket, and I'd like to see the man heal properly. He was a big investment, & he should be preserved to help protect our new rookie QB next year. This season is already meaningless so it's pointless to have him out there right now degrading his health even more.

Ken, I think you make some good points, and we can rehash the past all we want but the record speaks for itself. This franchise has been vectoring towards decline for many years. We got lucky one year with Pennington and a marshmallow schedule, but we’ve been exposed since then.

One key point I’m going to differ with you on. As many did, I thought this team had a pretty decent stash of talent going into this year, but the results have proven otherwise IMO. Right now there’s isn’t ONE PLAYER on this team playing dominant football, and there are a bunch playing like garbage.

I thought the DL was loaded, but do you see evidence of that on the field? I thought the DB’s where up and coming big-time players – but no evidence of that on the field. The LB’s looked great on paper, but once again – nothing special on the field.

Now some of this we can attribute to bad coaching and/or a serious lack of game-day readiness – but we’re also NOT as talented as expected. In fact, the longer down the line we go the WORSE the recent drafts look. Not a good sign.

I think there's a difference between talent and heart/pride that's showing on the field. I see a lot of players on D who definitely have talent but they're playing like they don't care enough. On D especially, I would argue that the talent is there. We were - until the last game against NE - a top 5 D with high ranks against run and pass last year. The talent isn't much different this year. I can't get myself to believe that Crowder made that much of a difference.

On O, the O-line has killed us the past couple of years. The improved Henne still wasn't good enough when the chips were on the table, but the OL has been the primary culprit for why the O doesn't play to its level of talent. For instance, Fasano is a really good TE but he's helping block more than a TE should be. I do agree that we don't have enough talent on the OL and I lay that at Ireland's feet. Long - love him, but you better get an incredible OL with #1 overall. Pouncey - I think he's going to be really good, but who knows for sure...and too little too late. When you're scrambling around with a reclamation project at LG, your former RT at RG, the worst T in football at RT while Brian Waters is available and subsequently playing incredible football for NE (I focused on him primarily while I watched the NE/NY game last weekend), then you have a talent acquisition problem.

I think weve never had a worst OL than when culpepper was here......


He had like half a second to deliver the football....It was liike nobody was blocking for him.

That was truly pathetic.

eric walden is playing because of injuries. ricky williams is a backup. jason allen still gets torched on a regular basis. bobby carpenter is starting because of injuries. he got torched for chicago's only td last night.

and someone mentioned ted ginn? he had 2 tds in a game. other than that he's the 4th wr in san fran.

i wouldn't call that succeeding elsewhere.

ricky williams 156yrds rushing...mostly in garbage time

ted ginn jr 4 catches for 38yds

I wouldn't classify that as being successful

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> eric walden is playing because of injuries. ricky
> williams is a backup. jason allen still gets
> torched on a regular basis. bobby carpenter is
> starting because of injuries. he got torched for
> chicago's only td last night.
>
My point is these guys are making plays. Carpenter's Int against Dallas was key to Detroit's victory. Without that they very likely lose the game. Jason Allen has had a key Int this year as well. On the other hand, what has OUR team done to key a victory? Oh...wait...we HAVE no victories!!!

As for players playing because of injuries. If the teams are winning games (and in 2 of those cases the teams are undefeated), then injury or no injury, those guys are producing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2011 09:12AM by montequi.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ricky williams 156yrds rushing...mostly in garbage
> time
>
> ted ginn jr 4 catches for 38yds
>
> I wouldn't classify that as being successful

I guess they're living high on the hog then leading their divisions, huh? You're suggesting they've had no impact on their team. I beg to differ.

so you're saying if we still had ginn, williams, allen, walden, cam cameron and dom capers we'd be winning?

that's a good one.

jsm08 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so you're saying if we still had ginn, williams,
> allen, walden, cam cameron and dom capers we'd be
> winning?
>
> that's a good one.

Cam Cameron as OC and Dom Capers as DC? I'd take that, as long as we had a good HC with it.