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          Suck for Luck?
Miami Dolphins Civilized Discussion :  Phins.com Phorums The fastest message board... ever.
This is a moderated phorum for the CIVILIZED discussion of the Miami Dolphins. In this phorum, there are rules and moderators to make sure you abide by the rules. The moderators for this phorum are JC and Colonel
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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: montequi ()
Date: September 28, 2011 10:48AM

berkeley223 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> having followed
> the draft obsessively since the 1980s, I don't
> recall a concensus around a player being a
> onnce-in-a-generation type guy like we are hearing
> about luck. could all these guys be wrong? sure.
> but to compare the hype around luck with the hype
> around other QBs taken high recently, there is no
> comparison.

I recall the hype around Peyton Manning being pretty big. Has the Luck hype exceeded that?

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: ChyrenB ()
Date: September 28, 2011 10:55AM

Wrong, berk! Although there was not this much hype over Alex Smith, there was CERTAINLY as much hype as this over Ryan Leaf.

Maybe, not as early as this but the fact that he was a highly touted pick last year when he decided to stay in school has probably INCREASED the appetite for him unnaturally.

But still, to say there was as much hype over him last year than over Ryan Leaf would be wrong. To say that there is MORE HYPE this year over him than Ryan Leaf would be a toss-up but probably wrong as well.

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: berkeley223 ()
Date: September 28, 2011 11:01AM

I agree that last year the volume of hype around luck is not what it is now. but I disagree that leaf was viewed as the sort of "sure thing" luck is considered now (or maybe even last year, when he'd have been the #1 overall too). while there were some who thought he deserved to go over manning, my recollection is that the majority felt that manning was the better player, with a minority infactuated by leaf's better arm over manning's "average" arm

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 28, 2011 11:53AM


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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Aqua&Orange ()
Date: September 28, 2011 12:19PM

Chyren and Crowder, you guys are wrong.


Here is why....Peyton was seen as having *ZERO* flaws. Ryan Leaf on the other hand had flaws, but, people were infatuated with his physical abilities.

Luck is seen as having *ZERO* flaws, just like Elway and Manning were.

---------------------

"When you suck long enough, you get a Hickey"

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: toko34 ()
Date: September 28, 2011 12:21PM

I have bought my ticket to the Andrew Luck Express, and the Sporano exodus bandwagon...go Chargers!

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 28, 2011 12:46PM


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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 06:15AM

Aqua&Orange Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chyren and Crowder, you guys are wrong.
>
>
> Here is why....Peyton was seen as having *ZERO*
> flaws. Ryan Leaf on the other hand had flaws, but,
> people were infatuated with his physical
> abilities.
>
> Luck is seen as having *ZERO* flaws, just like
> Elway and Manning were.

You are right Peyton was considered more ready and Leaf had more upside due to his physical abilities. But going into it, even Peyton manning thought there was a real possibilities Leaf would go before him, or why would he even have addressed it with Bill Polian before his signing, as he so famously talks about and is quoted.

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 06:22AM


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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 09:16AM

Peyton had alot of questions about whether or not he could win the big one, going into the draft. he came from Tennessee, a storied franchise and never lead them to the promise land. I watch Peyton live twice in college at the swamp, and he never won a game their.. Peyton had his share of naysayers, and that stigma follwed him until he finally won a Superbowl. And as good as Peyton manning is, how many SUperbowls does he have, or SUperbowl Appearances in his entire career, and he said to be one of the best to ever play the game..... While a good QB is important, it is not everything in development of your team obviously. Or we would have won ten superbowls with Marino...You have to build a core of young players on both sides of the ball, with veterans mixed in to add stability and confidnece. And then have consistent play from your QB, and a strong defense and ST. I want to build a team, not one player... Whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen, that is the way i look at it... But to give up on my team or rooting for them to lose, just is not going to happen from this kid in my lifetime.

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 09:29AM


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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 09:43AM

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> manning has two Super Bowl appearances...one
> win...one loss.
>
> He's won double digit games in 11 of his 13
> seasons.
>
> Its a pretty small list of QB's that can make
> either claim at this level, let alone both.

My point exacly, one of the best draft picks in a QB you could ever hope for in the history of the NFL, and he has only 1 superbowl victory in 13 season... That is very telling about all the people obsessed with Luck..... And thinking we should throw it all away.. Dan Marino had zero, and he is one of the best QB draft picks you could ever hope for....

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 09:58AM


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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 10:06AM

I would settle for 1 superbowl win in the next 13 seasons.....And make playoffs numerous times....


We havent been close to the superbowl in the last 26 years and we've been to the playoffs twice i think in the last 12 years or so...Maybe longer.

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 10:07AM

PF2- I agree, a great QB obviously vastly improves your chances. I just dont buy this suck for luck crap. If you finish last in the league, normally their are many more problems then just a QB, and normally a team and staff will get gutted afterwards. That is nothing any fan of the Dolphins should root for.. And more QB's that were first picks in the draft, have never seen a SUperbowl then those that have... SO it still defies logic to me. TIm COuch, David Carr, Alex Smith, Jamarcus Russell, just to name a few recent ones, that went first overall, as the savior of a franchise, and never got them anywhere or their franchise anywhere... You have what John Elway, and Peyton Manning? in 20+ years

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 10:07AM

Phinsfan2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Crowder52 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Phinsfan2 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> >
> > > manning has two Super Bowl appearances...one
> > > win...one loss.
> > >
> > > He's won double digit games in 11 of his 13
> > > seasons.
> > >
> > > Its a pretty small list of QB's that can make
> > > either claim at this level, let alone both.
> >
> > My point exacly, one of the best draft picks in
> a
> > QB you could ever hope for in the history of
> the
> > NFL, and he has only 1 superbowl victory in 13
> > season... That is very telling about all the
> > people obsessed with Luck..... And thinking we
> > should throw it all away.. Dan Marino had zero,
> > and he is one of the best QB draft picks you
> could
> > ever hope for....
>
> That's why NOBODY is claiming that you win
> boatloads of titles once you get a great QB.
> Only that you have the opportunity to do so. Its
> still a team sport. Manning had 11 seasons of 10
> plus wins...how many did Rich Gannon have?
>
> the point is a great QB elevates a mediocre team
> to contention level on a regular basis for a long
> period of time (10-15 years).
>
> It still takes a good front office and coach to
> bring in talent around that QB and win.
>
> And sure you can get the perfect storm where a
> Trent Dilfer wins a title with the greatest
> defense of its generation and a 2,000 yard running
> back.
>
> But the vast majority of Super Bowls over the past
> 20 years have been won by great/franchise QB's,
> not journeymen. And the vast majority those
> winning QB's were high draft picks.
>
> I look at it this way:
>
> - If you have a great QB he'll likely have one or
> two good runs (Conference Championships or better)
> without great talent around him.
>
> - If you have a great QB along with a good/great
> GM and Coach you are going to be in contention
> virtually every season for 10-15 years and will
> have 3-5+ legitimate shots at winning a title.
>
> - You add those 3 pieces when they become
> available. If you pass on them, you may never
> get another shot at one.


BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 10:23AM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Phinsfan2 Wrote:

>
> BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That is probably the same thing San Francisco said after drafting Alex Smith number 1. Or Al Davis and the raiders said after drafting Jamarcus Russell #1. Or Cant you hear cleveland saying it after drafting Tim Couch. Or the ring of B-I-N-G-O after drafting David Carr. or The Lions after drafting Joey Harrington just behind Carr.. Bingo isnt Bingo until you have a trophy in your hand... Mental masturbation about total longshots, becasue your team is 0-3, is like the guy that tucks tail and run when facing adversity. We are Dolphins fans, this type of SUck for Luck from our fans after 3 weeks is another major problem with our organization and fans, that needs to be overcome before any real success... The environment is horrible for success on so many levels with this team, it is hard to not see why they seem distracted..

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 10:34AM


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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Phinsfan2 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 10:44AM


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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 10:58AM

I think you are twisting my logic. I agree with your study on 1st rd qb's. you made me a believer. But by comparison if you did research which i know you have on Qb's picked first overall in the last 25 or so years, there would be many more players that never gave their team 11 season of ten plus wins or a Superbowl victory then those that did. I just think you play hard all season and let the chips fall where they may, tanking a season in an attempt to get one player who is a junior. I just think that is loser's logic, and it is nothing more then quitting, and once you learn how to quit, it is very hard to unlearn that charecteristic or trait it, My problem isnt with drafting luck, it is with quitting to do so. If you want him win some games and trade whatever you need to trade to try and acquire him, but since it is bumper sticker selling..lol....success never begins with quitting, that is as logical as I can explain it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/2011 11:22AM by Crowder52.

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 10:58AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Phinsfan2 Wrote:
>
> >
> > BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> That is probably the same thing San Francisco said
> after drafting Alex Smith number 1. Or Al Davis
> and the raiders said after drafting Jamarcus
> Russell #1. Or Cant you hear cleveland saying it
> after drafting Tim Couch. Or the ring of B-I-N-G-O
> after drafting David Carr. or The Lions after
> drafting Joey Harrington just behind Carr..
> Bingo isnt Bingo until you have a trophy in your
> hand... Mental masturbation about total longshots,
> becasue your team is 0-3, is like the guy that
> tucks tail and run when facing adversity. We are
> Dolphins fans, this type of SUck for Luck from our
> fans after 3 weeks is another major problem with
> our organization and fans, that needs to be
> overcome before any real success... The
> environment is horrible for success on so many
> levels with this team, it is hard to not see why
> they seem distracted..


And when we draft LUCK......................I will be the first one to make a draft party invite allmy friends and get drunk all night....

BTW nobody is distracted....we all know exactly what we want.

1. We want a heralded player with the number 1 pick overall.

2. We want a player who every analYst says is the best player in college football. I think i will trust them because they know more than..................... ME........................grinning smiley

3. We want a BUZZ in the offseason like we've never had.

4. We want a future hall of famer as our QB.

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 11:01AM

BTW this is probably the same thing the colts said when they drafted Payton Manning.......BINNNNNGO

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 11:05AM

phin fan 2 quote the list of qbs that were drafted in the top 5......just recently...Stafford, Ryan, E.Manning, P. Rivers, Roethlisberger, etc etc...


BINGO JACK....

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 11:05AM


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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 11:12AM

Crowder52 a whole lot of negative things have happened to this organization.

Starting with the head coach .....them them wanting hire another coach and he didnt accept the offer. you know the story...

We just want a mayor overhaul....

From the heart of this organization down to the players...I dont care if it takes 5 or 6 years or more....i will be here always..

Weve been a mess for the last 10 years or so....

I want a huge change.

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 11:13AM


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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 11:13AM

Im sick of my team been the laughing stock of the NFL.....

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: Crowder52 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 11:17AM

samsam3738 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I want a huge change.


Change guarantees nothing. We have had lots of huge change over the past ten years and it has guaranteed nothing and lead to constant destruction. The change I want, is stability.

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 11:21AM

Crowder52 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> samsam3738 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > I want a huge change.
>
>
> Change guarantees nothing. We have had lots of
> huge change over the past ten years and it has
> guaranteed nothing and lead to constant
> destruction. The change I want, is stability.

Bring in gruden or cowher and we'll talk in a couple of years

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Re: Suck for Luck?
Posted by: samsam3738 ()
Date: September 29, 2011 11:28AM

wanny cameron saban...whichw was the best but a traitor...or sparano.........are not gruden or cowher..................

Give gruden and cowher complete control and we se a change in a year or two.

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